Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[mross34]

One thing to consider is the way the Big 10 has said they will go about the process: contacting any conference involved before contacting a team. I can see the Big 12 being ticked off that the Big 10 is coming after Missouri. But if we come calling for the crown jewel in Austin, the Big 12 will go ripshit.

 

[Oh8ch]

Hit and miss reading on this thread so sorry if this has been covered, but here are my opinions.

1. Expansion is being driven by the scheduling problems of an 11 team league, the desire for a playoff with two divisions and the revenue it might generate. While it may be fun to talk about kicking PSU out or expanding to more than 12 teams there is no reason to believe anything like that is going to happen.

2. Academic concerns are not driving expansion. There is no need for a 12th school to do research. I would categorize academic credentials of a school as "necessary, but not sufficient". That is, you have to be a decent school - at or near where the rest of the Big Ten is - but within that range how high you are probably wont carry as much weight as what you can do athletically.

3. What you can do athletically is all about football. Football drives revenue. It has been mentioned that research budgets dwarf athletic budgets. While this is certainly true, research budgets are not susceptible to where you rank in the BCS. OSU doesn't get more research money because we bring in a University that has a strong medical school and associated research. Successful athletics generate shared marginal income.

4. The Big Ten has a perception problem relative to football. When it comes to negotiating TV contracts and selling the BTN perception is reality. We need to bring in a school that helps address this perception. Rutgers or Syracuse don't help. Nobody in the Big East helps. We don't need to help another program grow - we need a program that can help us.

5. Travel costs have to be considered. Texas means you have to fly all those Title IX programs to Austin. That is travel costs for 11 schools times all those sports once every one or two years. And Texas has to travel over 800 miles for every event. Geography is important.

6. Once we go to two divisions OSU and Michigan MUST be in the same division. This is a no brainer.

Imagine if you will a season like 2006. Eastern Division OSU and Western Division Michigan are about to meet in their annual regular season rivalry game. Could be one of the all time classics. Except that Troy Smith is a bit dinged up. He could certainly play, but if he takes the week off he will be 100% in two weeks. JT decides to let him sit this one out. After all, OSU plays Michigan again the next week for the Big Ten title. (Not that playoffs do anything to diminish the importance of the regular season.) We need to play each other once, and only once, every year. What do we prove if we decide who is best "on the field" - but do it twice and get a different outcome each time?

7. The 12th team has to be one that balances out the other division so that the OSU-Michigan division is not too unbalanced.

8. Notre Dame.

 

[scooter1369]

Hit and miss reading on this thread so sorry if this has been covered, but here are my opinions.

1. Expansion is being driven by the scheduling problems of an 11 team league, the desire for a playoff with two divisions and the revenue it might generate. While it may be fun to talk about kicking PSU out or expanding to more than 12 teams there is no reason to believe anything like that is going to happen.

2. Academic concerns are not driving expansion. There is no need for a 12th school to do research. I would categorize academic credentials of a school as "necessary, but not sufficient". That is, you have to be a decent school - at or near where the rest of the Big Ten is - but within that range how high you are probably wont carry as much weight as what you can do athletically.

3. What you can do athletically is all about football. Football drives revenue. It has been mentioned that research budgets dwarf athletic budgets. While this is certainly true, research budgets are not susceptible to where you rank in the BCS. OSU doesn't get more research money because we bring in a University that has a strong medical school and associated research. Successful athletics generate shared marginal income.

4. The Big Ten has a perception problem relative to football. When it comes to negotiating TV contracts and selling the BTN perception is reality. We need to bring in a school that helps address this perception. Rutgers or Syracuse don't help. Nobody in the Big East helps. We don't need to help another program grow - we need a program that can help us.

5. Travel costs have to be considered. Texas means you have to fly all those Title IX programs to Austin. That is travel costs for 11 schools times all those sports once every one or two years. And Texas has to travel over 800 miles for every event. Geography is important.

