Cleveland Browns (official thread of Masochism 2015)

[CFPBuckeye]

For some reason I think we've seen Tselanne on this forum before

Some of my first posts here on BP were in this thread, where I immediately encountered some gentleman named Buckscout1111. Before I realized what I was dealing with in a general back and forth, he started to resort to name calling. The guy seemed a bit out of touch with reality, was extremely combative and shortly thereafter received the banhammer for dropping a retard line on @kujirakira in another thread. The guy lasted here for 2 whole days. He can create as many accounts as he wants but the style and manner in which his points are presented seem dead giveaways.

Anyone remember JTB16? He was full of insight on Collier either leaving or quitting. JTB16 happened to exist on this forum for 1 day, January 9th...the same day Mr. Buckscout1111 was banned. JTB16 did manage a remarkable 28 posts that day and they contained more valuable insight in to football operations and realities than I could gain if I spent the entire day in Urban's office. Miss that guy.

 

[Mike80]

Some of my first posts here on BP were in this thread, where I immediately encountered some gentleman named Buckscout1111. Before I realized what I was dealing with in a general back and forth, he started to resort to name calling. The guy seemed a bit out of touch with reality, was extremely combative and shortly thereafter received the banhammer for dropping a retard line on @kujirakira in another thread. The guy lasted here for 2 whole days. He can create as many accounts as he wants but the style and manner in which his points are presented seem dead giveaways.

Anyone remember JTB16? He was full of insight on Collier either leaving or quitting. JTB16 happened to exist on this forum for 1 day...January 9th. The same day Mr. Buckscout1111 was banned. JTB16 did manage a remarkable 28 posts that day and they contained more valuable insight in to football operations and realities than I could gain if I spent the entire day in Urban's office. Miss that guy.

JTB buckscout tselanne foligno nfoligno are all the same guy....

 

[CFPBuckeye]

JTB buckscout tselanne foligno nfoligno are all the same guy....

Ha! Indeed. I hope I didn't come off as being that dense. I had that part figured out. Just recalling how pleasant a person they all were/are. I was called a "clown" in the Browns thread. Oh, the irony.

Edit: Oh, and I think we should fire Thad Matta...

 

[wadc45]

Big fan of Owamagbe Odighizuwa, despite the injury history.

I would be okay with the firs three picks looking like Danny Shelton, Erreck Flowers, best WR available (DGB? Perriman?). Or DeVante Parker, Eddie Goldman, Owamagbe Odighizuwa.

I don't see a way to get Parker and Shelton at 12 and 19 although more than one draft analyst has the Browns going that route. That would be ideal to me but I don't think it will be possible.

I just wanted to see them address WR, DT and OL with the first three picks if feasible. I saw one today that had them going Shelton, D.J. Humphries and then Sammie Coates in the second. I don't love that but I could still live with it. Drafttek currently has them taking Shelton, Bud Dupree and Denzel Perryman to revamp most of the front seven. I don't love that but I could certainly learn to live with it.

Bottom line is don't do anything stupid. Wait, I realize who I'm talking to...

 

[CFPBuckeye]

Big fan of Owamagbe Odighizuwa, despite the injury history.

I would be okay with the firs three picks looking like Danny Shelton, Erreck Flowers, best WR available (DGB? Perriman?). Or DeVante Parker, Eddie Goldman, Owamagbe Odighizuwa.

I don't see a way to get Parker and Shelton at 12 and 19 although more than one draft analyst has the Browns going that route. That would be ideal to me but I don't think it will be possible.

I just wanted to see them address WR, DT and OL with the first three picks if feasible. I saw one today that had them going Shelton, D.J. Humphries and then Sammie Coates in the second. I don't love that but I could still live with it. Drafttek currently has them taking Shelton, Bud Dupree and Denzel Perryman to revamp most of the front seven. I don't love that but I could certainly learn to live with it.

Bottom line is don't do anything stupid. Wait, I realize who I'm talking to...

Completely agree on the first bolded section. If they addressed just the front seven, I too, would definitely live with that. The linemen aren't the sexy picks in most cases but it's definitely where to start if you look to win games. Linemen, linemen and maybe more linemen and then fill out the rest of the roster (either when guys fall to us that can't be passed up or in the coming years after we've built depth on the lines) when the guys added can come in and function better thanks to more skilled/assertive lines and more time/freedom to operate. Probably isn't most effective way to win in the short term but we've been doing the same 4 win dance most years anyway (with a slightly more successful or less successful year peppered in) so the approach we've been taking hasn't really been working. I'd take a couple more 4 win seasons if it meant an extended period of success in the years following. All the skill players in the world aren't going to help if our offense gets blown up in the backfield or if our defense generates zero pass rush. I'm not saying to comepletely ignore all positions NOT OL and DL but just to only take a WR or other skill position of you truly feel he is worth it rather than just take best available WR just because we need WR. If a guy is sitting there when we pick and he is a true game breaker an can be a solid part of our team for years to come, by all means, take him. Just don't go reaching because we are thin and desperate at a position if the guy isn't worth the spot we are picking at.

