Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[glenn]

cleve, i'm no expert on the political situation, but my impression is that texas govt probably wouldn't hamstring us like it did 15 years ago. the climate has changed. a couple of meddling types are no longer in place, and the panhandle region where tech is located doesn't have the legislative clout it had back then. and, for that matter, the schools may not be as enamored of nursing behavior these days. certainly, baylor's situation has been unpleasant. they've been in over their heads since the get-go, and when you look at them with respect to tcu and smu, who looks like it worked for them?

i have seen it said that the legislature and state officials may want to see that the four texas schools have a good place to be, whether that means the bog 12 brings in tcu, say, and is stable or they find a happy-looking home elsewhere before they agree to stay to their knitting.

regardless, the days of state government in texas acting like kindergarten teachers and dictating which kids play with which appears to be a relic of the dopey past.

 

[BUCKYLE]

cleve, i'm no expert on the political situation, but my impression is that texas govt probably wouldn't hamstring us like it did 15 years ago. the climate has changed. a couple of meddling types are no longer in place, and the panhandle region where tech is located doesn't have the legislative clout it had back then. and, for that matter, the schools may not be as enamored of nursing behavior these days. certainly, baylor's situation has been unpleasant. they've been in over their heads since the get-go, and when you look at them with respect to tcu and smu, who looks like it worked for them?

i have seen it said that the legislature and state officials may want to see that the four texas schools have a good place to be, whether that means the bog 12 brings in tcu, say, and is stable or they find a happy-looking home elsewhere before they agree to stay to their knitting.

regardless, the days of state government in texas acting like kindergarten teachers and dictating which kids play with which appears to be a relic of the dopey past.

Where are the two kids in the ESPN 150? :p

 

[Muck]

ORD you want to go Big? I'll give you freaking BIG.

Screw this pussy footin' around 12 or 14 team BS. Whenever this thing goes down it's going to blow up the current conference structure anyways (just like adding Penn State did a decade and a half again) so why not blow it all out of the water?

Gank Texas AND Missouri from the Big 12.

Texas legislature doesn't like it? Fine, fine we'll take A&M as well.

Syracuse welcome aboard.

Hey Boston College...you're not really comfortable with that tobacco road flavor are you? How would you like to jump back into a conference a little closer to home, that has some of your historical rivals, is by far the most powerful conference in the land academically & can offer you resources the ACC can only dream of?

How does 16 teams and a TV market from New England (did I mention Boston is the #7 TV market nationally?) to Texas grab you?

Well just hold on because we aren't done yet.

ND are you feeling a big lonely yet? Well you have a choice...get on board the hyper conference train or you will NEVER play a Big Ten team again. We will make sure every recruiting pipeline you have in the region goes dry. Really want to get scared? How about if we offer UC membership (and we'll even help them turn that crap hole into a world class University) so that all those nice Cincinnati kids have TWO serious options to stay in the State of Ohio rather than BFE South Bend. How does THAT grab ya?

Don't like that? Well then you can join us or wither on the vine. Your choice. It's now or never.

Yeah thought that might change your mind a bit. Welcome aboard.

Wait that's only 17 schools you say?!

University of Toronto come on down!

Yeah it'll take a couple of years to get your FB up to speed...but that's fine we're patient. You thought getting the Big Ten Network into every household in Texas was big, we just sold it to an entire friggin' nation! We can afford to ease you into things.

Think maybe Canada has some talent that wants to play American style football rather than that 110 yard, 3 down imitation? It just might...and guess which school just became the dream school for every single player in the country? That's right kids the Varsity Blues just became THE team to root for in Canuckistan.

So where does that leave us? Well this is where some hard choices have to be made and some old traditions might get twisted...

18 teams gives us two 9 team conferences. Want to bring back the Western Conference? Have at it!

Purdue, Wisconsin, TSUN, Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern

Just like old times eh?

Well add in Texas, A&M, Missouri & Iowa and now THAT's a serious Western conference.

Wait a minute...that's ten teams you say? And TSUN with no Buckeyes?! WTF?!!

