Big Ten Conference Divisions

[Buckeye86]

If I'm "the new guy" you refer to

nope, I was talking about Penn State all the way

I actually have to explain to you why moving The Game from the last regular season game significantly diminishes the impact of The Rivalry, then I'm afraid you may never get it...

It is obvious that moving it earlier in the year would diminish the implications of the game, but I don't see why it would diminish the intensity of the rivalry.

As Mr. Phatsacs points out, the implications are diminished regardless of where the game is at due to the addition of the championship game.

 

[CHU]

I look into my crystal ball and I see tOSU wearing alternate jerseys against a 3-6 scUM in October.

[censored] that [censored].

I was thinking black uniforms with black helmets from Nike. Why not right?

They're already screwing with traditions that date back more than a century, might as well finish her off.

Dot the I with a flaming arrow from C-Deck.

 

[BB73]

The addition of the CCG will have an impact on The Game. But it needs to be protected as much as possible to keep it special.

Let's look at other rivalries that have been affected by conference and divisional changes:

Bama-Auburn: In the same division, kept as the season-ender, and they hate each other about as much as ever

Bama-Tenn: In separate divisions, they kept the 3rd (or 4th) Saturday in October traditional schedule, but most folks outside the South don't even know this is a protected rivalry game

Fla-Georgia: In the same division, kept the WLOCP location and timing, and it's still a great tradition and a game that matters

Okla-Neb: split into separate divisions, didn't retain the protected rivalry status of playing every year, and a game that was once in the top-5 of all college football rivalies pretty much withered away

Okla-Texas: placed in the same division, kept its traditional timing and location at the Texas State Fair, and has blossomed into one of the top-5 college rivalries

Fla St-Miami: placed in separate divisions (most fans can't tell you which team is in Coastal and which is in Atlantic), and the timing of the game was moved from the second half of the season to the opener in order to allow the losing team to have a chance to recover for an NC run, and to have time between the first game and a possible CCG rematch; the timing of the game has been moved again (I'd have to look up when they play this year), and they've yet to meet in the ACC CCG

USC-UCLA: Ask most fans in LA about the placement of the teams in PAC-12 divisions in the next couple of years and they'd say "Whoa, did the Pac 10 expand?"

So, to sum up:

Same division: Bama-Auburn, Fla-UGA, Tex-Okla - all are still a big thing

Separate divisions: Okla-Neb, FSU-Miami, Bama-Tenn - none of them are what they once were

I think it shouldn't take a PhD in Astronomy to figure out what to do with TSUN and tOSU.

 

[Muck]

Just out of curiosity, you don't see a good chance of "Potential for New rivalries" including OSU-Nebraska?

Big fan of how those Colorado & Missouri rivalries replaced Nebraska/Oklahoma are ya?

 

[jlb1705]

It is obvious that moving it earlier in the year would diminish the implications of the game, but I don't see why it would diminish the intensity of the rivalry.

It won't diminish the intensity... at first. In ten years' time though, when the first generation is coming through either watching or playing in the game (now lowercase) is it going to maintain that intensity or is it going to be just another mid-season game? That new generation won't remember the high stakes of The Game, they won't remember having their hearts ripped out, or the glory of your team having done the ripping.

People want to point out all of the other "big" rivalries that are played at different times of year or whatever. I thought this rivalry was bigger, better, and more special than those? There are a lot of teams that hate each other. Any rivalry can replicate that. What has separated Ohio State-M*ch*g*n are the timing and the stakes. When the first people come of age who have never experienced that, some of the intensity will diminish too.

As Mr. Phatsacs points out, the implications are diminished regardless of where the game is at due to the addition of the championship game.

It's the far lesser of two evils though. Despite the presence of the championship game at the end, any model that has Ohio State & M*ch*g*n playing in the same division and in the last game before the CCG is superior to any proposal that does not include that. The presence of the CCG does diminish it some. Instead of playing for the conference title perhaps they're playing for a division title. There's a difference between diminishing it and just completely fucking nuking it though, and that's what's being done here.

The only way to make an Ohio State-M*ch*g*n game more meaningless than what they're planning to do would be for them to be in separate conferences entirely.

 

[Buckeye86]

It is obvious that moving it earlier in the year would diminish the implications of the game, but I don't see why it would diminish the intensity of the rivalry.

As Mr. Phatsacs points out, the implications are diminished regardless of where the game is at due to the addition of the championship game.

I guess to bring my thoughts full circle, I don't understand how moving the game around diminishes the intensity of the rivalry any less than Michigan being 0-11 heading into the game every year, given that no matter what, the game isn't going to have championship implications directly riding on it as it used to thanks to the championship game.

That being said, what BB73 said 100%.

Edit: and what jlb said

I just think it's funny that just a few months ago people were thumping their chest about how Michigan losing didn't affect the rivalry, but now this does... Michigan needs to be good, and we need to play at the end of the year, otherwise, what they said.

