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Cavs 07-08 Season Thread

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exhawg;1166205; said:
I'm not really sure what you are getting at, but if you are saying what I think you are saying all I can say is, duh. If we give Ferry to the trading deadline next year shit will get done. Just don't expect the world this summer.
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honestly, what I expect is the following:

1. Cleveland resigns west and gibson, lets joe smith and devin brown walk.
2. Cleveland drafts a PF/C in the draft.
3. Cleveland dumps wally's, DJ's, and eric snow's contracts for a legit #2 scorer.
 
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tsteele316;1166222; said:
honestly, what I expect is the following:

1. Cleveland resigns west and gibson, lets joe smith and devin brown walk.
2. Cleveland drafts a PF/C in the draft.
3. Cleveland dumps wally's, DJ's, and eric snow's contracts for a legit #2 scorer.
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I agree except Joe Smith has a year left on his contract so he won't walk until then or could be part of your part 3 trade. IMO he's a good player to have on the bench so I wouldn't get rid of him as quickly as some of the other guys.
 
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After a game like yesterday it is just time to look at next year...

tsteele316;1166222; said:
honestly, what I expect is the following:

1. Cleveland resigns west and gibson, lets joe smith and devin brown walk.
2. Cleveland drafts a PF/C in the draft.
3. Cleveland dumps wally's, DJ's, and eric snow's contracts for a legit #2 scorer.
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Resigning West & Gibson are no brainers but I don't mind Devin Brown as a backup with a backup price. Nothing wrong with keeping Joe Smith though...

The draft... really we have like the 19th pick? By that time of the draft you just pick the best available player amongst PG/SG/PF/C and hope they can contribute.

#3 option was the one thing I was going to bring up while reading this thread and was going to bring it up (but you beat me to it)

Wally, Jones & Snow make a combined $24-$25 million next year and are expiring contracts. That is what we can call our Golden Ticket to the championships. If we had those type of contracts this past year we could have gotten Marion/Gasol/Kidd/Garnett.

We are over the cap so any free agents we can get will be of the sign and trade variety. So Wally, Jones & Snow are important chips for the Cavs. The question is... Does Ferry waste them? Or does he cash them in?

Basically any big name player that demands a trade the Cavaliers will be rumored to be part of the trade. If we can get a legit SG with some range then that would be perfect. Please Redd... demand a trade from Milwaukee.
 
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crazybuckfan40;1166149; said:
Tell me who I named specifically...If you think LBJ and 4 legit starters can't get the team over the top then please explain...A GM who overspends for the one player to get them over the top is a bad GM IMHO...It happens all over sports...Look at the Cavs with Hughes, The Reds with Griffey, I have seen it first hand too many times...If it is the right situation then you think about, but you better be damn sure it is the right situation, and don't make a move out of desperation to make a move...



To me that is just reaching for a name...BTW both of them are legit NBA starters, so I don't see how my theory is shot down...But those are not guys that you pay top dollar for IMO...I have given my reasons...Baron is getting up there in age, and Gilbert has quite the history of injuries...We already went down that road with Larry...



yeah I said this when I basically said Ferry needs to sit down and discuss with LBJ what his plans and feelings are about Cleveland now and the future...



Rando is probably one of the best defensive guards in the NBA...Delonte has good speed...PGs are hard to come by in the NBA...Yes he is not the best, but PG is not a need that I am worried about...I ride with West, he is cheap, played well in the playoffs, can create some off the dribble, especially if you get another creator in there with LBJ, that take even more pressure off West...




Then you tie up more money in the PG position and are still stuck with our situation at the 2g and PF, which if you look at the stats is where we were really lacking...
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You named guys like Mehmet Okur and Derek Fisher. A few other names were dropped in there.....the Lakers aren't championship caliber without Pau Gasol this year though. As good as LeBron is, the proven formula is 2 big-time players. When I think of the statement "LeBron and 4 legit starters" I'm thinking of what LeBron currently has with an upgrade at some positions. I just don't think that is enough. Michael had Scottie, Shaq had Kobe and Dewayne, Tim Duncan has Parker and had David Robinson, Hakeem had Drexler.

LeBron needs a higher caliber player than just another upgrade at a position. That's why I don't see just filling in with a Derek Fisher/Mehmet Okur type player is significant enough.

