Cavs-Wizards 1st round playoff series

[exhawg]

I haven't been able to watch any of the Cavs playoff games yet due to the Spring Game and the Tribe heart-breaker last night, but that is going to change now. No more watching the Cavs score on the Blackberry for me.

Hopefully this struggle was something Lebron needed to move to the next level. He has 2 days to figure out how to improve. A 7 game series is a new thing for him so this was his growing pains game. From what I've read Lebron just had a really bad shooting night, which hopefully won't happen again. I think the Cavs can take one of the next 2 games in Washington.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

Eddie Jordan made it pretty clear in his post-game comments that anytime Lebron brings it to the paint, he's going to get fouled hard. He tried to gloss over it and say that it wouldn't be anything intentionally flagrant, but by admitting that he's instructing his players to commit hard fouls, that's what he's saying.

I'd be scared too to take it to the rack if I knew the other team was going to foul me hard, possibly ending my playoffs or seriously damaging my career. Implied threats of injury to intimidate the opposing team is gutless. Basketball is a physical game. But intent is not supposed to be part of the equation. I didn't like it when the Bad Boys did it to Jordan, and I like it even less now. Any old no-talent hack like a Brendan Haywood can fuck up a player going to the basket if he nails him intentionally.

by this comment im guessing varejao's foul on arenas sickens you? and that the fact the cavs do the same thing to him is gutless? and then you obviously think so poorly of hack-a-shaq that you think the teams should forfeit?



i agree with you the nba has changed from where in the playoffs you fouled a guy hard going after the ball (but making sure he didnt get the bucket) to grabbing and clutching a guy before he can even make the play. to me just another reason the nba to me is barely even basketball.

 

[exhawg]

Well Lebron got fouled hard, and after that he couldnt make a lay-up to save his life....

Gee...I wonder if he gets the shit knocked out of him again in Washington? He showed that he was scared.

Next game Lebron needs to take it hard to the hole and and take it to one of the Wizards, even if it's a charge. Show them that he will run them over if they get in his way. Lebron is big enough that it should hurt if he runs someone over on the way to the hoop.

Marshall and Jones need to have better games as well. I think Brown might be afraid of Jones playing D against the Wizards guards.

 

[tibor75]

Eddie Jordan made it pretty clear in his post-game comments that anytime Lebron brings it to the paint, he's going to get fouled hard. He tried to gloss over it and say that it wouldn't be anything intentionally flagrant, but by admitting that he's instructing his players to commit hard fouls, that's what he's saying.

I'd be scared too to take it to the rack if I knew the other team was going to foul me hard, possibly ending my playoffs or seriously damaging my career. Implied threats of injury to intimidate the opposing team is gutless. Basketball is a physical game. But intent is not supposed to be part of the equation. I didn't like it when the Bad Boys did it to Jordan, and I like it even less now. Any old no-talent hack like a Brendan Haywood can fuck up a player going to the basket if he nails him intentionally.

The whining by Cavs fans here is hilarious.

If Lebron gets all scared and gutless because of some hard fouls, he'll never win a championship...nor should he.

 

[SanAntonioBuck]

Next game Lebron needs to take it hard to the hole and and take it to one of the Wizards, even if it's a charge. Show them that he will run them over if they get in his way. Lebron is big enough that it should hurt if he runs someone over on the way to the hoop.

I agree, that should set the tone for the game!

 

[jimotis4heisman]

Next game Lebron needs to take it hard to the hole and and take it to one of the Wizards, even if it's a charge. Show them that he will run them over if they get in his way. Lebron is big enough that it should hurt if he runs someone over on the way to the hoop.

Marshall and Jones need to have better games as well. I think Brown might be afraid of Jones playing D against the Wizards guards.

in the third quarter he did just that he threw a stiff arm at butler in transition and got the and 1 in his favor. a block was called and it was butlers 4th foul.

 

[OH10]

by this comment im guessing varejao's foul on arenas sickens you? and that the fact the cavs do the same thing to him is gutless? and then you obviously think so poorly of hack-a-shaq that you think the teams should forfeit?

I think Varejao needs to watch himself. I don't think he intentionally fouls people, but then again, what he did to Rashweed Wallace a couple weeks appeared to be so. And I certainly wouldn't use the word "sickens". It's just gutless to use intentionally hard fouls for intimidation purposes. I can't say for certain what Andy did was intentional, but Coach Jordan made it pretty clear that the hard fouling on the Wizards' part is absolutely intentional.

