Building a computer for gaming/other entertainment.

[Dryden]

PSUs can be overrated.

Some case vendors use quality PSUs stock, and you can run with those. InWin cases, for example, have long used 350W Powerman PSUs, and my experience with those has been very good. Been using those for nearly a decade now and don't have any complaints.

 

[BrutusMaximus]

For raw I/O, the Raptor is a beast. Considering the recommendation is for a desktop that will be used for music recording, movie encoding, Photoshop, etc, in addition to gaming, the Raptor will shave minutes off many of these tasks vs any other hard drive.

Agreed, but worth the price difference?

PSUs can be overrated.

Some case vendors use quality PSUs stock, and you can run with those. InWin cases, for example, have long used 350W Powerman PSUs, and my experience with those has been very good. Been using those for nearly a decade now and don't have any complaints.

Agreed again, and I have had just as many Antecs/Coolermasters, etc die than a brand I have never heard of, if not more.

 

[Dryden]

Agreed, but worth the price difference?

Absolutely. Nothing more frustrating than sitting at the computer and not doing anything because you're waiting out hard disk activity. What good is a fast processor & loads of RAM when they're sitting idle waiting on the hard drive?

 

[Buckeneye]

Give me an example. What exactly is it that it wont do?

What it won't do? Nothing as good as what the C2D can provide near the same pricing.

Agree and agree. The raptor is like a poor man's scsi, which isnt a bad thing, but you absolutely dont need the extra speed for what you're doing.

Poor man's Scsi? Not quite, I have two... and their excellent drives - but there hot and loud. Not to mention for the price of one X he can buy two Barracuda 7200.10's for a striped raid 0 and from what I've gotten out of them, can be just as good if not better than a single raptor. Not to mention the additional storage space.



Newegg.com - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - Internal Hard Drives

x2 will (overall)

Better than

Newegg.com - Western Digital Raptor WD740ADFD 74GB 10000 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 1.5Gb/s Hard Drive - Internal Hard Drives



I can't justify the purchase of one for a $700 computer...

Disagree. Have had no probs with them ever, unless maybe your precious intel stuff fries em?

Unless its issues with how long they last ( which I've had countless problems with) its the instability and lack of consistent production. Not quality units so the rails have unnecessarily large amounts of flux and the wattage rating is never accurate to what the unit can sustain.

What they give you are running optimal conditions, which half of the time most people aren't under.

PSU is the life blood of your machine, skimp on it, and sooner or later you'll pay the price.

 

[Buckeneye]

PSUs can be overrated.

Some case vendors use quality PSUs stock, and you can run with those. InWin cases, for example, have long used 350W Powerman PSUs, and my experience with those has been very good. Been using those for nearly a decade now and don't have any complaints.

some? Yes, VERY VERY FEW use quality PSU's with their cases.
Antec has fallen off over the past few year, and cooler master was never sitting right with me.


out of the 2 dozen or so case manufacter's from newegg, I might use the PSU from 5 of those companies in conjunction with
their cases.


As for powerman supplies, their simply rebranded FSP's... not bad, but nothing amazing.

 

[BrutusMaximus]

Poor man's Scsi? Not quite, I have two... and their excellent drives - but there hot and loud.

That actually came off worse than what I wanted to. I didnt mean to say they were bad drives at all, basically just meant they have scsi performance, but cheaper. I just think some of what has been recommended is overkill.

some? Yes, VERY VERY FEW use quality PSU's with their cases.
Antec has fallen off over the past few year, and cooler master was never sitting right with me.

Oh agreed, I didnt mean to say that the standard PS that comes with a case is amazing, I am just saying by the time you spend $100 on a good one, you might as well buy 7 mediocre ones as backup

 

[Buckeneye]

spend $100 on a good one

I haven't spent less than $100 for a PSU in any of my rigs in as long as I can remember.

edit; I lied. According to newegg, I dropped 99.99 + S&H on a Thermaltake 550 in early 2005...

Its been a while.

 

[BrutusMaximus]

I haven't spent less than $100 for a PSU in any of my rigs in as long as I can remember.

In my book, you're insane, but more power to ya

 

[Dryden]

In my book, you're insane, but more power to ya

Agree here. I'd rather drop $60 on a good case/PSU combo and have some money left over for a mid-sized APC w/ battery backup. Clean up the power-in and you don't need the $100+ PSU.

