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Cavs 09-10 Season (official thread)

NFBuck;1704022; said:
Jiri Welsh is the one major gaffe of the LeBron era. I'm still hoping against hope LBJ maintains his Ohio loyalty, but I'm not holding my breath. Something was not right about him these playoffs, particularly this series. Oh, the other major mistake was hiring Mike Brown as the coach. The man is a buffoon and the one silver lining of this debacle means he is likely gone. I said all along the Cavs wouldn't win a title with his goofy ass in charge, sad to see I was right.

Mike Brown cost them the series against Orlando last year, flat out. Mike Brown certainly hurt them in this series, and his loyalty to line-ups and his stubborness to adjust or his stupidity to adjust killed a lot of our opportunities against Boston. I just don't know what to say...I feel like I could talk about it forever, but it does no good.

I'll never fault Ferry for trying, and I won't hate LeBron for leaving although game 5 will always be a head-scratcher. I'll forever hate Mike Brown though. Seems like a nice guy and I wish no ill-will, but a terrible head-coach that lead the Cavs into a tsunami with awful adjustments and horrible line-ups.
 
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All I can think about is Game 5 vs. Detroit. What that meant to me as a sports fan, and a Cavs fan. Easily my best moment as a basketball fan. One of the best games of my life, and all thanks to the man who probably saw his last day in a Cavalier uniform. I can't blame him though.

Can someone tell me what Mike Brown was thinking as he played 1/24 shooting Antawn Jamison over JJ Hickson? Jamison was seriously awful, but he stuck with him, even though he wasn't doing shit offensively, or on Garnett. Or.. how about when Brown refused to tell his guys to run the floor and abuse their athletic advantage? Or play Shaq, at all? Or big Z? I just don't know how one man can be such a moron. He gave the Celtics the speed advantage. He let Shaq clog up the lane for LeBron. He didn't let Hickson play, and limited Varejaos minutes.

Sorry, LeBron. Thank you for the best six years in my sports watching life.. It was fun while it lasted. Still, through it all, I can't even blame him for leaving. Mo Williams disappeared at half time after coming out and playing hard. Antawn Jamison did nothing. And Mike Brown.. He allowed Shaq to play more minutes than anyone with mobility. It cannot be a surprise that we lost, and it cannot be a surprise if LeBron leaves. Varejao taking the last shot and missing from 3 basically embodied LeBron's supporting cast throughout the six years he was with us.

Best of luck anywhere but Chicago, Bron, I'll be for the (below .500) Cavs first, and your team second.
 
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Boston was better. You could tell by how Cleveland had zero answers. Their big 4 plus their bench is just better than LeBron and everyone we have. Plain and simple, we needed to put more around him. During the regular season everything looks great, but the teams we play turn it up a notch in the playoffs; a notch that we don't have. Even Jordan had Pippen and Rodman. Put those two around LeBron with a couple of our role players and this series would be over.
 
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I keep seeing "Everyone but Lebron sucks"...how about we had good players but Brown had no clue how to put a viable lineup together from the cast? I like the guy but there really is no excuse to go out this early with the team we have. Because of that, we lose Lebron and who knows where we go from here. Just as when MJ left Chicago (I was a young, young sportsfan then), I will be as heart broken to see Lebron leave Cleveland. Born and raise northern Ohio phenom that by fate ended up on a once horrible northern Ohio pro team. Such a great story, wish it would've ended with a championship though. Anyway, thanks Lebron. Also, thanks Varejao for your great hustle. I'll assess the rest when I'm not so angry.l
 
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NFBuck;1704022; said:
Jiri Welsh is the one major gaffe of the LeBron era.

I don't know--it's becoming increasingly difficult to characterize the Jamison acqusition as anything but a huge bust. The guy is an absolute liability on the defensive end, and he is more likely to turn the ball over or miss a 3-pointer on the offensive end than he is to do something that will help the team. And the fact that Cleveland is now stuck with his contract makes it all the worse.
 
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buckeyesin07;1704094; said:
I don't know--it's becoming increasingly difficult to characterize the Jamison acqusition as anything but a huge bust. The guy is an absolute liability on the defensive end, and he is more likely to turn the ball over or miss a 3-pointer on the offensive end than he is to do something that will help the team. And the fact that Cleveland is now stuck with his contract makes it all the worse.

The draft picks given up to get Jiri Welsch could have by this point been mature players with manageable contracts contributing to the team this year.

On the other hand, what happens if the Jamison deal does not happen? Forget about the Stoudemire rumors - I've changed my mind on that and don't think we can assume that there were any other deals on the table. For as bad as he was, Jamison was not the sole reason the Cavs lost. And if the Cavs had stood pat and made no move at all, they probably still would have lost this series. Then you could just point to the Cavs going down like chumps and not making a mid-season move to try to get better as reasons for LeBron to leave.
 