I understand the hesitation of over-signinging, and we aren't in a position right now, but to me it's different with a guy like Barron or Gilbert. Both of these guys have been #1's before and both would know coming into Cleveland they are now the #2. Even if it isn't one of those guys, I'd like to see LeBron paired with a former #1. He needs someone who also knows how to take the big shot, and forces teams to cringe even if the ball isn't in LeBron's hands. We don't have another guy like that.
 
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billmac91;1166275; said:
LeBron needs a higher caliber player than just another upgrade at a position. That's why I don't see just filling in with a Derek Fisher/Mehmet Okur type player is significant enough.

I understand the hesitation of over-signinging, and we aren't in a position right now, but to me it's different with a guy like Barron or Gilbert. Both of these guys have been #1's before and both would know coming into Cleveland they are now the #2. Even if it isn't one of those guys, I'd like to see LeBron paired with a former #1. He needs someone who also knows how to take the big shot, and forces teams to cringe even if the ball isn't in LeBron's hands. We don't have another guy like that.
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You are right... no more role players. This team is full of them. We need a legit #2 guy. I love your idea of Baron Davis. He has the outside shot and can play defense.

Gilbert on the other hand... I am afraid he is another Larry Hughes. And what I mean about that is his recent injuries. Also the fact that he looked lost when he wasn't the #1 guy. Can he co-exist with LeBron? His game says yes, but his attitude and ego says no.

I would love Baron Davis, Redd and maybe Richardson from Charlotte (just throwing names out). Other options can come up as the offseason ramps up and names start leaking out that that want out. Ferry has no excuses cuz he has the contracts that he can trade for legit all stars.

I really think if we can get a real NBA calibur SG that this team can take off.
 
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billmac91;1166275; said:
You named guys like Mehmet Okur and Derek Fisher. A few other names were dropped in there.....the Lakers aren't championship caliber without Pau Gasol this year though. As good as LeBron is, the proven formula is 2 big-time players. When I think of the statement "LeBron and 4 legit starters" I'm thinking of what LeBron currently has with an upgrade at some positions. I just don't think that is enough. Michael had Scottie, Shaq had Kobe and Dewayne, Tim Duncan has Parker and had David Robinson, Hakeem had Drexler.
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I said them guys as legit starters...Remember we would need two of them to fill our roster with legit starters...We don't have legit starter at the 2g or PF...

Look at Dallas a couple years ago when it was Howard and Terry to go beside him...He took them to the championship, obviously they ran up against Shaq and a redhot DWade, but if you put LBJ in there instead of Dirk we are looking at a championship caliber team...Because LBJ is better than Dirk...That is 2 legit starters beside him, to go with a Dampier and Diop or whoever they had at the bigs...

LeBron needs a higher caliber player than just another upgrade at a position. That's why I don't see just filling in with a Derek Fisher/Mehmet Okur type player is significant enough.
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Why, LBJ takes players like that to the next level...

I understand the hesitation of over-signinging, and we aren't in a position right now, but to me it's different with a guy like Barron or Gilbert. Both of these guys have been #1's before and both would know coming into Cleveland they are now the #2. Even if it isn't one of those guys, I'd like to see LeBron paired with a former #1. He needs someone who also knows how to take the big shot, and forces teams to cringe even if the ball isn't in LeBron's hands. We don't have another guy like that.
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I have never said that I disagree with him needing a number 2, but you don't oversign for one...

I would like Davis more than Arenas, but you bring in Davis, you are still missing a 2g and a PF...

Great you have Davis and LBJ which is very good to go along with Z...But now you have mortgaged your future, because it is going to take a lot to get Davis...

We are already right around the cap, so not sure if we could even do something like this...

This moves a guy like West to the bench...Now you have two similar players in West and Boobie on the bench...Then we have no money, you are still stuck with no offense at the 2g and PF...The 2g gets real ugly when you think of Wally having to play another full season or a consistent lineup of 2 smaller guys West/Boobie to go along with Davis...

Look at the what the Mavs did...They mortgaged everything to get Kidd...It made them worse, even tho they ended up with 2 all-stars together...They were just fine at the point with Harris and Terry...

West showed great play during the playoffs at time...Going for 11 and 4...
 
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crazybuckfan40;1166311; said:
I said them guys as legit starters...Remember we would need two of them to fill our roster with legit starters...We don't have legit starter at the 2g or PF...