I "obviously" believe a lot of things according to you. Hack-a-Shaq is gutless. But thanks for being condescending.

i agree with you the nba has changed from where in the playoffs you fouled a guy hard going after the ball (but making sure he didnt get the bucket) to grabbing and clutching a guy before he can even make the play. to me just another reason the nba to me is barely even basketball.

I don't know what you would call it then. I'd certainly rather watch the pro version of basketball than any so-called high school "basketball" game. The size and athleticism of today's players necessitates a different style of basketball. Just like in the NFL, the size and athleticism dictates a different style.

If you don't like the style, that's fine. But don't denigrate it by saying it's barely basketball. It's just not the kind of basketball that you prefer.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

I think Varejao needs to watch himself. I don't think he intentionally fouls people, but then again, what he did to Rashweed Wallace a couple weeks appeared to be so. And I certainly wouldn't use the word "sickens". It's just gutless to use intentionally hard fouls for intimidation purposes. I can't say for certain what Andy did was intentional, but Coach Jordan made it pretty clear that the hard fouling on the Wizards' part is absolutely intentional.

I "obviously" believe a lot of things according to you. Hack-a-Shaq is gutless. But thanks for being condescending.



I don't know what you would call it then. I'd certainly rather watch the pro version of basketball than any so-called high school "basketball" game. The size and athleticism of today's players necessitates a different style of basketball. Just like in the NFL, the size and athleticism dictates a different style.

If you don't like the style, that's fine. But don't denigrate it by saying it's barely basketball. It's just not the kind of basketball that you prefer.

sd, my post is not meant to be negative or aimed at you. but just pointing out other similar scenarios.

its not the style of play that i do not like. its what you and i are talking about. the you take it to the hole and beat me and im going to foul you with the intent of a) sending a message b) not allowing you a chance at the hoop WITHOUT playing the ball. the fact the players no longer play or are forced to play the ball by officials is the part i do not like.

 

[OH10]

sd, my post is not meant to be negative or aimed at you. but just pointing out other similar scenarios.

its not the style of play that i do not like. its what you and i are talking about. the you take it to the hole and beat me and im going to foul you with the intent of a) sending a message b) not allowing you a chance at the hoop WITHOUT playing the ball. the fact the players no longer play or are forced to play the ball by officials is the part i do not like.

I think that's on the officiating in the NBA, which has been a problem for a long time. They arbitrarily enforce the flagrant foul rule, and are blind to off-ball fouls, unless told to look for it. They are unbelievably inconsistent, and quite frankly, too out-of-shape to get in the right spot.

If a foul is intentional, whether it's unabated to the basket, or a "message" foul, the officials should call the flagrant.

 

[WestEnd]

My thoughts:

Drew Gooden was an absolute BEAST. He pretty much single-handedly carried the cavs through most of the second and third quarters. There is no excuse for putting him on the bench for any period of time in the fourth quarter, because he was the only one who had anything going for him. 24-16?!?!?! If Gooden can play like he did last night for the rest of the series, the cavs win in 6.

LeBron played the worst possible game he could play, and the cavs still had a chance to tie with 20 sec left. When Lebron is playing poorly:

1. I think it becomes important for the cavs to start running their offense through Z in the low block, but the wizards did a great job bringing double teams on Z when he got the ball. Z has to do a better job of handling those double teams. He's played pretty poorly in the last two games, and he's got to step it up in game 3.

2. It becomes that much more important for the cavs to get the ball in his hands while he is moving, coming of screens and stuff. But they haven't done that all year, so who knows if they'll start now.

Larry Hughes looked to have a better game, but the rest of the team is still not on the same page as him. He was spotting the mismatches all night, but people (mostly Varejeo, sometimes LeBron) kept getting in the fucking way. There were a few trips up the floor in the 4th where Gooden had Daniels on him, and Hughes was trying to get the ball in to him, and then Varejeo's dumb ass would come wandering in to set a screen for hughes and bring another defender into the picture. How frustrating.

Arenas had a good game, but I thought they played him pretty tough ... Same with Jamison. The guy who really killed the cavs was butler. They need to try to take him out of the picture in game 3.

Bottom line though, as go Lebron and Z offensively go the cavs. I still think that Lebron doesn't have to have a great game series for the cavs to beat the wizards, but Z needs to play much better. Fortunately, it's impossible for Bron to have 2 bad games back to back, so look for the cavs to take game 3.

