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Cleveland Browns (2017 Thread of Chlamydia)

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wadc45 said:
Early mock draft from CBS has them taking Mason Rudolph and Saquan Barkley. I could live with that. Walter Football has them taking Sam Darnold and Christian Kirk. I cannot live with that.
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They will do neither. They'll out-think themselves by trading down for more picks in the later rounds, before trading up to take a worse version of someone they could have had already if they had just used their fucking picks like a team with a billion holes on the roster that need to be filled. My guess? They trade down from taking Barkley and later trade up to take Ty Isaac
 
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wadc45 said:
Early mock draft from CBS has them taking Mason Rudolph and Saquan Barkley. I could live with that. Walter Football has them taking Sam Darnold and Christian Kirk. I cannot live with that.
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks said:
They will do neither. They'll out-think themselves by trading down for more picks in the later rounds, before trading up to take a worse version of someone they could have had already if they had just used their fucking picks like a team with a billion holes on the roster that need to be filled. My guess? They trade down from taking Barkley and later trade up to take Ty Isaac
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Any way you cut it, they sure as hell won't draft any Buckeyes.
 
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buckeyebri said:
Ok, let's say that they have a good OL. Then why do their QBs continue to get hurt and struggle year in and year out? Maybe they hold the ball too long? Maybe the WRs don't get separation? Maybe the QBs just suck? Maybe it is a combination of all these items? I don't know. Not having a running game is an issue. However, other teams have shown that a running game is not the be all end all in the NFL. I do know that when you're on your 100th QB in 20 years there is an organizational issue....
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the fact that qb's stand back there for hours and crowell runs into the back of his OL are primary reasons. of course, there's the fact that you are complaining about the OL right now, after the browns signed zeitler and tretter this past offseason, while using injuries from prior seasons.
 
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tsteele316 said:
the fact that qb's stand back there for hours and crowell runs into the back of his OL are primary reasons. of course, there's the fact that you are complaining about the OL right now, after the browns signed zeitler and tretter this past offseason, while using injuries from prior seasons.
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So they have a decent OL this year, that hasn't always been the case. My point was more towards what has been a long term ill and why they haven't been able to develop a QB. Granted the QB draft choices in the past have been bad as well, but when you have QB after QB getting hauled off on stretchers that's an issue. Now they need to develop someone. Wentz looks like the real deal, but how bad would he have gotten beat up last year in the process. I'll hang up and listen.
 
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buckeyebri said:
So they have a decent OL this year, that hasn't always been the case. My point was more towards what has been a long term ill and why they haven't been able to develop a QB. Granted the QB draft choices in the past have been bad as well, but when you have QB after QB getting hauled off on stretchers that's an issue. Now they need to develop someone. Wentz looks like the real deal, but how bad would he have gotten beat up last year in the process. I'll hang up and listen.
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I've always been of the mind that if you're rebuilding (as the clowns have been for 18 years), you build a foundation first...OL, a decent running game, and at least some targets to throw the ball to before you invest in your "QB of the future." Throwing a young QB, especially one that needs time to develop is counter-productive. But, they have insisted on doing it time and again. Of all the QBs they've invested high draft picks in (Couch/Quinn/Weeden/Manziel), I'd argue that Couch was the only one that was anywhere close to being NFL ready. Quinn probably lacked the talent, then did himself a huge disservice holding out as a rookie. Weeden was an absurd pick being that he was almost 30. Manziel was a terrible idea from the start for any number of reasons.

Couch was tossed to the wolves immediately with an awful team around him, and though he occasionally showed glimpses of what he could become, his career was derailed by injuries and probably shellshock from playing behind a woeful OL and having no running game to ease the pressure.

They actually showed some patience with Quinn, not turning to him until November of his 2nd season. Derek Anderson allowed that as he seemed to seize the job in 2007, but totally imploded in 2008 necessitating a change. Quinn never showed many signs of being an NFL QB, but he wasn't done any favors as when they tossed him out there, he was surrounded by a gaggle of scrubs.

Weeden was a bizarre pick from the start. Most QBs his age were already in their 5-6th NFL season, and he came from a shotgun-exclusive passing spread offense at Okie State. He seemed like a Hail-Mary by Holmgren to try to salvage his job. They of course put him under center behind a terrible OL with no real running game to speak of. He showed few signs of being a capable NFL QB and was benched early in year two, and out the door by year three.

Manziel's saga is well documented, so I'm not inclined to type it all out. Needless to say, it was another wasted pick.

In short, I'm not sure any of countless star QBs they passed on would amount to much on the talentless clowns squads that have shit all over Lake Erie's shoreline for almost two decades.
 
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NFBuck said:
I've always been of the mind that if you're rebuilding (as the clowns have been for 18 years), you build a foundation first...OL, a decent running game, and at least some targets to throw the ball to before you invest in your "QB of the future." Throwing a young QB, especially one that needs time to develop is counter-productive. But, they have insisted on doing it time and again. Of all the QBs they've invested high draft picks in (Couch/Quinn/Weeden/Manziel), I'd argue that Couch was the only one that was anywhere close to being NFL ready. Quinn probably lacked the talent, then did himself a huge disservice holding out as a rookie. Weeden was an absurd pick being that he was almost 30. Manziel was a terrible idea from the start for any number of reasons.