Look at Dallas a couple years ago when it was Howard and Terry to go beside him...He took them to the championship, obviously they ran up against Shaq and a redhot DWade, but if you put LBJ in there instead of Dirk we are looking at a championship caliber team...Because LBJ is better than Dirk...That is 2 legit starters beside him, to go with a Dampier and Diop or whoever they had at the bigs...



Why, LBJ takes players like that to the next level...



I have never said that I disagree with him needing a number 2, but you don't oversign for one...

I would like Davis more than Arenas, but you bring in Davis, you are still missing a 2g and a PF...

Great you have Davis and LBJ which is very good to go along with Z...But now you have mortgaged your future, because it is going to take a lot to get Davis...

We are already right around the cap, so not sure if we could even do something like this...

This moves a guy like West to the bench...Now you have two similar players in West and Boobie on the bench...Then we have no money, you are still stuck with no offense at the 2g and PF...The 2g gets real ugly when you think of Wally having to play another full season or a consistent lineup of 2 smaller guys West/Boobie to go along with Davis...

Look at the what the Mavs did...They mortgaged everything to get Kidd...It made them worse, even tho they ended up with 2 all-stars together...They were just fine at the point with Harris and Terry...

West showed great play during the playoffs at time...Going for 11 and 4...
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I consider Ben a legit 4. His offense is brutal, but the guy brings incredible defense.

Anyways, a line-up of Baron, Sasha, LeBron, BEn, and Z sounds pretty serious to me. I have no idea if that works under the cap, it probably doesn't, but I like that make-up.

Especially since Z is moving on soon, and Anderson can get out and run. Plus Boobie can play significant minutes with Baron.

And Boobie can be a starter in the league. He's short and his defense is suspect, but he's capable of being an upgrade at the 2. I think I'm going to go play with the trade generator and see what some options are....
 
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Wally and Sasha works for Redd....Milwaukee could unload Wally's 14.5 mill after the season plus get Sasha for 4.5 mill the next 2 seasons.

Baron/Gilbert/Atawn Jamison would have to be done in a sign-and-trade I'd think.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that something big happens this off-season.
 
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Ok we all some thoughts...I am going to put all mine in this post with some solid research and what I think we need, then you all can hammer me...:biggrin:

First thing is LBJ and Ferry need to be on the same page...If LBJ is really thinking of leaving then Ferry needs get all the talent he can now without the cost...If not then no reason to mortgage the future for next year if the year after might be the year when we can land that big time player...He also needs to find out what he thinks we need, how to open the court up for him...What pieces that we have now does he like...Is he a fan of West, etc...Then go from there...He also needs to find out LBJ feelings on Mike Brown and the offense...If LBJ dislikes Brown then can his ass...If not and all he thinks is we need an offensive coach, well then get one of them...

Now to the salary situation...

Big Ben is in on the books for 14,000,000 the next two years...

Lebron is on the books for 14 mill next year and 16 the year after and a player option for the year after...This means he is locked up for not next year but the year after...Is that correct?

Wally is due 13 mill next year...That is a great expiring contract to have...That means you can match just about any salary in the league for an expiring contract...

Z is due 11 next year and has a player option for the year after...

Snow is due 7 million which is another expiring contract...

Wild Thing is due 5 million next year and a player option for the year after...

Joe Smith is a FA according the link I am looking at, but I don't think that is right??

Pavs is due 4.5 next year and 5 the year after...

DJ has as expiring contract of 4.5 mill next year...

We are at 74 mill for next year...Not sure what the cap is going to be, but IMO we need to resign West, Boobie, and Smith...That will take about 12 mill or so IMO...5 for Smith and 4 for West and 3 for Boobie...So basically we don't have a lot of room...It is going to have to be a sign and trade type deal to get under the cap I believe...

With expiring contracts of Wally, DJ, Snow we have the guys to get that done...We also have 3 picks in 09 draft to maybe do some bargaining with but other than that there isn't anyone I see that someone is going to want to seriously trade for off our team...


Would next year be a better year in the offseason or a middle of the year trade to get something for the expiring contracts...

Then the year after you have everyone off the books other than LBJ's player option...

So we are looking at a good situation here in terms of being able to shop around for some Free agents...

