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Chris Holtmann (ex-tOSU Bball coach, HC at DePaul)

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AuTX Buckeye said:
There is a comment posted by Jeff Goodman …. didn’t wanna link because i’m pretty sure it was for clicks but i’ll paste the screenshot
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and a good retort…. now I know this dude is a troll and a half but he’s not wrong
View attachment 34485
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Yes we all want a higher standard...but that takes time. Matta couldn't maintain his heights, although I do think his health issues played into it at some point. Back issues suck.

What really sucks for CH is he's following the all time coach at the school. Much like Ron Zook following Spurrier. And it's not particularly close either. Maybe CH needs to be that sacrificial lamb until someone better comes along? Who knows?

People saying anyone could do better than CH means batting above Ohio State's historical average. For whatever it's worth, I view CH as around that average, although his winning percentage coming into this season was only 2nd to Matta's (program winning pct is 61.3%, CH was around 67% to begin the year). I think the screaming about Big Ten titles is a little much again, given the non-Matta history of the program. I swear some of the people screaming the loudest think Matta won 80% of his games, won the Big Ten every year and went to the Elite 8 every other year. You get that impression as you see these posts roll in from certain media members.

I'm not sure what Matta did is sustainable given the lack of in-state talent and seemingly a lack of a want (from the school or AD or both) to really get into the recruiting wars in basketball. Even Matta himself got away from that rat race and was famously burned by one of his last full recruiting classes.

Whatever is done, I think the words of caution are warranted. I doubt the OSU AD does anything quickly and given what his likely goals are and have been, because had he not been meeting them prior to this season, the extension wouldn't have happened. This season's results are plainly unacceptable and there's no debate on that point. 1 bad season after meeting your employment goals every other year typically doesn't lead to a firing however. And to reiterate - if he makes jbook or Dave Biddle uncomfortable or miserable, all the better.

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I'm kind of confused by this "one bad year" talk I keep seeing. He's had one good year (first year) and after that two bad years and you could argue, at best, three average years. Going 20-15, 8-12, and finishing 8th in your conference (second year) has to qualify as a down year at Ohio State.

It comes down to expectations; do you expect more out of this program? If so, is Holtmann the coach to do it? Personally, I expect more and at this point I'm seriously doubting CCH is capable of that. And to be clear, more to me means .500+ in conference and making it to the second weekend at least once every three years. That's a manageable expectation imo.
 
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bigdog3300 said:
I'm kind of confused by this "one bad year" talk I keep seeing. He's had one good year (first year) and after that two bad years and you could argue, at best, three average years. Going 20-15, 8-12, and finishing 8th in your conference (second year) has to qualify as a down year at Ohio State.

It comes down to expectations; do you expect more out of this program? If so, is Holtmann the coach to do it? Personally, I expect more and at this point I'm seriously doubting CCH is capable of that. And to be clear, more to me means .500+ in conference and making it to the second weekend at least once every three years. That's a manageable expectation imo.
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For me, it's in relation to what is the likeliest goals set forth by his employer. We are all going to have different definitions what what good, bad or average is...but our opinions don't matter a damn bit to a machine like the Ohio State athletic department.

I'm totally using the extension as a way to say he's met his goals which means, to the AD, BOT and whoever else has anything to do with his contract, he had "good" years. It's got nothing to do with fan expectations. I again point out that making it to the 2nd weekend of the tournament, as in the sweet 16, 1 out of every 3 years has only been accomplished with regularity 1 time in the program's history since the tournament went to 32 teams in 1975. Not that it isn't attainable, I just don't think it's realistic given what appears to be a reluctance by everyone to shoot for the true 1-and-dones and all of the rest of the super elite recruits and the game you have to play to get them.

Personally, I think 3 out of his first 5 years were more or less average in terms of where the program has been historically with his first year being what I think anyone would say is good under those circumstances. I don't count 2020 because we didn't see it end.

It is what it is.
 
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bigdog3300 said:
I'm kind of confused by this "one bad year" talk I keep seeing. He's had one good year (first year) and after that two bad years and you could argue, at best, three average years. Going 20-15, 8-12, and finishing 8th in your conference (second year) has to qualify as a down year at Ohio State.

It comes down to expectations; do you expect more out of this program? If so, is Holtmann the coach to do it? Personally, I expect more and at this point I'm seriously doubting CCH is capable of that. And to be clear, more to me means .500+ in conference and making it to the second weekend at least once every three years. That's a manageable expectation imo.
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He's had some good times, just not great times. The first year with Thad's players might have been the best team he's had, and they were a #4 seed. They did earn a #2 seed in 2021 - and promptly got beat by #15 Oral Roberts. Regardless, earning a #2 seed takes a good season. The 2020 season was good,, not great. He's had three what I would call good seasons, but no great seasons. 2019 and 2022 were mediocre at best. Losing 10 games to me is an indicator that you didn't have a truly great season, and that's every year with his players.
 
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The fact that the B1G has been the best top to bottom conference for the past decade definitely should have an influence on how people look at the records as well not just win percentages and banners. Yes, this year is fucking atrocious but his overall performance has been pretty good outside of runs in the big tourney. Losing Branham obviously hurt a hell of a lot more than we thought it would this season and something about the finals break every December completely fucks this team up. Every time. This year the players just fell apart from what they were in the beginning. He might actually be too nice when it comes down to it so when he does get fiery, which is rare, the players can't handle it. Hell I don't know. Outside of this season I've been very optimistic about him being at Ohio State for everything he does for the university, the community and the other coaching staffs.
 
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NFBuck said:
Yep. Not to mention the black eye Gene would wear from firing right after extending him. I'd love to just move on now, but I'm okay with letting him have a year to finally get over that hump. Especially with the class he has coming in. But, if next year isn't a doozy, I hope he has the apples to move on.

Not for nuthin', but Simple Jim up north was widely maligned for his first six seasons before having a breakout of sorts in year seven. Maybe CH does the same.
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CH needs to learn how to build a team before he can see a breakout year - clearly he has no clue about what he's looking for or likes taking the low hanging fruit transfers because it's easy to recruit them.
 
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I know Jeff Goodman mentioned the, "who would do better?", line in his tweet previously.

If it was me, I would absolutely be seeing if Sean Miller was interested in the job. Grew up just outside the state, major program experience, overperforming at Xavier, major chip on his shoulder, etc.

He was cleared of any wrongdoing (surprisingly, to me at least) so he will be heavily pursued by major programs. Will he leave Xavier for a major P5 job? I would think so. There would likely be major competition for him - after that, I don't have any other idea who would be "better" like Goodman stated, but Miller is the only one I can foreseeably see that would not be a gamble.
 
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NJ-Buckeye said:
Wonder why more contracts (coaches and pro athletes) aren't performance based bonused... Simple base rate with VAST majority based on performance... like 20/80 vs 80/20..
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because as soon as two schools are in competition for a coach, one will give the coach an 80/20 kind of contract and end the competition real quick.

Humans don't like to work under that much uncertainty (or any really) on how much they will make for their time and energy invested.
 
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