Cavs 07-08 Season Thread

[NFBuck]

Okay, here's a list I found (Google is a wonderful thing)...:tongue2:

Some names:
Arenas and Davis already discussed.

Iverson: Not worth discussing.

Elton Brand: If he can come back from the achilles injury, he could be a great addition, but will likely command a huuuuge salary.

Antawn Jamison: Meh, falls more into that complimentary role and would probably constitute a reach.

Corey Maggette: Could be a possibility, but would his game compliment LBJ's properly?

Shawn Marion: Getting up there in years, I don't know that he'd be worth a big contract.

Ron Artest: Great player, could be a perfect compliment to LBJ, but he's a headcase and has said he wants to stay in Sacramento.

Jermaine O'Neal: Injuries, injuries, injuries.

There's an E!spn list too, but it's blocked here at work.

Other RFA's out there...

Monta Ellis: Intriguing young player, but unproven.

Jose Calderon: A very nice PG prospect stuck behind T.J. Ford in Toronto. I love his game, but he's also an unproven quantity at this point.

 

[billmac91]

The thing with Kobe is that he is not the type of player that makes the guys around him that much better like LBJ does...Kobe did moreso this year, but before that not so much...

LBJ can score 30 while rebounding the ball and getting his teammates open looks...

Look how close we were last year with Hughes, Sasha, LBJ, Gooden, Z with a bench of Boobie, Wild Thing and Eric Snow...

Look how we competed this year with West, Wally, LBJ, Ben, Z with a bench of Boobie, Sasha, Wild Thing, and Joe Smith...

The bench was better, but the injuries, hold outs, trades, killed any momentum we were ever able to build...

Remember when we won a game with Damon Jones, LBJ, Snow, Billy Thomas, Z, and Wild Thing...That was a joke, but we won because of LBJ...

Wally is solid, but he can't create a shot for himself, and when in the playoffs and defense is real tough, he needs someone to create for him...He can't create for himself, like a solid 2g can...

IF we had someone that could create, then LBJ doesn't have to play so much on the ball...It doesn't have to be an all star, just a player in the league that can create...

As far as Ben and Andy, they don't bring much offense...Drew brought offense, but he had the mental capacity of a 3rd grader and would go with a good game followed by a game of 5 points...And his defense lacked big times at time...Joe Smith is the best guy we have had in terms of hitting the jumper, but he is up there in years, and doesn't do much off the dribble...LBJ would be lethal with a guy like a Karl Malone, Carlos Boozer type who could role off the pick n roll and catch the ball in traffic and still finish...Andy did at times last year in the play offs, but he struggles to hit free throws at times, and his jumper still needs lots of work...

I like West, and he is still young and getting used to playing with LBJ...If he can be a consistent 12 point guy, with his occasional 15-20 point games he will be a great option at pg, and he isn't a defensive liability...So while he is a legit NBA starter, would you take an all-star or a guy that might be looked as better, like say a Nash, Bibby, etc? No because they just don't bring the defense...

We are a great defensive team and can defend at all positions, that is why we can compete with anyone in the playoffs...We just need to get offensive options that can also play D...

In my opinion, you are playing with fire by assuming LeBron can get it done with 4 NBA starters....and then LeBron. LeBron is a beast, but he needs a big-time #2. Not a role player in Wally Z, Delonte West, Big Z, or Boobie Gibson. He needs a big-time player. Someone who doesn't need LeBron to create for them.

Hell, even Scottie Pippen took the Bulls to 50 wins without MJ.

You really can't name a team in recent history that hasn;t won the title without 2 big-time players. As good as LBJ is, he needs another guy.

It's up to Danny Ferry to get that guy here.

 

[Mac]

Ben Wallace was good for D, but I swear to god he's a waste of space on the offensive side of the court. Playing 5 v 4 on the offensive side of the ball, that's not good.

 

[MaxBuck]

My ideas:

1. Kneecap Sasha Pavlovic. He has to be the worst player in the NBA that gets meaningful minutes. What a joke.

2. Replace Mike Brown with Avery Johnson - a proven winner IMO.

3. TMac. Pay whatever it takes.

 

[exhawg]

Why would anyone want Arenas in Cleveland and why would he want to come here? Even even if both parties wanted to they would have to sign and trade for him. The Cavs have no cap space this year so they can't sign anyone for more that 5-6 million besides Boobie and West, who they will need to resign. They do have the pieces to make a Gasol type trade, but that will be hard to do during the off season. I'm holding out hope that the Bucks continue to suck next year and they can trade for Redd, but that is doubtful since they are in the same division. I would like to get Barron Davis, but that would require a sign and trade (assuming he can opt out) which would mean that the Warriors would have to be willing to get rid of him for little return since the Cavs don't really have any good players that they can trade this off season. They only have expiring contracts. I'd love to see them bring in a guy like Posey for the bench given his ability to d up and drain 3's.
I doubt the Cavs will be able to fill a hole in the draft this year given the pick, but IMO they need to take the player that will be the best in 2-3 years rather than next season.