However, as you pointed out at the end of your post...guess what the Browns probably won't do? That, or they go that route, only they draft the guys that other teams won't touch based off of off field issues/injury histories and the Browns will try and "outsmart" the other teams. Because if there is one thing the Browns do best...it's show how much smarter they are than the rest of the league.

 

[Buckeneye]

I may be in the minority of wondering why address the Oline with a first round pick? When Mack was healthy this was the top line in the league. Even when Seymour started finding his feet they were good, until we lost yet our 2nd center.

I don't see a need for a starting caliber lineman that early. I see a need for quality depth that can be had in the mid rounds. (God forbid) somebody should go down with injury, I want to know that we can replace that player without reshuffling the deck. Mitch gets a bit more venom thrown his way than deservedly so. He graded just outside the top 10 in RT's this year.

I'd prefer to see Dline, WR, OLB as our first few priorities.

 

[CFPBuckeye]

I may be in the minority of wondering why address the Oline with a first round pick? When Mack was healthy this was the top line in the league. Even when Seymour started finding his feet they were good, until we lost yet our 2nd center.

I don't see a need for a starting caliber lineman that early. I see a need for quality depth that can be had in the mid rounds. (God forbid) somebody should go down with injury, I want to know that we can replace that player without reshuffling the deck. Mitch gets a bit more venom thrown his way than deservedly so. He graded just outside the top 10 in RT's this year.

I'd prefer to see Dline, WR, OLB as our first few priorities.

Disclaimer: I'm definitely not a professional GM. (Although many of times I feel I could do a better job than Cleveland)

It doesn't have to be OL in the first. I'd take DL in the first as well and of course any player who is worth the draft spot but I'm just a fan of really addressing the lines first and foremost. Our best 2 linemen (Thomas and Mack) are first rounders. I'd like to see more guys of their calibur across both the OL and DL. When Mack went down, the season went down with him. I wouldn't put you in the minority. Hell, most of the time I figure I'm the one in the minority. We all have different visions for how we feel the Browns should try and build a solid team.

 

[ArmyVet83]

I sure hope the FO don't do something stupid but at this point I'm not holding my breath. They MUST improve against the run; more weapons esp. @ WR, and depth/upgrade on the OL. It has been difficult to identify who falls where in this draft. IMO, the IDEAL situation would be:

12 - Kevin White / WR
19 - Danny Shelton / DT
2nd round - Ereck Flowers, OT

Granted it's a BIG reach that White will not be there at 12 (most mocks have him going in the TOP 10). Realistic- Shelton should be the pick here.

Shelton picked at 12 so the pick at 19 should be OL or WR. Some mocks have Parker being available but I think he will be gone so the pick here will be OT. Either Flowers, Peat or Collins.

The 2nd round pick should be WR. In order of preference Jalen Strong, Devin Smith or Nelson Agholor. (While the talent is there DGB is too risky and I'm not sold on Perrimen)

 

[Buckeneye]

Disclaimer: I'm definitely not a professional GM. (Although many of times I feel I could do a better job than Cleveland)

It doesn't have to be OL in the first. I'd take DL in the first as well and of course any player who is worth the draft spot but I'm just a fan of really addressing the lines first and foremost. Our best 2 linemen (Thomas and Mack) are first rounders. I'd like to see more guys of their calibur across both the OL and DL. When Mack went down, the season went down with him. I wouldn't put you in the minority. We all have different visions for how we feel the Browns should try and build a solid team.

Addressing the bold - I'd put the collective knowledge and common sense of the posters in the Browns thread against any previous front office regime this team has had since 99'. Hell, I'd be willing to put them up against the current Front office (That's if you truly believe Manziel was Farmer's #1 QB prospect)

We agree on the lines. Strength in the trenches = a strong team. I believe we all share a common vision, we may disagree on where to take those players.

However, my stance isn't changing on Dupree. That guy is the next Gholston. Which is upsetting to say as I don't like knocking a Buckeye, but his abilities (lack of) scare me.

