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- Thread starter wadc45
- Start date
DZ83CK
Not Banned
Baker is better than what the Browns have had in decades, but he's still not a top-10 QB in the league. I'm not opposed to keeping him, but paying him $30+ million would be a mistake. If they can re-sign him for $25-28 million a year, that would be about the limit of what I would agree to.
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Remember the last time the Clowns has SuperBowl aspirations? It was 1995. The previous season they went 11-5 and won a playoff game after several bad seasons. They spent big in free agency to try to get over the hump. That 1995 team started out 3-1 then injuries and underperformance plagued them and they collapsed on the way to a 5-11 finish. It's looking like a strong possibility this season follows a similar arc. Somebody try to convince me this franchise isn't cursed. 
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NorthCoastKid
Legend
Let's just gloss over the fact that the '95 team also had to contend with having the rug pulled out from under them regarding the move.
Not willing to bury these guys just yet.
Not willing to bury these guys just yet.
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ScriptOhio
Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.
Yes it would, but even some mediocre (or worse) QBs are getting paid in the $30M or above range:
Jared Goff - $33.5 Million
Kirk Cousins - $33 Million
Carson Wentz - $32 Million
Matt Ryan - $ 30 Million
Ryan Tannehill - $29.5 Million
To help pay for Mayfield's next contract, the Browns could easily clear $15M cap space for next 2 years by jettisoning Odell Beckham before 1 June 2022.....
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DZ83CK
Not Banned
Good point, but I would at least take a couple of those guys over Baker. Certainly Goff and Wentz are vastly overpaid based on a short sample size where they played well.Yes it would, but even some mediocre (or worse) QBs are getting paid in the $30M or above range:
Jared Goff - $33.5 Million
Kirk Cousins - $33 Million
Carson Wentz - $32 Million
Matt Ryan - $ 30 Million
Ryan Tannehill - $29.5 Million
To help pay for Mayfield's next contract, the Browns could easily clear $15M cap space for next 2 years by jettisoning Odell Beckham before 1 June 2022.....
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Given the future growth of the cap it will be hard to pay him less than 30M, but I think 25-30 with 5-10 of incentives is fair. If he plays well he gets paid more. If he is a game manager he gets paid like one. A couple of the guys on that list make the case for not breaking the bank on a guy like Baker.
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LitlBuck
Kevin Warren is an ass
I know that you are not a Baker fan but that statement is one of your funnier ones. Baker is the leader of the Browns and no one is going to take his place. To take QB numbers from 4 years ago when guys played on separate teams using separate systems with quite a bit of different personnel is just silly. I am sure that you were a big Lamar Jackson fan when he was drafted by the Ratbirds and thought that the Browns should have taken him. That is just the way you articulate yourself.
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Buckeneye
I lead, you follow.
Not all jokes are funny.
"leader" is about as often an overused cliche' as "winner". And you're wrong, because with the way Baker has been playing all year, there are a good handful of QB's who could take his place and the offense would respond to well.
This is more about Bakers attitude and mindset being perceived as a "Cleveland type of guy", then actual results. You still have a large contingent of the Browns fanbase blaming Odell for the loss this past Sunday because of one Ill-timed drop. Ignoring completely the 3 turnovers on the CLE side of the field that buried this team. Also hilarious because I said to my friends when watching the game, the Odell chants will grow louder now because that will be the lightning rod focus. We'll forget about all the miss-fires from our QB before hand because as fans, they might be afraid to admit the truth. We want to associate our QB with being a rough, tough, blue collar type and I get that. But the tough guy persona has put Baker directly where he is - in a shoulder sling. If Russell Wilson was traded for Baker straight up, you're little "No OnE iS gOiNg To tAkE hIs PlAcE" ends up being pretty laughable. What you meant to say was, "Case Keenum won't take his place". And you're right, this season he won't nor any other QB for that matter, barring a Madden type trade that simply won't happen.
Separate teams that just so happened to use similar personnel and roles, play call strings, language, structure, run:pass ratio and... wait for it, SIMILAR OFFENSIVE PLAY CALLERS WHO WERE ON THE VIKINGS STAFF AT THE SAME TIME.