 

[exhawg]

My ideas:

1. Kneecap Sasha Pavlovic. He has to be the worst player in the NBA that gets meaningful minutes. What a joke.

2. Replace Mike Brown with Avery Johnson - a proven winner IMO.

3. TMac. Pay whatever it takes.

How is Avery Johnson a proven winner? He couldn't get the best team in the NBA out of the first round last year.
I would deal for TMac in a second if Houston was willing to move him for expiring contracts and draft picks. Doubtful since he only has 2 years left on his deal.

 

[NFBuck]

Ben Wallace was good for D, but I swear to god he's a waste of space on the offensive side of the court. Playing 5 v 4 on the offensive side of the ball, that's not good.

He always was in Detroit too, but Detroit had more than one player capable of making up for it.

My ideas:

1. Kneecap Sasha Pavlovic. He has to be the worst player in the NBA that gets meaningful minutes. What a joke.
At times, he looks like an absolute amateur out there, but he's a decent warm body of the bench.

2. Replace Mike Brown with Avery Johnson - a proven winner IMO.
My reservations with Johnson are the (legit) chokes his teams have pulled in the postseason. He's a great regular season coach, but looks overmatched in the postseason. No way those Dallas teams should have been manhandled they were the past two postseasons.

3. TMac. Pay whatever it takes.
I wish.

Why would anyone want Arenas in Cleveland and why would he want to come here? Even even if both parties wanted to they would have to sign and trade for him. The Cavs have no cap space this year so they can't sign anyone for more that 5-6 million besides Boobie and West, who they will need to resign. They do have the pieces to make a Gasol type trade, but that will be hard to do during the off season. I'm holding out hope that the Bucks continue to suck next year and they can trade for Redd, but that is doubtful since they are in the same division. I would like to get Barron Davis, but that would require a sign and trade (assuming he can opt out) which would mean that the Warriors would have to be willing to get rid of him for little return since the Cavs don't really have any good players that they can trade this off season. They only have expiring contracts. I'd love to see them bring in a guy like Posey for the bench given his ability to d up and drain 3's.
I doubt the Cavs will be able to fill a hole in the draft this year given the pick, but IMO they need to take the player that will be the best in 2-3 years rather than next season.

Some wrangling would have to be done to get a star in here, but Danny Ainge proved it can be done. Ferry needs to get creative. Two years and the Cavs are on the clock...

 

[Mac]

Drop Eric Snow, Sasha, Big Ben OR Varejao, Damon Jones....

Add a big #2 guy with a few others

 

[exhawg]

Okur is the only name I like on that list, but he seems like a slightly younger version of Z to me. The rest of those guys are complimentary players and we need more than that IMO. We need a legit #2 guy to take the scoring pressure off of LeBron. We went the complimentary route 3 years ago with Hughes, Marshall, DJ et al and it yielded some success, but not enough to get to NBA title level.


I agree. Dantoni landing in NY has to turn up the pressure cooker. LBJ is built to run in his offense and he landed in the worst place possible for Cleveland. Somehow, someway, Ferry has to bring in another star player. Not more complimentary types. We have those.

Also, my distaste for Mr. Potatohead is well stated in this thread. I'd be impressed with Ferry's cajones if he were to ax him, but at the very least he needs to get Brown somebody to help develop an offensive system to better utilize LeBron's skills. If we stand pat with the same staff next season and don't make a serious run to get LeBron help on the court, I'm going to have a hard time giving damn.

Regardless of Dantoni Lebron can't go to the Knicks. They won't have any salary cap space to sign him.

 

[NFBuck]

Regardless of Dantoni Lebron can't go to the Knicks. They won't have any salary cap space to sign him.

Eh, maybe so, but there's ways to make space. It's the Knicks, it's LBJ in MSG, it's King James in a high octane, flashy offensive system on the world's biggest stage. David Stern is probably already staining his shorts at the idea. Maybe it's the pessimistic Cleveland fan in me, but if there's a way for it to happen, the Knicks brass and Stern will expedite it if even remotely possible.

 

[billmac91]

Eh, maybe so, but there's ways to make space. It's the Knicks, it's LBJ in MSG, it's King James in a high octane, flashy offensive system on the world's biggest stage. David Stern is probably already staining his shorts at the idea. Maybe it's the pessimistic Cleveland fan in me, but if there's a way for it to happen, the Knicks brass and Stern will expedite it if even remotely possible.