6. Once we go to two divisions OSU and Michigan MUST be in the same division. This is a no brainer.

Imagine if you will a season like 2006. Eastern Division OSU and Western Division Michigan are about to meet in their annual regular season rivalry game. Could be one of the all time classics. Except that Troy Smith is a bit dinged up. He could certainly play, but if he takes the week off he will be 100% in two weeks. JT decides to let him sit this one out. After all, OSU plays Michigan again the next week for the Big Ten title. (Not that playoffs do anything to diminish the importance of the regular season.) We need to play each other once, and only once, every year. What do we prove if we decide who is best "on the field" - but do it twice and get a different outcome each time?

7. The 12th team has to be one that balances out the other division so that the OSU-Michigan division is not too unbalanced.

8. Notre Dame.

The only way I see ND saying "ok, we're in" is if the Big Ten decides another school is worth asking and tell them its time to put up or shut up. Make it a one time offer.

I would love to see Texas make the jump.

Missouri seems like a good choice to me, but would have been a better choice three years ago.

Syracuse, Iowa State and Rutgers do nothing for us. Nothing.

West Virginia may be a good option geographically, but tv markets drive many decisions and they simply don't have one worth getting into. Besides, half of West Virginia are Ohio State and Pitt fans anyway. They even follow Ohio High School football closely. I found out Davidson beat Elder because it was on the front page of a West Virginia newspaper's sports section. They just don't care much about their own teams.

 

[c-rowbuckeye]

I see two viable options that fit in with the Big Ten's mold in three categories: Academic Excellence, Athletic Tradition, and Geographical location. With these in mind, I think Pitt and Notre Dame. Both also play the rest of their sports (save hockey) in the Big East, but think there are enough non-BCS schools in the Big East to to make up for the loss in competition, besides, I haven't really seen the Irish put up a fight against the UConns and Syracuses of the Big East in basketball much these days. Divisional breakdowns as follows:

Nortre Dame Joins the Big Ten:
We all know the one big obstacle to this happening, but I think this would work out the best for the Big Ten and the Irish. However, NBC is not likely to give up its only college football game that it broadcasts. I do think however, I have come up with an interesting solution to that problem. All Notre Dame home games continue to air on NBC (at least until the terms of the contract expire), and NBC is allowed to show up to 2 more Big Ten games each week. On weeks where Notre Dame is at home ABC/ESPN gets the first 2 picks of non-Notre Dame games, followed by NBC, then ABC/ESPN again then the Big Ten Network and so on and so forth until all Big Ten games are scheduled. On weeks when Notre Dame is away or on a by week, NBC still receives the first choice of game, followed by ABC/ESPN, then NBC, then ABC/ESPN then BTN and so on and so forth until all Big Ten games are scheduled. Finally, when it comes time for the Big Ten Championship Game, NBC gets dibs since ESPN/ABC already has the Big XII and ACC (and I think MAC, but who wants to watch that?) they will likely want to air it at night to combat Big XII championship game. Finally, the divisions are set up as follows:

Eastern Division:
Penn State
Ohio State
M*ch*g@n
Michigan State
Purdue
Indiana

Western Division:
Notre Dame
Illinois
Northwestern
Iowa
Minnesota
Wisconsin

This set up allows for there to be an even split in the traditional balance of power between the 2 divisions and every current member still gets to play their 'Rivalry Week" team in the final week of the regular season and while South Bend is more east than West Lafayette and Bloomington, it is relatively close to Chicago and would tip the balance of power in the East.

Pitt joins the Big Ten:
This is probably the far more likely of the two seeing as neither NBC or ABC/ESPN would want to give up that much money and air time. This would also allow the Pitt/Penn State rivalry to well...exist again, and I know Penn State fans have been dying to get back to their annual romp with the Panthers and Ohio professional sport fans just LOVE the city of Pittsburgh so we wouldn't have a problem hating them.

