CB E.J. Underwood (transfer to Pikeville)

[DiHard]

mili...i admired your staunch position on gamble....and you were very close to being accurate....i meant my reference to you as a compliment....however;

it is killers stance on fox that is ridiculous.....it is one thing to have a point and sense of reason (as you had), but it is another thing to spout killers claims.....

 

[ysubuck]

Again, I think that Fox sometimes gets beaten up because of the scheme that is (was ? ) in place. Don't get beat deep. Don't let anything behind you. Bend don't break. Maybe this year we'll see the corners moving up and jamming and running with their guys. Nobody can doubt Dustin's athleticism. The kid can run with anyone. And if my memory serves me correctly, he has never been beaten on a deep route. The kid plays disciplined football. If Gamble had played disciplined football, OSU beats Wisconsin last year.

I yelled at the TV more than once as Fox gave up 5-7 yard outs over and over. Bend don't break. Doesn't do much for our blood pressure, but it has been effective, and Dustin has played his role in the scheme very well over the last few years.

 

[osugrad21]

Again, I think that Fox sometimes gets beaten up because of the scheme that is (was ? ) in place. .

Exactly...some people need to read the Secondary play blogs so they can understand why he gave up the underneath routes. Certain coverages, like cover 3, call for Dustin to play a deep third of the field. He does not have the option to gamble on the short routes when a sister route could burn him deep.

 

[antosu]

Fox is our best deep covering corner and that say's a lot because we have some talent at that position but he struggles when he is sticking a wr who cut's sharp and often. He is always fatser and stronger than wr's but he does not turn on a dime or a penny or a quarter or a...well you get my point. If he had looser hips or whatever it is you need to have to cut quickly and very sharp, he would perhaps be the best in the nation.

The teams we played ran a lot of short routes and under garbage. These routes exposed his weeknesses. He is not a risk taker which is right up JT's alley. I think he'll have a great year.

 

[smitty03]

I agree with antosu totally on this subject. Fox doesnt always look good at times, but never really looks horrible. I can remember a couple times last year when he had interceptions at crucial times to seal the game for the Bucks. Fox will have another good year under Tressel. As for Underwood, he should be worried about not only Youboty but Ginn now to since he isnt in the Olympics.

 

[osugrad21]

Yes Ant its in the hips...I tell my DBs that the ladies will always love them for that reason:)

The under routes will give almost any DB trouble due to picks and other interference games.

Athletically, Fox can hang with anyone on the roster. He will probably be the wide side corner this year so all of these opinions will be tested under fire. IMO expect a great season.

 

[KillerNut]

Look you are all entitled to your beliefs, and I can assure you I know I am entitled to mine.

First I can assure you it is not racist. In fact the notion that it might be is nothing but able.

Now that we are done with bringing up something that had nothing to do with my post. Go back and see who teams pick on, game in and game out. Go and see how many times Fox stops a reciever from catching the ball by his coverage, when he does not interfere with the pass. If the pass is accurate, and Fox doesn't interfere then from my memory almost every single time it is a catch or a drop that has nothing to do with the coverage. Is that a good COVER corner? No. You would think just by mere odds that at somepoint he would knock a ball away or seperate a reciever from the ball with a well timed hit. But never to rare describe those times for D. Fox. He lets the reciever make the catch and then does a good job of making an open field tackle. Safeties make open field tackles, corners are suppose to break up passes and he just doesn't do it. San Diego State and Bowling Green picked on him last year, NC State did the same. Purdue had his number. I can't believe for a minute that I am the only one seeing this. You are looking at the results not the ability. The ability is not there, he is a product of a good defensive system that lost some of the great players that made him look good like Doss, Smith, Anderson, D. Scott, Will Allen. He is horrible.

Does he have experience? Yes. Does that help him out some? Yes. But is he talented enough to play at the corner in Big Ten football? NO!

Here is a little test to how you really feel, and try to be honest with youselves. Would you feel comfortable with Fox one-on-one versus Braylon Edwards of scUM. No chance in hell, if we have that match up then we lose big. But this is our all amercan canidate cornerback , sure thing all confrence right? Nope he just isn't that good. Not, once again, because he is pale in complection, but he just isn't that good at cornerback. Athletically is he, maybe, but he has shown me below average to horrible play (for an Ohio State CB) since he started, and until I see something different my stance will not change.

Can you name a starting Cornerback, other than Cie Grant, who was another playing out of position, that Ohio State has had in recent years that is worse than Fox? I can't. You would think at some point he would make a play that stops a pass play every once in a while.

Cornerbacks at Ohio State should be like

Antoine Winfield
Shawn Springs
Nate Clemens

When they are considered great. Fox is not great, he is not even good. IMO he isn't even average.

 

[osugrad21]

Here is a little test to how you really feel, and try to be honest with youselves. Would you feel comfortable with Fox one-on-one versus Braylon Edwards of scUM. No chance in hell, if we have that match up then we lose big

You won't see Cover 1 against scUM or any other team with great WRs.

