Big Ten Conference Divisions

[SloopyHangOn]

The sentiment about how much The Game means to people in this thread doesn't seem to add up to me with the sentiment about how changing the game from the last game of the year to the BigTen opener is going to instantly demolish its intensity. I honestly DO NOT understand how both of these things are not mutually exclusive. To me, BECAUSE of how HUGE of a rivalry The Game is, it's going to be immune to such a minuscule change.

 

[CHU]

The sentiment about how much The Game means to people in this thread doesn't seem to add up to me with the sentiment about how changing the game from the last game of the year to the BigTen opener is going to instantly demolish its intensity. I honestly DO NOT understand how both of these things are not mutually exclusive. To me, BECAUSE of how HUGE of a rivalry The Game is, it's going to be immune to such a minuscule change.

Celebrate Christmas in August.

People love it. It's great holiday. That's a minor change of a date.

 

[Zander42]

.... They also know that there isn't a single person among us that's going to stop watching Buckeye football because the conference decides to make changes to the premier rivalry in all of college football...

The awful truth rears it's ugly head. I know I'm guilty as charged. :ohwell:
:gobucks3::gobucks4:

 

[BB73]

The sentiment about how much The Game means to people in this thread doesn't seem to add up to me with the sentiment about how changing the game from the last game of the year to the BigTen opener is going to instantly demolish its intensity. I honestly DO NOT understand how both of these things are not mutually exclusive. To me, BECAUSE of how HUGE of a rivalry The Game is, it's going to be immune to such a minuscule change.

Personally, I've talked about The Game being diminished over time, rather than using words like "instantly demolish its intensity".

Others have said things like "it sucks" or "it's a tragedy", but that's because they feel strongly about the tradition of The Game; rather than saying its intensity will be instantly demolished.

But if you wish to make those of us who oppose the movement of The Game appear to be Chicken Littles, just let the hyperbole flow.

 

[JBaney45]

The sentiment about how much The Game means to people in this thread doesn't seem to add up to me with the sentiment about how changing the game from the last game of the year to the BigTen opener is going to instantly demolish its intensity. I honestly DO NOT understand how both of these things are not mutually exclusive. To me, BECAUSE of how HUGE of a rivalry The Game is, it's going to be immune to such a minuscule change.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PymIQ3BuNYA]YouTube - Ohio State vs. Michigan: The most important thing in the world[/ame]

Nothing will kill the rivalry, but when you have the absolute perfect setup for a game why do want to do something that has no potential to improve the rivalry, only diminish it?

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

I just want everyone that is equating Michigan being bad to them being put in a different division and moved earlier in the season to picture this. Michigan is good again Ohio State is still good Michigan beats Ohio State early in the season and goes on to lose to Nebraska, one loss Ohio State goes to happy valley to face undefeated Penn State. Ohio State beats Penn State in a great game, Buckeyes that made the trip rush the field celebrating the win and the upcoming match-up with Nebraska.

And if they win the Nebraska game and go to the BCS, they'll still not have beaten Mich1gAAn.

And the fact that that might not matter to them or to fans is what makes this move a horrible idea.

This.

I won't argue with you - your priorities are your priorities. But I just find it incredible that you'd pick 2) ahead of 5), given that you could absolutely have one or the other.

It's an Ohio State - Michigan thing: You wouldn't understand.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

The thought of a 12-1 Ohio State National Championship team with that 1 loss being Michigan makes me sick to my stomach. To be a truly great Ohio State team you have to win that game, period.

Not quite to a "sick to my stomach" degree, but I totally agree that it would significantly sour the meaning of being national champion, knowing that our only loss was to those fucks...

 

[Woody1968]

The sentiment about how much The Game means to people in this thread doesn't seem to add up to me with the sentiment about how changing the game from the last game of the year to the BigTen opener is going to instantly demolish its intensity. I honestly DO NOT understand how both of these things are not mutually exclusive. To me, BECAUSE of how HUGE of a rivalry The Game is, it's going to be immune to such a minuscule change.

How about the fact that it takes an entire season to gel as a team, and the quality of play could suffer as a result of moving to the start of the year?

 

[Huskerrat]

Lol then Hook Em I say.