 

[WestEnd]

With respect to SD's and JO4hiesman's little discussion, I'd have to say that I agree with SD. The athleticism and competitiveness of the pro players in the playoffs is what dictates the style of game they are playing.

Back when the cavs absolutely sucked, I had the privledge of scalping floor seats to a pre-season game for $15. Let me tell you that unless you've sat on the floor (which is way to pricey for most people to have done) at an NBA game, you have NO CONCEPT of just how HUGE these guys are and how much of the game is played above the rim. Watch one of the littler guys without sick verticals shot jumpers. They have to toss up complete rainbows if they are within 20'. I mean, Jared Jeffries plays both the 2 and 3 and he's 6'10" !!!!!!!!

In that sense, the pros are just too big, too quick and too athletic, for defenders to play what is taught in high schools as conventional "good" defense. If you aren't moving your feet, you'll get burned, because the players are too quick, so taking a charge in the NBA requires uncanny anticipation. Playing the ball while not giving up easy and-ones is so hard above the rim, because the players are too strong, that you have to grab while the ball is still below their shoulders it seems like.

I don't know though, maybe I just feel this way because I watch them play and am in such awe of their physical skills that I can't even imagine how I'd guard them, but it just seems so hard that "grabbing" type fouls seem to be the only route.

EDIT: The more I think about it though, the more I think consistant officiating would help this. I mean, if the refs would just call the travel as it should be called, players explosiveness to the basket would be limited and defending them would be much easier, and that's just the first example that came to my mind.

 

[BB73]

I think that's on the officiating in the NBA, which has been a problem for a long time. They arbitrarily enforce the flagrant foul rule, and are blind to off-ball fouls, unless told to look for it. They are unbelievably inconsistent, and quite frankly, too out-of-shape to get in the right spot.

If a foul is intentional, whether it's unabated to the basket, or a "message" foul, the officials should call the flagrant.

The refs are doing their best to call the game according to the current rules. I believe it's the rules that need to change, and I've been saying it for 20 years. The NBA fails to grasp the concept that a person or a team violating the rules should not benefit from their own infractions.

All clearly intentional fouls should be 2 free throws and the basketball. This includes 'clear path' fouls on breakaways, fouls currently classified as flagrant, and blatant fouls like bear-hugging a guy going up for a layup.

If a team wants to play 'Hack-a-Shaq', they'd have to be attempting to make a play on the ball in order to get a normal foul called. Any bear-hugging, or fouling him intentionally when he doesn't have the ball should result in 2 shots and the ball. And I'm not a fan of Shaq at all.

Just because the NBA has gone decades without realizing that 'good fouls' should be oxymorons doesn't make them right. If the league wants to improve the flow of the game, which would increase fan interest, they need to minimize the hard fouls by changing the rules.

It's really a simple concept - the team committing the foul should be more likely to have the negative outcome than the team being fouled. Two shots and the ball on all intentional fouls would accomplish this in most cases, and coaches would quickly tell their players to not do it. There would be less rough play, less fights, and more scoring.

 

[bucknut4life]

did anyone else notice the absolutely terrible camerwork by TNT last night??

my goodness, i have never seen camerwork worse than last night..it was making me dizzy at some points..

and for half the game, i didnt see who had the ball until they were under the hoop

 

[crazybuckfan40]

did anyone else notice the absolutely terrible camerwork by TNT last night??

my goodness, i have never seen camerwork worse than last night..it was making me dizzy at some points..

and for half the game, i didnt see who had the ball until they were under the hoop

Yes, there were so many times, when you couldnt even see what the pg was doing with the ball, and all they showed was the paint and just up to the 3 pt line.

Another time it was bad was when Donyell hit his 3 you didnt even see him shoot it, but you just saw the ball come from out of nowhere.

This is the playoffs and LBJ has to toughen up. He has to fight back and not be scared. Also our guys need to be tougher, b/c nothing comes easy in the playoffs. You guys saw all the x players and coaches commending Haywodd for the tough foul. THere is a reason for that and you can't be soft in the playoffs, or else you will get beat.

 

[7 45 33 48]

did anyone else notice the absolutely terrible camerwork by TNT last night??

my goodness, i have never seen camerwork worse than last night..it was making me dizzy at some points..

and for half the game, i didnt see who had the ball until they were under the hoop

You are not the only that noticed. Usually TNT has the best camera work for NBA, way better than ABC. ABC needs to zoom in more, especially in college football and NBA games. But, the camera work was terrible last night on TNT for the 1st game. Couldn't see the ball handler most of the time and couldn't see who was shooting 3's.