You are entitled to your opinion, but IMO you are missing the point of the schemes and the responsibilites therein. Fox was picked on in the short passing game because he played the short side of the field which makes those out routes closer to the sideline and therefore a safer throw using the sideline as a boundary. The ball is thrown to the outside where either the receiver makes the catch or it goes out of bounds. That is an impossible play for ANY corner sticking to the scheme. The scheme relies on quick pressure from multiple points of attack to force the bad or errant throw.

 

[Brutus1]

Clements was no where near as good as the other two.

 

[KillerNut]

If he had closing speed and looked to play the ball, his timing on hits would be better, and he may knock a few balls away. If he was really as fast at everyone wants to believe he coud take some gambles and make up for it with his speed, like every other CB in the nation.

 

[Naplesbuckeye]

We are all entitled to our opinion on Fox, however one must understand the scheme in which Fox plays...This is from the O Zone last year and from Mark Dantonio's mouth. I believe that he, above anyone else, would have an understanding of how Fox played and is playing the position.


Dustin Doing It
By John Porentas
Buckeye defensive coordinator, and soon-to-be Cincinnati Head Coach, Mark Dantonio has spent considerable time with the media this week and has been particularly forthcoming with reporters. Dantonio was asked earlier this week why Dustin Fox was kept at cornerback this year instead of moving to safety as many speculated he would. Dantonio had some interesting things to say on that topic.

"We've always taken our best tacklers and put them on the field. That's why in 2001 we put Cie out there at corner, because he was definitely one of our best 11 out there on the field. While everybody was moaning about it and everything we put our best tacklers out on the field to give us a chance, because it ultimately comes down to making tackles. When Cie left, we took Dustin and took a guy who was a 10.5 100 meter guy with good ball skills and undoubtedly the best tackler in our secondary and put him at the weak side corner," said Dantonio.

"Like I was telling somebody, in 1,010 plays last year, not one ball was thrown over his head. Everybody moaned, but they don't really know what's going on, if he has help underneath. Those are short throws to the boundary side so if a guy catches and out into the boundary, a lot of times that's on the defense called and execution by the offense, but you don't see the ball going over his head. When you're playing corner, if you can just make them earn it going down the field and not allow the deep throw, you've got a chance," Dantonio said.

"Because of that, when Donnie and Mike left there was a little decision making as to whether we would move him to safety or not. Coach Tucker felt that somebody clearly had to step up and play better at corner than Nate Salley or other guys could come in and fill in at safety. We just thought we had two nation championship corners coming back, why mess with them."

Dantonio is obviously convinced he made the right decision in leaving Fox at corner. Fox has not given up the deep ball, and is a sure tackler, something that Dantonio sees as the key to the upcoming game against Kansas State, particularly with the elusive Darren Sproles running the football.

"You're going to have to be able to bend your knees and make tackles," said Dantonio.

"If you play straight legged against this guy you're going to miss him. You'd better be able to bend your knees."

 

[osugrad21]

If he had closing speed and looked to play the ball, his timing on hits would be better, and he may knock a few balls away. If he was really as fast at everyone wants to believe he coud take some gambles and make up for it with his speed, like every other CB in the nation.

Stopwatches don't lie....

Once again, I don't think you understand defensive repsonsibilities. Its easy to trash a player when you are unaware of his job. Perhaps you should learn the intricacies of the game before you decide to criticize a player playing within a designed scheme.

 

[buckiprof]

Stopwatches don't lie....

Once again, I don't think you understand defensive repsonsibilities. Its easy to trash a player when you are unaware of his job. Perhaps you should learn the intricacies of the game before you decide to criticize a player playing within a designed scheme.

Well said 21.

It is pretty obvious from killer's comments (he calls opinions) that his knowledge of defensive schemes is, in a word, limited. I truly doubt that Dantonio would have had a "horrible" CB on the field.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

KillerNut: Can you name a starting Cornerback, other than Cie Grant, who was another playing out of position, that Ohio State has had in recent years that is worse than Fox? I can't.

Uh, how many times have we had to resort to moving someone from "out of position" to make up for a lack of play at corner? Fortunately very few. That right there should show you how "good" Underwood was when they benched his ass. In fact, from the second half of 2002 to our Fiesta Bowl in over K-State, both our starting corners were not playing their "natural" position (Fox, a "natural" safety, and Gamble, a "natural" receiver). Maybe our crops of actual cornerbacks wasn't as great as we thought.

 

[LouisHMartinez]

Fox is average as a cornerback

If he were at the same level as Gamble, Clements, Plummer, Winfield, et al, he should still be able to make plays, the scheme notwithstanding.

People who keep insisting on citing his 40 time are pointing out his speed but what seems to be lacking are quicks which aren't measured over 40 yards but in 1-5 yard bursts. Here he's lacking and why he's average in coverage.

And quit using race to deflect criticisms of him. How pathetic.