Division A:
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Purdue
Indiana
Illinois

Division B
Penn State
Nebraska
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Iowa
Northwestern


Competitive Balance::
From a competitive balance perspective I tried to divide it up with some sense of the historical prowess of each team with an emphasis on the present, although not sooo much on the present that I don't consider a school like Michigan to be 1 of the main powers or consider Iowa as a power the same as OSU/Nebraska:


The "Big 4" OSU/Mich/Neb/PSU are split up

I would say that Wiscy and Iowa make up Tier 2, both ended up in B but I felt this was unavoidable.

Tier 3 id say is Purdue, Illinois and Sparty which we keep in A to balance out what Tier 2 gives to B. I think these schools have shown the capability to catch up with the Tier 2 schools and surpass at times.

I think the combined advantage of A in the Big 4 (with tOSU/Mich being the traditional BIG boys of the conference) and the advantage in tier 3 helps to balance out the obvious tier 2 imbalance. Obviously in the short run Michigan would hurt A and B would obviously be the better side but I don't want to be that short sighted with my divisions

The rest is the rest, Indiana, Minnesota, Northwestern. NW has had some good years which can help B


Protecting Rivalries

But the real core of my philosophy here was maintaining as many rivalries as possible, I considered the rivalries in terms of the 2 teams that each school plays every year now, and other games involving rivalry trophies and what not that aren't currently preserved each year:


Viewing from each schools perspective:

Ohio State: Maintains rivalry with Michigan, the Illibuck would become an annual thing. Would probably play Penn State in the preserved cross section game

Michigan: They get their 2 current rivalries preserved (tOSU and Sparty), the Little Brown jug "rivalry" with Minnesota is currently not played every year in the current setup. They could play Minny in the preserved cross division game, but I think Nebraska would like to have that game (with tOSU already taken)

Michigan State: Get to keep with Michigan, they lose their "rivalry" with PSU that the Big Ten tried to manufacture. They get to keep the rivalry game with Indiana (Old brass spittoon). Go ahead and match them up with Wisconsin for the cross divisional, not that important though.

Purdue: Gets to keep rivalry with Indiana and Illinois, go ahead and pair them up with Iowa for the hell of it, not that important.

Indiana: Keeps current games with Purdue and Illinois, along with having the Old Brass Spittoon game with MSU on yearly basis. Cross division it up with Minnesota in an unimportant one

Illinois: Gets to keep rivalry with Indiana, the Illibuck game is renewed on yearly basis. They would need the game with Northwestern preserved on the cross division thing but that was unavoidable.

Moving to Division B:

Penn State: They get an opportunity here to fight with Iowa over the end of the year rivalry game with Nebraska, either way they can establish a rivalry there to replace a rivalry with Michigan State that was kind of meaningless. I think it makes sense to give them Ohio State in the cross division game and preserve that.

Nebraska: Coming in new to the Big Ten has yet to establish rivals, but pairing them here with a natural geographic rival (Iowa) and another school still looking for their big rival (Penn State) made sense. Giving them Michigan in the cross division game makes sense giving them another big time match up maybe earlier in the season.

Wisconsin: Preserves rivalry game with Minnesota and Iowa, Gave them Michigan State in the cross division for the heck of it.

Minnesota: Keeps rivalries with Iowa and Wiscy, doesn't keep Michigan rivalry yearly but that one isn't yearly right now.

Iowa: Maintains rivalries with Wisconsin and Minnesota, gets a chance to establish a geographical rivalry with Nebraska. A protected game with Purdue isn't that much of a biggie but they didn't have a real obvious cross division rivalry

Northwestern: Their rivalry game with Illinois is the cross divisional one, they lose the current match up with Purdue but I've never really heard of that being a huge thing




So to recap:

Rivalries preserved within Division A:
Ohio State-Michigan (The Game)
Ohio State-Illinois (Illibuck) [Is not preserved currently]
Michigan-Michigan State (Paul Bunyan Trophy)
Purdue-Indiana (Old Oaken Bucket)
Purdue-Illinois (Purdue Cannon)
Illinois-Indiana
Indiana-Michigan State (Old Brass Spittoon}

Rivalries preserved within Division B:
Iowa-Wisconsin (Heartland Trophy)
Iowa-Minnesota (Floyd of Rosedale)
Wisconsin-Minnesota (Paul Bunyan's Axe)
Minnesota-Penn State (Governor's Victory Bell) [Not preserved currently]


Rivalries preserved with yearly "protected" game:
Ohio State-Penn State
Illinois-Northwestern (Land of Lincoln Trophy)