Hey I said some tough choices were going to have to be made didn't I?
One of you original Western Conference schools is just going to have to bite the bullet & make the leap to the "new" Eastern Conference. No sorry TSUN it's not going to be you. ND, Ohio State, Penn State & TSUN in one conference is just a bit too much...don't want to repeat the Big 12 mistakes do we?

What about Iowa you say? They weren't an original Western Conference member....you're absolutely right. They are however the closest school to the newest members from farther S & W. We want to make things as comfortable for our new brothers as possible...and giving them Iowa as a Conference mate is a necessity.

I didn't say this would be painless.

What about you Texas fans; do those traveling distances look a little bit more palatable to ya? I thought so.

Northwestern...that probably means you're it. I know, I know...you're a founding member and all but let's face it you really do have an East Coast mentality in a lot of ways so the transition shouldn't be too hard for ya (hey if you can get Purdue to switch with ya...have at it...).

So let's see the new reborn Western Conference:
TSUN, Texas, T&AM, Wisconsin, Iowa, Missouri, Illinois, Purdue, Minnesota

Damn that's not a bad looking bunch at all is it! Things will a big harder travel wise than the old affiliations but not too hateful.

So what does that give us in the newly minted Eastern Conference?
Nortwestern, Penn State, Notre Dame, Indiana, Boston College, Syracuse, MSU, The University of Toronto

...and finally our beloved Ohio State University Buckeyes

Calm down Spartans I know it's a bit tough being pulled away from your in-state rival...how the hell do you think we feel in Columbus? It's almost blasphemous and it makes me feel a bit dirty...but you wanted BIG right? Rivalry week will still be there...the week before The Big Ten Championship Game you get to play your big rival (sorry but TSUN is OUR big rival)...the forced PSU rivalry still doesn't feel quite right? Try on that cross bridge rivalry with the Varsity Blues for size....a bit weird right now I know but in 100 years it'll be as natural as watching your team implode down the stretch is now.

Oh ND that means you and PSU can start up that former independent wanna be East Coast rivalry you both so richly deserve...hope the 'Nits kick your heads in every year.

Well BIG ain't gonna big easy and it's going take some difficult sacrifices from all of us...but you asked for it so by gawd I gave it to you.

The nation's first Hyper Conference.

The New BIG Ten

Western Conference
University of Michigan
University of Texas
University of Wisconsin
University of Iowa
University of Missouri
University of Illinois
University of Minnesota
Purdue University
Texas A&M University

Eastern Conference:
The Ohio State University
Nortwestern University
Penn State University
Indiana University
Michigan State University
Syracuse University
Boston College
University of Notre Dame
University of Toronto

 

[kn1f3party]

That isn't BIG, that is ginormous. We would have to pray for a playoff lest we want Big Ten teams to be knocked out of championship contention annually.

 

[MaxBuck]

I have not read this entire thread but I have noticed there has been a lack of discussion of the nonrevenue sports with almost all of the conversation around football and, to a lesser extent, basketball. I understand the income part of it but I think quite a few of you are disregarding the margin of profit.

My point is this. If we win at Texas to the Big Ten granted it would be a huge football and basketball windfall for the conference but then you also have to look at the expense side of the nonrevenue sports traveling major miles to Texas and I do not think they would be bus trips. I know that many of you do not care about the nonrevenue sports but you might want to remember Title IX which comes into play.

You think they take buses from Minneapolis to State College?

 

[MaxBuck]

ORD you want to go Big? I'll give you freaking BIG.

Screw this pussy footin' around 12 or 14 team BS. Whenever this thing goes down it's going to blow up the current conference structure anyways (just like adding Penn State did a decade and a half again) so why not blow it all out of the water?

Gank Texas AND Missouri from the Big 12.

Texas legislature doesn't like it? Fine, fine we'll take A&M as well.

Syracuse welcome aboard.

Hey Boston College...you're not really comfortable with that tobacco road flavor are you? How would you like to jump back into a conference a little closer to home, that has some of your historical rivals, is by far the most powerful conference in the land academically & can offer you resources the ACC can only dream of?