Eastern Division:
Penn State
Pitt
Ohio State
M*ch*g@n
Michigan State
Indiana

Western Division:
Purdue
Northwestern
Illinois
Iowa
Minnesota
Wisconsin

This plan would also allow teams to play their traditional "Rivalry Week" teams on the final week of the regular season, protecting the integrity of the season, with one additional exception to the other plan. The "Old Oaken Bucket" would be an inter-divisional rivalry and we would have to worry about seeing an Indiana-Purdue rematch in the Big Ten Championship game (ok, just kidding).

Possible Big Ten Championship Game location possibilities:
With a 12th team meaning a championship game between the winners of both divisions would be necessary, the Big Ten Championship Game would likely be at a neutral site domed stadium. The possibilities within Big Ten Country:

Lucas Oil Stadium-Indianapolis, Indiana
Ford Field, Detroit, M*ch*g@n
Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome-Minneapolis, Minnesota

Given the uncertain future of the Metrodome I think it can be ruled out as a possibility, and the crime rate and overall not-good-ness of Detroit coupled with the fact the the Big Ten Basketball Tournament is already held a stone's throw away from Lucas Oil Stadium and Indianapolis' relatively central location, I think it would be the only logical place to have a championship game. However, I would absolutely love to see the BTCG played on a rotational basis of neutral site locations within Big Ten country. Places like, Paul Brown, Cleveland, Soldier's Field, Lucas Oil, Ford, Heinz, Lincoln Financial, and Lambeau. Could you imagine, in true Big Ten fashion, a championship game being played at Lambeau or Soldier's Field in early December? It would be incredible!

 

[korchiki]

I saw someone mentioned Louisville. They are obviously there for basketball already. Their football program has potential to grow pretty substantially. I have heard that their facilities are the tops of the BE (which isn't saying a lot). How does their academics look?

 

[LordJeffBuck]

1. Expansion is being driven by the scheduling problems of an 11 team league, the desire for a playoff with two divisions and the revenue it might generate. While it may be fun to talk about kicking PSU out or expanding to more than 12 teams there is no reason to believe anything like that is going to happen.

You are probably right, but let's just say that the Big Ten is able to convince Texas to join the conference. At that point, the Big 12 is already in a state of flux, so some other teams might start looking to bolt as well. What do you do if Missouri and Nebraska decide that they want out, too? Do you turn them away?

The Big East is barely a viable BCS conference. The Big East eventually needs to expand with 2-4 quality teams ... and what teams are available? C-USA schools like Marshall and East Carolina will only weaken the conference further. Is some school going to drop down from the Big Ten or ACC to join the Big East? Highly unlikely. More likely, the Big East will lose one or more members, and the conference will implode. When that happens, some decent schools will be on the market and looking to join other conferences. My guess is that the ACC and/or SEC, and perhaps the Big Ten, would pick up some of the cast-offs. The result: some conferences will have more than 12 teams. If mega-super-conferences are inevitable (and I think that they are), why not get ahead of the curve and get the Big Ten up to 14 teams by cherry picking the three that we really want, and not waiting for some other conferences' rejects?

Unless the school is Notre Dame, Big Ten expansion is going to upset apple cart of college football. If some more nice, shiny apples are sitting there waiting to be picked up, why not do so?

8. Notre Dame.

In so many ways, this makes such good sense. Somehow, I still can't see it happening ... and if it does happen, how soon before we get buyer's remorse?

 

[Buckeye86]

I have said this before, but if the Big Ten is serious about picking up Notre Dame, they should cancel all of the football games that Notre Dame has scheduled against the Big Ten (1/4th of their schedule or more every year) and let them squirm.

 

[Colvinnl]

Not an unequivocal statement from Notre Dame, but not exactly positive:

Notre Dame isn't interested in joining Big Ten -- chicagotribune.com

 

[CHU]

Regardless if the school is currently in the Big East, I would like to know how Rutgers is doing in their television market right now. It's not really a guaranteed, slam dunk that there would be huge ratings in that market (if no one cares about Rutgers football/basketball/athletics).