Rivalries not preserved on a yearly basis:
Penn State-Michigan State (Land Grant Trophy)
Michigan-Minnesota (Little Brown Jug) [Not preserved now]
Northwestern-Purdue

Potential for New rivalries:
Nebraska-Penn State (Divisional)
Nebraska-Iowa (Divisional)
Nebraska-Michigan (Cross Divisional)

Other cross Divisional games:
Purdue-Iowa
Wisconsin-MSU
Indiana-Minnesota

So lets get this straight, if Nebraska beats Penn St, Iowa, Wisky and cross rival Michigan...they get to play Ohio State? Why not put the Indy Colts in there way as well. That would be a pretty nasty schedule every year since in the coming years we have Tennessee, Miami and UCLA. I never like to shy away from a challenge but that would be murder's row.

 

[Best Buckeye]

So lets get this straight, if Nebraska beats Penn St, Iowa, Wisky and cross rival Michigan...they get to play Ohio State? Why not put the Indy Colts in there way as well. That would be a pretty nasty schedule every year since in the coming years we have Tennessee, Miami and UCLA. I never like to shy away from a challenge but that would be murder's row.

It would be a great chance for you to show us your wares......

 

[Taosman]

How about the fact that it takes an entire season to gel as a team, and the quality of play could suffer as a result of moving to the start of the year?

This is an excellent point as Tress has coached his teams to peak at seasons end. If you play earlier you won't have the game reps to improve.
You could be healthier, though. But, again there's no substitute for experience. Things are bound to change with the conference enlarging to 2 divisions. It's all about money.

 

[JBaney45]

So lets get this straight, if Nebraska beats Penn St, Iowa, Wisky and cross rival Michigan...they get to play Ohio State? Why not put the Indy Colts in there way as well. That would be a pretty nasty schedule every year since in the coming years we have Tennessee, Miami and UCLA. I never like to shy away from a challenge but that would be murder's row.

My other proposal would be to trade Minnesota-Wiscy for Purdue-Indiana

That would leave things a little bit more balanced short term while only losing a couple less important (to the schools themselves) rivalries.

 

[MaliBuckeye]

Reflection on Stuart Mandell's "best guess" for Rivalry Week in a reconfigured Big T1e2n:

Your final regular-season Saturday, which almost certainly would feature intra-division games, could look like this: Michigan-Michigan State, Iowa-Nebraska, Illinois-Northwestern, Ohio State-Penn State, Wisconsin-Minnesota and Purdue-Indiana.

So, in order to maintain Wisc/Minn, Ill/NU, PU/IU, we're going to sacrifice The Game and the Land Grant Game between PSU and MSU.

In other words, we're throwing out the rivalries of the three most prominent members of the current conference in hopes of... what exactly?

 

[stxbuck]

Destroying The Game would be utter sacrilege-I can't imagine JT would back that idea-but RR probably would.

 

[SloopyHangOn]

Personally, I've talked about The Game being diminished over time, rather than using words like "instantly demolish its intensity".

Others have said things like "it sucks" or "it's a tragedy", but that's because they feel strongly about the tradition of The Game; rather than saying its intensity will be instantly demolished.

But if you wish to make those of us who oppose the movement of The Game appear to be Chicken Littles, just let the hyperbole flow.

You're right. Poor choice of words on my part, but the point still stands.

Really, there's more than a little bit of exaggeration in this thread.

Of course that's only coming from the side that feels like people are making too much out of the idea of moving The Game, right:

Celebrate Christmas in August.

People love it. It's great holiday. That's a minor change of a date.

Destroying The Game would be utter sacrilege-I can't imagine JT would back that idea-but RR probably would.

*cough*

Nothing will kill the rivalry, but when you have the absolute perfect setup for a game why do want to do something that has no potential to improve the rivalry, only diminish it?

It seems obvious that Delany's interest is not to improve the tSUN/tOSU rivalry but to improve revenue and conference quality. This kind of move would certainly be in line with the latter, even if it is at the cost of taking half of a notch off of The Game.

Not quite to a "sick to my stomach" degree, but I totally agree that it would significantly sour the meaning of being national champion, knowing that our only loss was to those fucks...

This here, is about where I stand. Fuck Michigan. Hard and up the ass. If the Buckeyes win the National Championship and DON'T beat tSUN I'm not going to enjoy it as much as I would otherwise. HOWEVER, I'm not going to complain about what the game would lose if the good guys continue to win THE Game and big games elsewhere.