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jlb1705;1704136; said:
The draft picks given up to get Jiri Welsch could have by this point been mature players with manageable contracts contributing to the team this year.

On the other hand, what happens if the Jamison deal does not happen? Forget about the Stoudemire rumors - I've changed my mind on that and don't think we can assume that there were any other deals on the table. For as bad as he was, Jamison was not the sole reason the Cavs lost. And if the Cavs had stood pat and made no move at all, they probably still would have lost this series. Then you could just point to the Cavs going down like chumps and not making a mid-season move to try to get better as reasons for LeBron to leave.

I don't know...game 6 was a combination of Jamison's HORRENDOUS play, and Mike Brown not recognizing it. The Cavs played infinitely better with Varejao at the PF even though he doesn't bring an outside shot. But at least Andy finishes at the rim. And Jamison compounded his extremely soft play on the offensive side of the court by getting abused defensively by not only Kevin Garnett but Kendrick Perkins as well. I won't pin the series on Jamison, but I'll pin game 6 six on him and Mike Brown.

I don't fault Jamison in this though...he's a solid player. He was just in a terrible match-up. Like Shaquelle O'Neal, Jamison would have been worth his weight in gold against Orlando. He'd have matched up on Rashard Lewis beautifully. Unfortuantely, we never got to Orlando. We built this entire roster on beating Orlando, and we looked past everyone else in the East. That bit us in the end. Well that, and a coach that fails to recognize how to make adjustments. I'll bang the LeBron on Rondo drum for the rest of my life...
 
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jlb1705;1704136; said:
The draft picks given up to get Jiri Welsch could have by this point been mature players with manageable contracts contributing to the team this year.

On the other hand, what happens if the Jamison deal does not happen? Forget about the Stoudemire rumors - I've changed my mind on that and don't think we can assume that there were any other deals on the table. For as bad as he was, Jamison was not the sole reason the Cavs lost. And if the Cavs had stood pat and made no move at all, they probably still would have lost this series. Then you could just point to the Cavs going down like chumps and not making a mid-season move to try to get better as reasons for LeBron to leave.

I don't know if the Jiri Welsch trade hurt that much. Check the players that were drafted at 24 or lower. I don't see anyone that would be a game changer now. Landry, Baby, and Gasol would all be a reach at 24.

NBA.com: 2007 NBA Draft Board
 
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exhawg;1704159; said:
I don't know if the Jiri Welsch trade hurt that much. Check the players that were drafted at 24 or lower. I don't see anyone that would be a game changer now. Landry, Baby, and Gasol would all be a reach at 24.

NBA.com: 2007 NBA Draft Board

Well, I sure wouldn't have minded having Marc Gasol or Aaron Brooks.

I get your point though. My memory is hazy on the trades, and maybe I was just projecting the Welsch trade onto all of them - but there were two years early in the LeBron era where the team had no picks because of the sins of the previous front office. Even hitting on just one decent young player in one of those two drafts would've been helpful.
 
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jlb1705;1704169; said:
Well, I sure wouldn't have minded having Marc Gasol or Aaron Brooks.

I get your point though. My memory is hazy on the trades, and maybe I was just projecting the Welsch trade onto all of them - but there were two years early in the LeBron era where the team had no picks because of the sins of the previous front office. Even hitting on just one decent young player in one of those two drafts would've been helpful.

the 2005 no 1st rounder trade was worse. david lee, danny granger, sean may (when healthy), jarrett jack, jason maxiel. all could have been cavs, and all could have played a major role on this team.
 
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billmac91;1704142; said:
I don't know...game 6 was a combination of Jamison's HORRENDOUS play, and Mike Brown not recognizing it. The Cavs played infinitely better with Varejao at the PF even though he doesn't bring an outside shot. But at least Andy finishes at the rim. And Jamison compounded his extremely soft play on the offensive side of the court by getting abused defensively by not only Kevin Garnett but Kendrick Perkins as well. I won't pin the series on Jamison, but I'll pin game 6 six on him and Mike Brown.

I don't fault Jamison in this though...he's a solid player. He was just in a terrible match-up. Like Shaquelle O'Neal, Jamison would have been worth his weight in gold against Orlando. He'd have matched up on Rashard Lewis beautifully. Unfortuantely, we never got to Orlando. We built this entire roster on beating Orlando, and we looked past everyone else in the East. That bit us in the end. Well that, and a coach that fails to recognize how to make adjustments. I'll bang the LeBron on Rondo drum for the rest of my life...

Only problem is, Varejao couldn't finish at the rim last night, I think he was 2-7. That includes a key miss that would have cut the celtic's lead to 2 in the 4th quarter. Jamison had a hard time fitting in with Shaq, the pieces to this team just didn't mesh well.