 

[CFPBuckeye]

Addressing the bold - I'd put the collective knowledge and common sense of the posters in the Browns thread against any previous front office regime this team has had since 99'. Hell, I'd be willing to put them up against the current Front office (That's if you truly believe Manziel was Farmer's #1 QB prospect)

We agree on the lines. Strength in the trenches = a strong team. I believe we all share a common vision, we may disagree on where to take those players.

However, my stance isn't changing on Dupree. That guy is the next Gholston. Which is upsetting to say as I don't like knocking a Buckeye, but his abilities (lack of) scare me.

Certainly, that is possible. I'd just like to clarify that I'm not a "has to be an OL or DL or nothing!" guy. If Kevin White is there at 12 and the Browns take him, I won't be crying. I feel he is worth that spot. Then, I'd like linemen for the other first and the second. I'm assuming your comments on Dupree are not necessarily geared toward me since I haven't mentioned him. I honestly don't know much about him so I'll take your word/analysis for it. I'm just speaking generally of how to build by drafting guys in those areas that do have the qualities to be successful. Dupree may not be one of them.

My approach though, is line-centric and then fill the remaining holes once depth is there.

 

[ArmyVet83]

Addressing the bold - I'd put the collective knowledge and common sense of the posters in the Browns thread against any previous front office regime this team has had since 99'. Hell, I'd be willing to put them up against the current Front office (That's if you truly believe Manziel was Farmer's #1 QB prospect)

We agree on the lines. Strength in the trenches = a strong team. I believe we all share a common vision, we may disagree on where to take those players.

However, my stance isn't changing on Dupree. That guy is the next Gholston. Which is upsetting to say as I don't like knocking a Buckeye, but his abilities (lack of) scare me.

Agree on Dupree. I don't think he is a fit for the 3-4 as an DE or LB. Armstead is an ideal end in this scheme but the Browns need a block eater like Shelton.

 

[jlb1705]

I used to be a "best player available regardless of position" kind of guy. That's clearly asking too much. Just give me one draft where the Browns take nothing but guys who at least on paper are remotely worth their draft position, and I'll be happy. They can all bust for all I care as long as the initial reasoning was sound and avoidance of spectacular failure was at least plausible.

I just want one draft where the experts are saying, "OK, I get it" instead of "HEY EVERYBODY LOOK WHAT THE FUCKING BROWNS DID THERE." Not drafting celebrity alcoholics on the advice of a random homeless person would be a good start. A lot of Browns fans would be bored by that, but I would take it in a heartbeat.

 

[CFPBuckeye]

I used to be a "best player available regardless of position" kind of guy. That's clearly asking too much. Just give me one draft where the Browns take nothing but guys who at least on paper are remotely worth their draft position, and I'll be happy. They can all bust for all I care as long as the initial reasoning was sound and avoidance of spectacular failure was at least plausible.

I just want one draft where the experts are saying, "OK, I get it" instead of "HEY EVERYBODY LOOK WHAT THE FUCKING BROWNS DID THERE." Not drafting celebrity alcoholics on the advice of a random homeless person would be a good start. A lot of Browns fans would be bored by that, but I would take it in a heartbeat.

It's almost certainly not as boring as my draft philosophy, so as you can imagine, sign me up. Sound logic behind an entire draft is all and most assuredly MORE than we can ask for.

 

[Buckeneye]

Agree on Dupree. I don't think he is a fit for the 3-4 as an DE or LB. Armstead is an ideal end in this scheme but the Browns need a block eater like Shelton.

I don't get the hype behind this kid. I mean, he was mauled by the Bucks oline - bad. Aside from a decent outing against Texas last year, he's another over hyped Oregon product not unlike Dion Jordan.

I used to be a "best player available regardless of position" kind of guy. That's clearly asking too much. Just give me one draft where the Browns take nothing but guys who at least on paper are remotely worth their draft position, and I'll be happy. They can all bust for all I care as long as the initial reasoning was sound and avoidance of spectacular failure was at least plausible.

I just want one draft where the experts are saying, "OK, I get it" instead of "HEY EVERYBODY LOOK WHAT THE FUCKING BROWNS DID THERE." Not drafting celebrity alcoholics on the advice of a random homeless person would be a good start. A lot of Browns fans would be bored by that, but I would take it in a heartbeat.

I'd say that's pretty much /thread. For me.

 

[wadc45]

I'd say that's pretty much /thread. For me.

Agreed...as we've been saying, the Browns need to take the "just don't fuck it up" approach, which has not been their draft strategy of late.