It actually doesn't get more apples to apples.
I'd be happy to do a personnel equation chart if I didn't think it would be completely lost on you. The fact you seemingly forget that Stef was QB coach and Co-OC for that Vikings squad and now our HC and play caller means I'm really just wasting my time, but I'll keep typing. The similarties between him and Shurmur's offenses are glaring, Case Keenum even confirmed this.
Speaking of run pass ratio, I just googled that whilst I was typing.
2017 Vikings
48.74% to 51.26%
2020 Browns
49.7% 50.3%
Laughed at the Lamar pick because I knew exactly how Greg Roman would have to structure his offense in order to make them effective. To the Ravens credit, it has worked an absolute treat - in the regular season. The early part of LJ's career has been equivalent to the early playoff runs from Peyton Manning, the difference between Peyton and Lamar is that the latter is carried by his legs. And to Lamar's credit, he has done a decent enough job staying healthy but he is taking more carries and shots than ever this year. The idea of investing in a 1st round QB is to have him as a 10 year mainstay. But he's a wrong plant away from a career altering ACL tear. You're welcome to search my posts about his first playoff game, called my shot on what the San Diego defense was going to do to him. Followed that up with a laugher the very next season when Tennessee copied the exact same defensive gameplan which only highlighted Lamar's lack of growth as a passer.
I'm a Browns fan, first and foremost, the players come second. But I'm also a man possessed of introspection re: this team. I was at Bakers last home game his rookie year, in the 2nd level, freezing ass cold chanting "BA-KER" at the top of my lungs against the Bengals. Because I so desperately wanted to believe this team had found the long-term answer to our QB issues. But I'm not willing to hold onto belief when evidence shows the contrary, because that's cult level shit. And this ain't Penn State.
I'm a pragmatic mind and if my QB has become a turnover machine while the backup can at least run most of the playbook while NOT throwing picks? yeah... THAT is the fucking "silly" stance to take.
You're over your head calling me out on this.
edit: Because I don't want to hear about "AD HOMINEM"
2017 Case
325 for 481, 3,547 yards, 22 td, 7 int, & 40 rushes for 160 yards and 1 td
2020 Baker
305 for 486, 3,563 yards, 26 td, 8 int, & 54 rushes for 165 yards and 1 td
They are within a percentage of each other in almost every category. Attempts, completions, yards, TD's and INT's. Hell the rush numbers are damn near the same. Only difference is the compiled Oline grades for the 2020 Browns are a bit better than the 2017 Vikings.
SOS
2017 Vikings
T-27
2020 Browns
T-24th
RB's -
2020 Browns
Nick Chubb* 190 rushes for 1,067 yards, 12 td, & 16 catches for 150 yards and 0 td
Kareem Hunt* 198rushes for 841 yards 6td 38rec 304yards 5tds
2017 Vikings
Latavius Murray* -216 rushes 842yards 8tds 15recs for 103yards 0tds
Dalvin Cook - 74rushes 354yards 2tds 11recs 90yards 0tds
Cook suffered an ACL tear 3/4 through the week 4 game. His extrapolated numbers using an average of what he was on track for 1184 yards.
That means the Browns top 2 RB's in 2020 had a combined 1,908 yards rushing.
Also a combined 454 yards receiving
Vikings top 2 RB's in 2017 would have had 2026 combined yards rushing
Also would have had a combined 463 yards combined (projected total)
I was going to do the receivers and TE's next along with compiled Oline grades, but those numbers are so damn similar right there, I decided to not even bother.
Circle back around to my last sentence before the edit: I'd also be interested in what other "funny" statements I can clear up for you.
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I'm lowering my expectations to subterranean levels for tonight's game. Expecting to see false starts, bad turnovers, and an inability to run the ball against 8 men in the box on offense. On defense, somewhat better but expect we will see 3rd down conversions galore and stupid face mask and PI penalties. You know, like the Browns. And this Denver team is not good, so that will make the horror even worse. Ugh.
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