 

[DallasHusker]

Big fan of how those Colorado & Missouri rivalries replaced Nebraska/Oklahoma are ya?

To repeat, with emphasis: I'd never in a million years advocate a Nebraska-OSU rivalry replacing The Game. He listed a number of "potential new rivalries" and personally, as I've said, I'd LOVE to see a Nebraska-OSU rivalry arise and grow.

Also, I personally place OSU, and therefore a rivalry with OSU - much MUCH higher than either Colorado or Missouri. Don't you? :tongue2:

 

[jlb1705]

Like the foreshadowing in LeBron's lefthanded free throw, we should have seen this shit coming when they put the Marshall game on Thursday night.

 

[Muck]

Also, I personally place OSU, and therefore a rivalry with OSU - much MUCH higher than either Colorado or Missouri. Don't you? :tongue2:

Honestly I place a rivalry with Nebraska at about the same level as one with Missouri or Colorado (or the longstanding one with Iowa).

It just isn't that important to me.

It's the same with this silliness that people are spouting about a rivalry with Penn State.

Penn State wants a rivalry with Ohio State. Ohio State doesn't have a rivalry with Penn State. Penn State isn't any different than Purdue...they've upset the Bucks a couple of times but otherwise don't matter much.

 

[DallasHusker]

Honestly I place a rivalry with Nebraska at about the same level as one with Missouri or Colorado (or the longstanding one with Iowa).

It just isn't that important to me.

I give OSU much more credit and respect for their history, record and winning tradition than I do Iowa or Wisconsin. Sorry you're not willing to accord Nebraska the same respect.

Fair enough though. I'll try to remember to ask you again the first time we beat you and knock you out of a BCS bowl in the Big Ten championship game. :tongue2:

 

[Muck]

I give OSU much more credit and respect for their history, record and winning tradition than I do Iowa or Wisconsin. Sorry you're not willing to accord Nebraska the same respect.

Stop acting like Penn State fan.

Not seeing Nebraska as a bitter rival has nothing to do with 'respect'.

And let's be perfectly clear Nebraska has zero history, record or winning tradition within the Big Ten.

That's not a slight against the program, it's just acknowledging the fact that Nebraska has spent it's entire (yes gloried) existence outside of the realm of the Big Ten.

Fair enough. I'll try to remember to ask you again the first time we beat you and knock you out of a BCS bowl in the Big Ten championship game. :tongue2:

I'll be far more annoyed if Northwestern ever does it.

 

[jlb1705]

I guess to bring my thoughts full circle, I don't understand how moving the game around diminishes the intensity of the rivalry any less than Michigan being 0-11 heading into the game every year, given that no matter what, the game isn't going to have championship implications directly riding on it as it used to thanks to the championship game.

That being said, what BB73 said 100%.

Edit: and what jlb said

I just think it's funny that just a few months ago people were thumping their chest about how Michigan losing didn't affect the rivalry, but now this does... Michigan needs to be good, and we need to play at the end of the year, otherwise, what they said.

M*ch*g*n losing certainly does affect the rivalry, but that's their problem.

I say it all the time: My job is to root for them to suck and to get pounded by Ohio State when it matters most. Their job it to not suck in spite of my wishes. I'm holding up my end of the bargain, they need to hold up theirs.

At least the losing part - they control their own destiny and they could recover from it. If you fiddle with the rivalry from a structural standpoint (timing, stakes), there's no getting that back.

 

[JBaney45]

OK, fair enough. Personally, I'd rather see the OSU-Nebraska rivalry arise and grow rather than the "sort of" PSU rivalry you have, but nobody's going to get everything they want when this is all said and done, I'm afraid.

I don't really have a preference between PSU and Nebraska per say. I'd think that PSU would be more interested in the cross divisional game with us as opposed to Michigan, just the geographic thing and sort of feeding off the high school rivalry between Ohio and Western PA (even if PSU is central PA). It would be more of a carrot to shut the guys in Happy Valley up. They'd be getting the chance to develop a #1 rival in Nebraska which both teams probably are looking for (Sorry Husker's you could never be more then our #2 :( )

I mean regardless if we're going to a 9 game schedule we're only going to miss 2 teams every year, it's not like there is no potential to ever have rivalry games with teams that aren't protected, there are just certain instances where not protecting it would be unacceptable (ala tOSU-Mich)

 

[CHU]

I'll just keep saying it:

"This deal is getting worse all the time." - Lando

 

[jlb1705]

I give OSU much more credit and respect for their history, record and winning tradition than I do Iowa or Wisconsin. Sorry you're not willing to accord Nebraska the same respect.

Fair enough though. I'll try to remember to ask you again the first time we beat you and knock you out of a BCS bowl in the Big Ten championship game. :tongue2:

I'll be far more annoyed if Northwestern ever does it.

Somebody hasn't paying attention to Northwestern for the last 15 years. If Ohio State is on their schedule, they aren't winning shit.