How does 16 teams and a TV market from New England (did I mention Boston is the #7 TV market nationally?) to Texas grab you?

Well just hold on because we aren't done yet.

ND are you feeling a big lonely yet? Well you have a choice...get on board the hyper conference train or you will NEVER play a Big Ten team again. We will make sure every recruiting pipeline you have in the region goes dry. Really want to get scared? How about if we offer UC membership (and we'll even help them turn that crap hole into a world class University) so that all those nice Cincinnati kids have TWO serious options to stay in the State of Ohio rather than BFE South Bend. How does THAT grab ya?

Don't like that? Well then you can join us or wither on the vine. Your choice. It's now or never.

Yeah thought that might change your mind a bit. Welcome aboard.

Wait that's only 17 schools you say?!

University of Toronto come on down!

Yeah it'll take a couple of years to get your FB up to speed...but that's fine we're patient. You thought getting the Big Ten Network into every household in Texas was big, we just sold it to an entire friggin' nation! We can afford to ease you into things.

Think maybe Canada has some talent that wants to play American style football rather than that 110 yard, 3 down imitation? It just might...and guess which school just became the dream school for every single player in the country? That's right kids the Varsity Blues just became THE team to root for in Canuckistan.

So where does that leave us? Well this is where some hard choices have to be made and some old traditions might get twisted...

18 teams gives us two 9 team conferences. Want to bring back the Western Conference? Have at it!

Purdue, Wisconsin, TSUN, Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern

Just like old times eh?

Well add in Texas, A&M, Missouri & Iowa and now THAT's a serious Western conference.

Wait a minute...that's ten teams you say? And TSUN with no Buckeyes?! WTF?!!

Hey I said some tough choices were going to have to be made didn't I?
One of you original Western Conference schools is just going to have to bite the bullet & make the leap to the "new" Eastern Conference. No sorry TSUN it's not going to be you. ND, Ohio State, Penn State & TSUN in one conference is just a bit too much...don't want to repeat the Big 12 mistakes do we?

What about Iowa you say? They weren't an original Western Conference member....you're absolutely right. They are however the closest school to the newest members from farther S & W. We want to make things as comfortable for our new brothers as possible...and giving them Iowa as a Conference mate is a necessity.

I didn't say this would be painless.

What about you Texas fans; do those traveling distances look a little bit more palatable to ya? I thought so.

Northwestern...that probably means you're it. I know, I know...you're a founding member and all but let's face it you really do have an East Coast mentality in a lot of ways so the transition shouldn't be too hard for ya (hey if you can get Purdue to switch with ya...have at it...).

So let's see the new reborn Western Conference:
TSUN, Texas, T&AM, Wisconsin, Iowa, Missouri, Illinois, Purdue, Minnesota

Damn that's not a bad looking bunch at all is it! Things will a big harder travel wise than the old affiliations but not too hateful.

So what does that give us in the newly minted Eastern Conference?
Nortwestern, Penn State, Notre Dame, Indiana, Boston College, Syracuse, MSU, The University of Toronto

...and finally our beloved Ohio State University Buckeyes

Calm down Spartans I know it's a bit tough being pulled away from your in-state rival...how the hell do you think we feel in Columbus? It's almost blasphemous and it makes me feel a bit dirty...but you wanted BIG right? Rivalry week will still be there...the week before The Big Ten Championship Game you get to play your big rival (sorry but TSUN is OUR big rival)...the forced PSU rivalry still doesn't feel quite right? Try on that cross bridge rivalry with the Varsity Blues for size....a bit weird right now I know but in 100 years it'll be as natural as watching your team implode down the stretch is now.

Oh ND that means you and PSU can start up that former independent wanna be East Coast rivalry you both so richly deserve...hope the 'Nits kick your heads in every year.

Well BIG ain't gonna big easy and it's going take some difficult sacrifices from all of us...but you asked for it so by gawd I gave it to you.

The nation's first Hyper Conference.