I'll say it again, its very difficult to win consistently in the playoffs when you're team is supposed to have a defensive identity and 3 of your starting 5 are average defenders. Throw in bad performances the whole series by Jamison, Mo, Delonte, and Varejao and you have this result.

This is also one of the few times I disagree with Windhorst. In his post game blog he said this team isn't close to being where it needs to be. The NBA is a coach's league, so that is the first thing that needs to be fixed. Mike Brown is gone. That will come soon enough. Hopefully Z will retire because he doesn't help much anymore. Unfortunatly we're stuck with Jamison's contract but he still has a little bit left in the tank despite this terrible performance. If we can get a defensive minded center and Hickson continues to develop, we still have a pretty good team. Powe can come back stronger from his knee injury next year to be a solid role player to be another big in the rotation to replace one of our ancient centers.

The talent we have coming back isn't terrible, and a coach that the players actually listened to and respected would do wonders. When the coach tells his players to foul and extend the game and they just give up, that says something about the respect he has with his team.
 
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aurorabuckeye13;1704174; said:
Only problem is, Varejao couldn't finish at the rim last night, I think he was 2-7. That includes a key miss that would have cut the celtic's lead to 2 in the 4th quarter. Jamison had a hard time fitting in with Shaq, the pieces to this team just didn't mesh well.

I'll say it again, its very difficult to win consistently in the playoffs when you're team is supposed to have a defensive identity and 3 of your starting 5 are average defenders. Throw in bad performances the whole series by Jamison, Mo, Delonte, and Varejao and you have this result.

This is also one of the few times I disagree with Windhorst. In his post game blog he said this team isn't close to being where it needs to be. The NBA is a coach's league, so that is the first thing that needs to be fixed. Mike Brown is gone. That will come soon enough. Hopefully Z will retire because he doesn't help much anymore. Unfortunatly we're stuck with Jamison's contract but he still has a little bit left in the tank despite this terrible performance. If we can get a defensive minded center and Hickson continues to develop, we still have a pretty good team. Powe can come back stronger from his knee injury next year to be a solid role player to be another big in the rotation to replace one of our ancient centers.

The talent we have coming back isn't terrible, and a coach that the players actually listened to and respected would do wonders. When the coach tells his players to foul and extend the game and they just give up, that says something about the respect he has with his team.

I agree. I was saying all series that they needed more defense. Lebron and Parker were the only good defenders that the Cavs had in the starting lineup and that isn't enough to guard a team like the Celtics. Shaq could be good against a guy that is around the basket like Howard, but he is a liability further away from the hoop. The Cavs played well after the Jamison trade because JJ is a better all around defender than Shaq so they had 3 decent defenders on the floor most of the time.
I hope Lebron comes back, but if he doesn't a lineup of Mo, Parker, Jamison, JJ, and Andy isn't horrible with West, Powe, Moon, Williams, and Boobie coming off the bench. They just need a coach that can find the right mix of players at the correct time. Let me keep Lebron and Shaq (in a diminished role) with a good coach and the Cavs can win it all.
 
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96 turnovers in the Celtics series... and that doesn't count the number of times they flat out couldn't grab a ball right at them...

I think:
* LeBron stays
* Brown goes
* Shaq goes.. and maybe Z too
* Eyenga joins the team
* probably most everyone else stays
* dunno about Gibson
* we have to pick up a physical center
* and wouldn't be surprised if Mo is traded
 
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billmac91;1704142; said:
I don't know...game 6 was a combination of Jamison's HORRENDOUS play, and Mike Brown not recognizing it. The Cavs played infinitely better with Varejao at the PF even though he doesn't bring an outside shot. But at least Andy finishes at the rim. And Jamison compounded his extremely soft play on the offensive side of the court by getting abused defensively by not only Kevin Garnett but Kendrick Perkins as well. I won't pin the series on Jamison, but I'll pin game 6 six on him and Mike Brown.

Bingo.

I don't fault Jamison in this though...he's a solid player. He was just in a terrible match-up. Like Shaquelle O'Neal, Jamison would have been worth his weight in gold against Orlando. He'd have matched up on Rashard Lewis beautifully. Unfortuantely, we never got to Orlando. We built this entire roster on beating Orlando, and we looked past everyone else in the East. That bit us in the end. Well that, and a coach that fails to recognize how to make adjustments. I'll bang the LeBron on Rondo drum for the rest of my life...

I am not sure I agree here. While I don't think Jamison is very good to begin with, he simply didn't fit in well in Cleveland. He constantly looked lost and awkward when on the floor. While he may have matched up better with Lewis than he did with Garnett, I still think Lewis would have had his way with Jamison. He was simply playing lost and with no confidence whatsoever in a Cleveland uniform.
 
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