LeBron will not go anywhere besides Brooklyn. It's Brooklyn or Cleveland, bottom line. If he leaves Cleveland it is to rule the NBA with is best friend Jay-Z.

The Nets have quietly aligned themselves to be able to assemble a good team after next season. LOTS of money comes off the books. They want LBJ, and they want to sign players around him. Plus they get the added bonus of extra endorsemnt money they don't have to pay if he signs in Brooklyn.

That's why the Cavs need players NOW. Waiting until after next year is too much to ask.

And Barron Davis opted out so he's a free agaent. I don't know what restrictions he may have, if any, but it was a surprising move to at least Ric Bucher who thoight Barron was going to stay put.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

In my opinion, you are playing with fire by assuming LeBron can get it done with 4 NBA starters....and then LeBron. LeBron is a beast, but he needs a big-time #2. Not a role player in Wally Z, Delonte West, Big Z, or Boobie Gibson. He needs a big-time player. Someone who doesn't need LeBron to create for them.

Hell, even Scottie Pippen took the Bulls to 50 wins without MJ.

You really can't name a team in recent history that hasn;t won the title without 2 big-time players. As good as LBJ is, he needs another guy.

It's up to Danny Ferry to get that guy here.

Just curious if you really read what I said...I never said that he is going to get it done with guys like Wally, West, Z, and Boobie...I think we could work with 2 of those guys starting and 2 coming off the bench...

What I said is we need a guy or two that is not a guy that needs creating for himself...But doesn't have to be an all-star...

I am not saying don't go for the stars...But this isn't NBA live, We aren't going to field a team with LBJ, TMAC, Z, West, and Brand...

Lets get real here in talking about this...

West is the pg next year...We aren't going to get anyone in free agency IMO that is going to unseat him...I like West...Think he showed well in the playoffs, and plays well with LBJ...He can create some, plays solid defense, and is not a guy that needs LBJ to create all his shots for him...

SG - We don't have it on our roster...I don't think he can be a legit starter right away, maybe mid way thru the season...Wally needs too much creating for him...Boobie is a very good option off the bench...But he is not a legit starter, due to size and defense...I am still of the opinion you could go with a guy that is a SF type player that can shoot the ball run off screens, and create...LBJ is best suited for the SF in terms of definition of the position, but he can coexist with anothe SF type player...

PF - Not sure, don't know the contract situations, but no one on the roster is a PF type we need...Not sure where to go here...

C - Z is solid, but we are starting to need more of a back up type...I think that Andy does best in his back up role here...When we went with Wild Thing and Drew in the past, that would be best offense in terms of big guys...

People point to Danny Ainge, but he was dealing top draft picks, something we don't have...Remember when Isiah went out and spent a bunch of money, on a borderline guy like Zach randolph...That didn't pay off...No reason to overspend...

If LBJ is going to leave he is going to leave...Don't mortgage the franchise for one year...We are going to have the best chance to resign LBJ when he can get a new contract...So maybe the first year that LBJ resigns will be the best year...This is stuff that Ferry needs to talk to LBJ about...

 

[billmac91]

Just curious if you really read what I said...I never said that he is going to get it done with guys like Wally, West, Z, and Boobie...I think we could work with 2 of those guys starting and 2 coming off the bench...

What I said is we need a guy or two that is not a guy that needs creating for himself...But doesn't have to be an all-star...

I am not saying don't go for the stars...But this isn't NBA live, We aren't going to field a team with LBJ, TMAC, Z, West, and Brand...

Lets get real here in talking about this...

West is the pg next year...We aren't going to get anyone in free agency IMO that is going to unseat him...I like West...Think he showed well in the playoffs, and plays well with LBJ...He can create some, plays solid defense, and is not a guy that needs LBJ to create all his shots for him...

SG - We don't have it on our roster...I don't think he can be a legit starter right away, maybe mid way thru the season...Wally needs too much creating for him...Boobie is a very good option off the bench...But he is not a legit starter, due to size and defense...I am still of the opinion you could go with a guy that is a SF type player that can shoot the ball run off screens, and create...LBJ is best suited for the SF in terms of definition of the position, but he can coexist with anothe SF type player...

PF - Not sure, don't know the contract situations, but no one on the roster is a PF type we need...Not sure where to go here...

C - Z is solid, but we are starting to need more of a back up type...I think that Andy does best in his back up role here...When we went with Wild Thing and Drew in the past, that would be best offense in terms of big guys...