Couch was tossed to the wolves immediately with an awful team around him, and though he occasionally showed glimpses of what he could become, his career was derailed by injuries and probably shellshock from playing behind a woeful OL and having no running game to ease the pressure.

They actually showed some patience with Quinn, not turning to him until November of his 2nd season. Derek Anderson allowed that as he seemed to seize the job in 2007, but totally imploded in 2008 necessitating a change. Quinn never showed many signs of being an NFL QB, but he wasn't done any favors as when they tossed him out there, he was surrounded by a gaggle of scrubs.

Weeden was a bizarre pick from the start. Most QBs his age were already in their 5-6th NFL season, and he came from a shotgun-exclusive passing spread offense at Okie State. He seemed like a Hail-Mary by Holmgren to try to salvage his job. They of course put him under center behind a terrible OL with no real running game to speak of. He showed few signs of being a capable NFL QB and was benched early in year two, and out the door by year three.

Manziel's saga is well documented, so I'm not inclined to type it all out. Needless to say, it was another wasted pick.

In short, I'm not sure any of countless star QBs they passed on would amount to much on the talentless clowns squads that have [Mark May] all over Lake Erie's shoreline for almost two decades.
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This. They haven't truly invested a high end pick on a QB since couch. They've all been late 1st round or later grasping at straws.

As for darnold, he's playing on a team with a poor ol and bad (more young) playmakers with an idiot head coach. I don't know if there is a more seamless transition than going to Cleveland.
 
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tsteele316 said:
This. They haven't truly invested a high end pick on a QB since couch. They've all been late 1st round or later grasping at straws.

As for darnold, he's playing on a team with a poor ol and bad (more young) playmakers with an idiot head coach. I don't know if there is a more seamless transition than going to Cleveland.
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Darnold has BUST written all over him. He has janky mechanics and he trusts his arm too much. He'll be a turnover machine in the NFL, and if whoever drafts him has any hope of him not going tits up, he needs to sit for a year or two.

The clowns QB strategy seems to be not really having one. First round busts aside, they even take their lower picks and tossed them to the wolves way too early. Frey, McCoy, Kessler now Kizer...all somewhat early picks that should have been allowed to sit for a year or two were given the keys to Chevettes in their rookie years. What was the benefit of starting Kizer from day one? He showed glaring flaws in the preseason, yet there he is in week one starting. Zero reason to start him this year. None. Instead of being patient and actually, you know, developing him, they have to rip open the box on their shiny new toy and toss it down the stairs. This franchise has not had one sound football mind...not one...in eighteen years.
 
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NFBuck said:
I've always been of the mind that if you're rebuilding (as the clowns have been for 18 years), you build a foundation first...OL, a decent running game, and at least some targets to throw the ball to before you invest in your "QB of the future." Throwing a young QB, especially one that needs time to develop is counter-productive. But, they have insisted on doing it time and again. Of all the QBs they've invested high draft picks in (Couch/Quinn/Weeden/Manziel), I'd argue that Couch was the only one that was anywhere close to being NFL ready. Quinn probably lacked the talent, then did himself a huge disservice holding out as a rookie. Weeden was an absurd pick being that he was almost 30. Manziel was a terrible idea from the start for any number of reasons.

Couch was tossed to the wolves immediately with an awful team around him, and though he occasionally showed glimpses of what he could become, his career was derailed by injuries and probably shellshock from playing behind a woeful OL and having no running game to ease the pressure.

They actually showed some patience with Quinn, not turning to him until November of his 2nd season. Derek Anderson allowed that as he seemed to seize the job in 2007, but totally imploded in 2008 necessitating a change. Quinn never showed many signs of being an NFL QB, but he wasn't done any favors as when they tossed him out there, he was surrounded by a gaggle of scrubs.

Weeden was a bizarre pick from the start. Most QBs his age were already in their 5-6th NFL season, and he came from a shotgun-exclusive passing spread offense at Okie State. He seemed like a Hail-Mary by Holmgren to try to salvage his job. They of course put him under center behind a terrible OL with no real running game to speak of. He showed few signs of being a capable NFL QB and was benched early in year two, and out the door by year three.

Manziel's saga is well documented, so I'm not inclined to type it all out. Needless to say, it was another wasted pick.

In short, I'm not sure any of countless star QBs they passed on would amount to much on the talentless clowns squads that have [Mark May] all over Lake Erie's shoreline for almost two decades.
Click to expand...

Quinn was always over-rated... like every ND QB since the forward pass.
Browns aside - just look at Denver. Couldnt beat out Kyle Orton, fell farther behind Tebow. The fact that the Broncos even drafted Tebow underscored their in-house eval of Quinn.
He again only found confidence from Crennel is KC where he was a backup. The rest of his career is a string of getting beaten out, even for the #2 job, by the likes of Tavaris Jackon, Garrard, Clemens ... and not even making the roster of numerous teams.
 
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