 

[bucknut502]

I saw someone mentioned Louisville. They are obviously there for basketball already. Their football program has potential to grow pretty substantially. I have heard that their facilities are the tops of the BE (which isn't saying a lot). How does their academics look?

Yeah if Louisville's facilities are tops in the Big East then that's not saying much for the BE. I live in Louisville and it is not a Big Ten type school. Their Football fans are very much "fair-weather." Papa Johns stadium seats like 42,000 and they are expanding but there was a game this past season where they only had 21,000 show up. Now on the other hand, Charlie Strong has not even started recruiting and already landed 5 pretty good players. One of those being Demarcus Smith in the 2011 class which Ohio State was very high on. Corvin Lamb from Miami Northwester commited last night too. So there is the potential to get there but Louisville football will always be a stepping-stone job for coaches. As far as basketball goes, the new arena they are building downtown is top of the line. But like I said they are not Big Ten caliber in my opinion

 

[jlb1705]

I saw someone mentioned Louisville. They are obviously there for basketball already. Their football program has potential to grow pretty substantially. I have heard that their facilities are the tops of the BE (which isn't saying a lot). How does their academics look?

Louisville is what UC sees when they take an honest look three years into the future. No thanks.

 

[MaxBuck]

Syracuse ... and Rutgers do nothing for us. Nothing.

Man, is this wrong, wrong, wrong. Rutgers, especially, would bring us the NYC media market, which is huge.

For those who claim that NYC is a "pro town," let me ask you this: what alternative do they have? Would you be a big college grid fan if the biggest play were Big Least football? If suddenly Rutgers is playing Big Boy football against Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State, the interest level will rise exponentially. Syracuse would have a similar, if somewhat less significant, effect.

One other thing: from a consensus standpoint, I don't think the Big Ten particularly wants Notre Dame.

 

[Piney]

There are only two perfect fits, Notre Dame & Texas. The problem is the chance of either of those two happening are so remote they shouldn't be talked about as they are pipe dreams.

Then the best other choices are Pitt, Missouri and maybe Nebraska? Color me unimpressed and would rather keep 11 than to expand just to expand. If Syracuse or Rutgers are brought in, then I am just going to superglue earplugs in my ears for the next 10 years as that will be such a running joke.

We need to go big or not do it at all.

 

[BUCKYLE]

Man, is this wrong, wrong, wrong. Rutgers, especially, would bring us the NYC media market, which is huge.

For those who claim that NYC is a "pro town," let me ask you this: what alternative do they have? Would you be a big college grid fan if the biggest play were Big Least football? If suddenly Rutgers is playing Big Boy football against Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State, the interest level will rise exponentially. Syracuse would have a similar, if somewhat less significant, effect.

One other thing: from a consensus standpoint, I don't think the Big Ten particularly wants Notre Dame.

It doesn't bring us the NY market if no one in NY gives a shit about Rutgers. They could play Fla, LSU, UGA, tOSU, Texas, USC and UM every year, and still, no one would give a shit. ND would pull far higher ratings in NY than Rutgers.

 

[Jaxbuck]

There are only two perfect fits, Notre Dame & Texas. The problem is the chance of either of those two happening are so remote they shouldn't be talked about as they are pipe dreams.

Then the best other choices are Pitt, Missouri and maybe Nebraska? Color me unimpressed and would rather keep 11 than to expand just to expand. If Syracuse or Rutgers are brought in, then I am just going to superglue earplugs in my ears for the next 10 years as that will be such a running joke.

We need to go big or not do it at all.

Not to get off topic but if OSU starts winning Bowl games and big OOC matchups the national thrashing of the B10's weakness will die down considerably.

I hope they tell ND to get fucked and go the mega conference route if they are going to do it at all.