People point to Danny Ainge, but he was dealing top draft picks, something we don't have...Remember when Isiah went out and spent a bunch of money, on a borderline guy like Zach randolph...That didn't pay off...No reason to overspend...

If LBJ is going to leave he is going to leave...Don't mortgage the franchise for one year...We are going to have the best chance to resign LBJ when he can get a new contract...So maybe the first year that LBJ resigns will be the best year...This is stuff that Ferry needs to talk to LBJ about...

I did read what you said, and you named guys that wouldn't get the Cavs over the top. And you do overspend this off-season, because if LeBron does leave, so does the Cleveland franchise. If you don't think Dan Gilbert has been sniffing around, I think it's naive.

LeBron needs a complimentary player he feels he can win championships with. Bringing another plus player in doesn't do anything. At least if they pay top dollar for a Gilbert Arenas or Barron Davis they are getting a proven NBA player.

Honestly, you just give LeBron a list of available guys tomorrow and ask him who he wants and do your damnest to get it done. If it isn't possible, you get his #2 option. After that, you just wait until the trade deadline I guess.

And I'm not sold on Delonte West at PG. He had a good post-season, but his ball-handling skills were exposed by Rondo. He's a combo guard trying to play point in the NBA. He does a nice job knocking down the open look, but doesn't have the handling skills or speed to make defenders respect his penetrating ability. Even a non-shooter like Rondo has enough ball handling skills and spped to force the defender to respect his penetrating ability.

I'd love to see us bring a PG in and use Delonte off the bench. I think he could be VERY beneficial to a big-time PG. I'd love to see Gilbert or Barron in here, but doubt it happens. A guy like Delonte would keep both of them fresh, but I don't see Delonte as a critical component to a championship team.

 

[NFBuck]

"What we have is very good. We need to continue to get better. We know that if that means some personnel changes need to happen, then so be it," James said. "Right now I'm not thinking about it, but we do need to get better. The teams around us in this league are continuing to get better," including Orlando, the Los Angeles Lakers, Detroit, Boston and New Orleans.

James can't save Cavs despite memorable game - SI.com - 2008 NBA Playoffs

There it is, right from the horse's mouth.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

I did read what you said, and you named guys that wouldn't get the Cavs over the top. And you do overspend this off-season, because if LeBron does leave, so does the Cleveland franchise. If you don't think Dan Gilbert has been sniffing around, I think it's naive.

Tell me who I named specifically...If you think LBJ and 4 legit starters can't get the team over the top then please explain...A GM who overspends for the one player to get them over the top is a bad GM IMHO...It happens all over sports...Look at the Cavs with Hughes, The Reds with Griffey, I have seen it first hand too many times...If it is the right situation then you think about, but you better be damn sure it is the right situation, and don't make a move out of desperation to make a move...

LeBron needs a complimentary player he feels he can win championships with. Bringing another plus player in doesn't do anything. At least if they pay top dollar for a Gilbert Arenas or Barron Davis they are getting a proven NBA player.

To me that is just reaching for a name...BTW both of them are legit NBA starters, so I don't see how my theory is shot down...But those are not guys that you pay top dollar for IMO...I have given my reasons...Baron is getting up there in age, and Gilbert has quite the history of injuries...We already went down that road with Larry...

Honestly, you just give LeBron a list of available guys tomorrow and ask him who he wants and do your damnest to get it done. If it isn't possible, you get his #2 option. After that, you just wait until the trade deadline I guess.

yeah I said this when I basically said Ferry needs to sit down and discuss with LBJ what his plans and feelings are about Cleveland now and the future...

And I'm not sold on Delonte West at PG. He had a good post-season, but his ball-handling skills were exposed by Rondo. He's a combo guard trying to play point in the NBA. He does a nice job knocking down the open look, but doesn't have the handling skills or speed to make defenders respect his penetrating ability. Even a non-shooter like Rondo has enough ball handling skills and spped to force the defender to respect his penetrating ability.

Rando is probably one of the best defensive guards in the NBA...Delonte has good speed...PGs are hard to come by in the NBA...Yes he is not the best, but PG is not a need that I am worried about...I ride with West, he is cheap, played well in the playoffs, can create some off the dribble, especially if you get another creator in there with LBJ, that take even more pressure off West...

I'd love to see us bring a PG in and use Delonte off the bench. I think he could be VERY beneficial to a big-time PG. I'd love to see Gilbert or Barron in here, but doubt it happens. A guy like Delonte would keep both of them fresh, but I don't see Delonte as a critical component to a championship team.

Then you tie up more money in the PG position and are still stuck with our situation at the 2g and PF, which if you look at the stats is where we were really lacking...