Like I have said I think we need to look for a SG and PF...

Here are some stats that will have your jaw on the floor IMO...

PER ratings...It is just you average from one position vs the average of the other team against you from that position...

At PG we are -3.9...West was -2.4...So I think that overall his game will improve next year and this will be about even which is good considering that is about what we need from the PG with LBJ...Would be great to see him get on the positive side of this and I think he is very capable of doing that...His asst/TO is about 2-1...This is somewhere that he can improve upon, and I think he will...

At SG we are worst in the league...At -5.5 in the league...That is pitiful...Wally gave a solid 1.6, but is lack of creating is hurting the team...Also he has an expiring contract...We need a guy that shoots the ball well, can play off the dribble, get to the rim, and create a little for teammates...

At SF we are best in the league...At +8.2...

At PF we are +.3 which isn't bad...but I think alot of that had to do with Gooden...Because Wild Thing, Smith, and Wallace are in the -7 pt range...Smith due to lack of defense, and Wild Thing and Wallace due to lack of offense...We need a guy here that can run a pick n roll like a Malone or Boozer...who isn't stuck only popping off of a pick n roll, or not being able to shoot, but a guy that can roll to the hole, catch in traffic put the ball on the floor and score...

We are 11 in the league at C and that is pretty good considering Z only plays 64% of the minutes...I think at this point Andy can back up Z and do just fine as long as he is not counted on heavily at the PF...

The guy I really like in free agency is Andris Biedrins...He is a double double guy in only 27 minutes/game...averages a block per game, and shoots at a 62% clip and is still young...In the last 10 games of the season when the Warriors were fighting for he playoffs he was putting up 14 pts and 14 rbs...

I am not sure how he would fit in with Wallace, Andy, and Smith but, but he would be an upgrade over all 3 of them...

Some other guys maybe worth looking at are JR Smith, Jose Calderon, Monta Ellis, but once again the pg doesn't help...We need a SG, no question about it, and right now that is not really available in Free agency unless you go with Smith, but will he part with Denver and how would he interact here, and he is not a great creator....Redd would be ideal if we could swing a trade...

I will have a look at the draft later when I get a chance to look at that...But I would like to go with Brandon Rush at the moment I think, or Javale McGee if he is available...

We have the 6th worst bench in the NBA in terms of average pts/game
 
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First off about Joe Smith. Hoopshype has a blank for next year, normally it says $0 or a dollar figure. BUT, according to articles at the time of the trade it was mentioned that Joe Smith's contract goes through next year. (maybe an option year?) So I am thinking Joe Smith is signed through next year. Just no link to confirm that as I am too lazy to hunt for it.

cb40 is right, Ferry and LBJ need to have a meeting. If nothing else to get on the same page. LBJ is the franchise and they should keep him in the loop. Especially about the offense. Cuz really it could be one of 2 factors. It is either Brown is horrible at calling plays, or LeBron doesn't think highly of the play and changes it to his freelance play. And maybe... just maybe that is more the issue than anything else. And Brown knowing if he butts heads with LeBron knows he loses that battle 100% of the time.

Eventually there will be free agent articles and articles about who is availble via trade. But we just have to wait another month til the playoffs are over.

But until then it is draft talk, the Cavs have the 19th pick. Not great, but not horrible. It will be interesting to see what kind of players might be availble in part of the draft. It should either be a SG or a big and maybe a PG if the right one falls to us. The draft should give us an idea of what the front office's plan for the offseason is. Cuz if we draft a big then we will be in the trade market for every guard that might be available. But if we draft a SG or PG, then things will be interesting.

This is the offseason I have been looking forward too. We have contracts to trade and that is sometimes the most desirable assets to have. Andy might be on the block too as he signed that short contract in order to leave soon. So he might be desirable. Also Sasha can also be had as his contract isn't horrible. But I do know any trade rumors this offseason will have the Cavs mentioned, and that will be fun to talk about.
 
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The more I think about it the more I want the Cavs to draft a big. West and Boobie will get the job done at PG if they can add a SG through a trade. No SG that they draft this year will be able to help for a year or two and that is the position of greatest need now. Noted any big they draft this year probably won't help for a year or two either, but they have enough depth that they don't need an NBA ready player right now. They need a big that will be ready to give energy this year, contribute next year, and dominate in his 3rd year.
 
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