The New BIG Ten

Western Conference
University of Michigan
University of Texas
University of Wisconsin
University of Iowa
University of Missouri
University of Illinois
University of Minnesota
Purdue University
Texas A&M University

Eastern Conference:
The Ohio State University
Nortwestern University
Penn State University
Indiana University
Michigan State University
Syracuse University
Boston College
University of Notre Dame
University of Toronto

You need two more teams so we can be back to the Big Ten - two 10-team divisions. :) Nebraska and Pitt would do the trick.

 

[kn1f3party]

You need two more teams so we can be back to the Big Ten - two 10-team divisions. :) Nebraska and Pitt would do the trick.

In that scenario I say we send both of our division champions to BCS bowls regardless of who wins the conference championship--reserve the Rose Bowl for the champion though.

 

[DaveyBoy]

Hey, Glenn.....

what is your take on the relationship between Kansas University and University of Texas ? Let's face it, those 2 schools are the elite of the elite in their respective sports and it would be really interesting if the BigTen could snag Texas, Kansas, Missouri, and Nebraska. If not all 4, then certainly KU and UT.

does KU consider itself an elite university in the same air as Texas ? Personally, I think KU and Colorado are the 2 universities in the Big12 that I consider realy good combinations of academics/sports/endowment. I realize Colorado has hit some rough times, but in the long run it is an outstanding place.

Kansas and Texas, in my opinion, are the two real gems of the Big12

 

[glenn]

Hey, Glenn.....

what is your take on the relationship between Kansas University and University of Texas ? Let's face it, those 2 schools are the elite of the elite in their respective sports and it would be really interesting if the BigTen could snag Texas, Kansas, Missouri, and Nebraska. If not all 4, then certainly KU and UT.

does KU consider itself an elite university in the same air as Texas ? Personally, I think KU and Colorado are the 2 universities in the Big12 that I consider realy good combinations of academics/sports/endowment. I realize Colorado has hit some rough times, but in the long run it is an outstanding place.

Kansas and Texas, in my opinion, are the two real gems of the Big12

interesting question. actually several.

first, i think you need to forget about nebraska. read back over the past several days and you'll get a better picture there. unless you guys are willing to totally throw out many of the founding principles of the big ten, i don't think you could get them to bite on it, anyway. i like nebraska, and a part of me thinks that what they like to do is a good thing. i mean, guys with adequate football smarts who can't write much more than their names still deserve a chance at the bigtime in the league. they've got to get past the anachronistic hurdle of college somehow. be aware that if partial qualifiers didn't have to sit out a year, nebraska would be perfectly comfortable to trot out an entire roster of kids who couldn't get into lsu. wrap you mind around that thought.

regarding the cic, i have no doubt that nebraska could bring a whole new awareness among your membership of late-breaking developments in the understanding of intestinal parasites in ruminants.

missouri? i am really pretty astonished at the score the us news people accorded missouri. i have serious doubts that missouri is no better academically than oklahoma. that said, if the us news folks realized there was a clerical error and missouri's correct score is HALF what they posted, they would still lower your conference average. now, let that settle into your thinking.

but kansas. certainly kansas is way high in the cream of programs in basketball. but read the piece from frank the tank:

The Big Ten Expansion Index: A Different Shade of Orange ? FRANK THE TANK’S SLANT

concentrate not on who he recommends but on how he frames the questions. most clued-in observers see the forces in pretty much the light he sees them. you really have to adopt the viewpoint of the college president to understand what is getting ready to happen.

basketball is a revenue sport but nothing like football. basketball is a significant piece of the puzzle but football is most of the puzzle.

so what about kansas football? haven't they been pretty good recently?

yes, they have been pretty high profile. but now that they've released idi amin, how comfortable are we that the next coach will be able to move them forward? for that matter, how good have they been, really? certainly they went through a very high profile period, but when nut-cutting time came they faded. moreover, let's look at a pattern. i don't want to spend time getting the chronological order right, but kansas, texas tech, missouri, oklahoma state. notice anything there? sequential years, different programs from the big 12 that have not been traditionally high profile getting mega hoopla (sorry for the latin) treatment. raised to nose-bleed status before falling to the earth, their wings melted. what the heck is going on here? does the national football press have a need to promote a second tier big 12 team?