 

[Buckeneye]

In my book, you're insane, but more power to ya

Yeah, but after I learned a few hard lessons... I haven't had one rig fail to PSU issues.

Clean up the power-in and you don't need the $100+ PSU.

Yeah, but an APC can't provide the sufficient wattage and/or amps I require for my rigs.

You won't find anybody (intelligent) spending $60 on a PSU for high(er) end equipment.

 

[BrutusMaximus]

You won't find anybody (intelligent) spending $60 on a PSU for high(er) end equipment.

You're right. I am stupid.

 

[Dryden]

You won't find anybody (intelligent) spending $60 on a PSU for high(er) end equipment.

Wow. It's nice to have somebody point out that I'm too fucking stupid to build a computer. I've only been doing it for 15 years.

If the OP had asked for the $1500 ultimate gaming rig with RAID, SLI, and water cooling, I'd concede the point. For the $700 desktop, a $60 PSU is more than enough.

I guess I'd just rather be stupid and spend what I need to run the system than be "intelligent" and pay double or triple for a placebo.

 

[scooter1369]

PSU is overrated.

fify

 

[Buckeneye]

Wow. It's nice to have somebody point out that I'm too fucking stupid to build a computer. I've only been doing it for 15 years.

If the OP had asked for the $1500 ultimate gaming rig with RAID, SLI, and water cooling, I'd concede the point. For the $700 desktop, a $60 PSU is more than enough.

I guess I'd just rather be stupid and spend what I need to run the system than be "intelligent" and pay double or triple for a placebo.

easy there killer... I said high end equipment (refering to my own experiences) - and not the OP's $700 machine, otherwise I would have spoke up. I was in full agreement with you, this isnt a machine that needs overkill in any specified area. There are fine units far less than $60 that should suit his needs. The "ultimate" as you so put it is no where near in the thought of $1500, because its indeed far more expensive. However I'd prefer to spend what I need to run and keep the system running as opposed to taking chances.




Sorry if you interpreted my comment wrong, likewise I'll apologize for not being so specific, but if I wanted to call you stupid, I would have said something like...


"just because you've been doing it for 15 years, doesn't mean you've doing it right".


But I don't believe that, so how's about we stop with the :bicker:

 

[Dryden]

OK, FWIW I decided to run a test here at my office using my desktop to determine the peak load I would pull.

My work desktop is one that I built a little over a year ago. It is a Core 2 Duo 6600 @ 2.4Ghz, 2Gb RAM, a Radeon x1650, 2 WD Raptor X 150s, 1 DVD-Rom, 1 DVD-RW, and a 4Gb iRAM daughtercard. Runs Vista Business 64 with all the bells and whistles enabled, plus Office '07. Resolution is 1680x1050 high color to a 21" FP.

I went back into the server room and pulled a spare 15-amp, 17-outlet A-Neutronics pdu with LCD output to run my sys through. The A-Neutronics pdu pulls 1 watt by itself. From cold start, my PC peaked at 149 watts while spinning up both HDs and initializing video. Remaining boot time load hovered around 130-135 watts, hitting the low 140s again when bringing up the full screen login prompt and running through post boot procedures, then dropping to a steady 111 watts at idle.

I launched a demo copy of UTIII and entered the first level, which saw the system reach its peak draw at 154 watts.

Is my system high tech top of the line? No. But my point is this: PCs don't draw as much power as a lot of people seem to think they do. Already with two HDs, two optical drives, and 6Gb RAM (4 configured as a fixed solid state disk), I could pull the x1650 and pop in two higher end cards in an SLI config and still would barely clear 250 watt load.

Yes. Don't buy 'cheap' power supplies, however don't confuse cheap with cost rather than quality, and don't equate more expensive as meaning better. The trend towards 550 watt+ designer PSUs is as much a fad as windows and lights inside the case (and in some senses has been exacerbated by it, since you need more power for all those fans and pretty lights). Some high end PSUs are worth the investment and are necessary at the extreme end, but they are not necessary for everybody and it is foolish to recommend them with a blanket statement, particularly because a buyer could just as likely get suckered on a $100, 550 watt garbage PSU where they could have found a quality $30-40 350 watt PSU.

Bigger != better.