this season started with okla state getting the treatment, but early on they exposed themselves. i look around and don't see their replacement. at least not in the big 12. maybe it's just a need for someone in a big 12 state. look around and see if you can spot a traditional also-ran getting ink by the barrel and super high expectations after pummeling a questionable schedule. if there is anybody like that it might be where the news guys went. maybe an a.p. national championship for them? that would be nice.

i digress. what about kansas? certainly kansas is the real deal in basketball and their academic reputation is pretty ok, but i think there are reason$ why you don't see much mention of them in this thread. this thread is about the future in a very different monetary landscape than we've ever seen before.

 

[Muck]

That isn't BIG, that is ginormous. We would have to pray for a playoff lest we want Big Ten teams to be knocked out of championship contention annually.

You need two more teams so we can be back to the Big Ten - two 10-team divisions. :) Nebraska and Pitt would do the trick.

In that scenario I say we send both of our division champions to BCS bowls regardless of who wins the conference championship--reserve the Rose Bowl for the champion though.

Damn it looks like an entire paragraph got chopped from my original post during an edit...

The point that got lost is that with this conference you don't really NEED a conference championship game. As is it should have enough influence to push for two automatic BCS qualifiers ...the two conference champs. Any potential CCG would be just to determine which is the overall Big Ten champ.

Pitt and Nebraska have been covered multiple times in the thread. Neither program offers anything to the Big Ten and are out of contention.

The Biggest Ten listed above would be able to work with either two more or two fewer teams. ND determined to go it alone & Toronto is completely unrealistic. Fine. Do it with the other 16 schools mentioned.

Want to add two more for 20? Rutgers & Maryland bring more to the table than Pitt or Nebraska. DaveyBoy's Kansas suggestion is worthwhile (since the Big12 is going to implode anywas) and the Jayhawks could be brought in either with or instead of Missouri.

One of the advantages of going super big is that not every team added needs to have the ultimate head turner football program AS LONG AS they bring all the other criteria to the table...those being academic compatability & putting butts into seats in a major TV market. Rutgers (and even DB's Kansas suggestion) fits the latter far better than Pitt & Nebraska.

The main goal of the mega concept is to make it easier for teams like Texas & ND to jump onboard. That would mean expanding both West AND East to bring other partners to dance with the Longhorns and Irish.

Think a Big Ten with Penn State, Syracuse, Rutgers & Notre Dame might be able to squeeze into that all important New York market?

 

[jwinslow]

The point that got lost is that with this conference you don't really NEED a conference championship game. As is it should have enough influence to push for two automatic BCS qualifiers ...the two conference champs. Any potential CCG would be just to determine which is the overall Big Ten champ.

My preference:

1) No CCG - hold a 1 game tiebreaker between the top 2 ranked tied squads if a champion is not already declared.

2) CCG featuring the top 2 teams.

Scrap the division thing. It has proven to be a failure too many times.

 

[glenn]

sorry, davey, i've been throwing myself at your second paragraph, trying to get my assumed definitions for some of those words to connect with what i am reading. i think i have a headache. if something clicks i'll get back with you.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Well, glenn, I have to tell you.... I now hate you...

You've gone and made me get my hopes up about Texas joining the Big Ten, you've shown why it's sensible, etc...

and if it doesn't happen, now... I'm gonna be pissed...

:p

Keep up the good work!

 

[Muck]

Scrap the division thing. It has proven to be a failure too many times.

In a conference that large it's pretty much a necessity for non revenue scheduling.

There really isn't enough of a sample size out there to buy into the "too often a failure" argument

 

[kn1f3party]

Texas knows they are on the list.

I hate to say it, but I have genuinely fallen in love with the idea of them being invited to the Big Ten.

Big Ten Statement on Expansion - BIG TEN OFFICIAL ATHLETIC SITE

It isn't a matter of if anymore as we all know, it is a matter of who and when. It is up to Delany at this point to identify candidates. Time to start writing letters...