Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[Dryden]

Why don't we jetsam Penn State real quick, just for fun.

 

[Saw31]

Oklahoma/Nebraska was a must see game my entire life, until it disappeared.

Oklahoma/Kansas seems like the best idea I've heard if we have to get 2 more. Nuke the Big XII.

Texas can add Rice, Houston, SMU, etc., run their conference however they like, play in the Cotton or at Jerry World, and never have to leave their state ever again...

 

[RugbyBuck]

Funny, I've always thought the line was: "...nuke the site for morbid". It sort of made sense, so while it only sort of made sense, I didn't question it.

 

[MaxBuck]

Best addition at this point would be UGA. Don't bet it can't happen.

Tech would be silly, as would Vanderbilt. Neither one has a fan base.

 

[Muck]

That makes four 18-team conferences, each with two 9-team divisions.

Each 9-team division would be divided into three 3-team "pods". Each team would play each of its pod-members every year, plus 2 teams from each of the other pods in their division, plus one team from each of the pods in the other division, for a total of nine conference games.

For example, an expanded B1G might look something like this (I'm not making any comment on whether the my additions are reasonable or desirable, they are strictly for purposes of illustration):

EASTERN DIVISION..............WESTERN DIVISION
Pod 1.........................Pod 1
Ohio State....................Illinois
Michigan......................Northwestern
Michigan State................Wisconsin

Pod 2.........................Pod 2
Penn State....................Minnesota
Maryland......................Iowa
Rutgers.......................Iowa State

Pod 3.........................Pod 3
Notre Dame....................Nebraska
Indiana.......................Oklahoma (or Missouri)
Purdue........................Kansas

So every year, Ohio State would play:
Michigan
Michigan State
2 from the Penn State-Maryland-Rutgers pod
2 from the Notre Dame-Indiana-Purdue pod
1 from the Illinois-Northwestern-Wisconsin pod
1 from the Minnesota-Iowa-Iowa State pod
1 from the Nebraska-Oklahoma-Kansas pod
3 non-conference games (preferably one from each of the other Power4 conferences)

That's an interesting way of handling the issue of not playing teams from the opposite division regularly...but what happens when Ohio State & Notre Dame are both undefeated in the East while Nebraska & Wisconsin are both undefeated in the West? Who goes to the CCG?

 

[Jaxbuck]

That's an interesting way of handling the issue of not playing teams from the opposite division regularly...but what happens when Ohio State & Notre Dame are both undefeated in the East while Nebraska & Wisconsin are both undefeated in the West? Who goes to the CCG?

Ohio State


duhhh

 

[LordJeffBuck]

That's an interesting way of handling the issue of not playing teams from the opposite division regularly...but what happens when Ohio State & Notre Dame are both undefeated in the East while Nebraska & Wisconsin are both undefeated in the West? Who goes to the CCG?

There would have to be some kind of tiebreaker, just like the NFL.

The only way around it would be to play each team in your own division every year, which leaves only one game per year versus the other division (assuming 9-team divisions and 9 total conference games). There's nothing wrong with that approach, but Ohio State's going to play Rutgers and Indiana every year, and Wisconsin and Nebraska once a decade.

 

[Bucky32]

There's nothing wrong with that approach, but Ohio State's going to play Rutgers and Indiana every year, and Wisconsin and Nebraska once a decade.

After Saturday night, I don't see anything wrong with this proposition.

 

[zincfinger]

The six 'power five New Years bowls' are perfect for an eight team playoff.

There are currently 62 P5 schools.

The Bigxii is going the way of the big east.

Absorb the bigxii. That leaves two. NoD, join up or get out. That leaves one. Add whoever. I'm in favor of whomever wins the Commander's Cup.
That's up for debate. Add Cincinnati or Boise, doesn't matter. Just get to 64.

Of course, this means that there needs to be another split in the NCAA divisions. This makes sense, since the vast majority of the non-P5 schools don't have a chance anyway. Make it 5 divisions: D1; the 64 FBS schools, D2; former FBS schools, D3; former FCS schools, D4; former D2 schools, D5; former D3 schools. FCS and FBS are already two different divisions. Make it official.

That makes four 16 team D1 conferences.

I think everyone can see where it's going from here: eight divisions of eight teams. division winners get in. NO ONE ELSE. CCGs can determine the ones and twos.

There's your eight team bracket.

In that scenario, why not just make the CCG's elimination games so they are effectively round 1 of the playoff? Why give the CCG losers another bite at the apple?

 

[Buckeye Maniac]

There would have to be some kind of tiebreaker, just like the NFL.

The only way around it would be to play each team in your own division every year, which leaves only one game per year versus the other division (assuming 9-team divisions and 9 total conference games). There's nothing wrong with that approach, but Ohio State's going to play Rutgers and Indiana every year, and Wisconsin and Nebraska once a decade.

This is why 16 teams with 4 pods that switch every other year is best. Every team would play every other team at least twice in a four year period and there's no issue of not playing other teams in the division.

 

[BuckeyeSoldier]

There would have to be some kind of tiebreaker, just like the NFL.

The only way around it would be to play each team in your own division every year, which leaves only one game per year versus the other division (assuming 9-team divisions and 9 total conference games). There's nothing wrong with that approach, but Ohio State's going to play Rutgers and Indiana every year, and Wisconsin and Nebraska once a decade.

Thats the main reason i thought sticking at 16 seemed optimal. any larger and it seems almost silly to even consider opposite divisions to be in the same conference.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

This is why 16 teams with 4 pods that switch every other year is best. Every team would play every other team at least twice in a four year period and there's no issue of not playing other teams in the division.

Thats the main reason i thought sticking at 16 seemed optimal. any larger and it seems almost silly to even consider opposite divisions to be in the same conference.

Four 16-team conferences.

Two 8-team divisions.

Two 4-team pods in each division.

Each team plays the other three in pod every year, plus two teams from each other pod, for a total of nine conference games.

That works for me.

Theoretical 16-team B1G:

EASTERN DIVISION..............WESTERN DIVISION
Pod 1.........................Pod 1
Ohio State....................Illinois
Michigan......................Northwestern
Indiana.......................Wisconsin
Purdue........................Notre Dame (or Missouri)

Pod 2.........................Pod 2
Penn State....................Minnesota
Michigan State................Iowa
Maryland......................Nebraska
Rutgers.......................Kansas (or Missouri or Oklahoma)

The pods aren't ideal, but it's not too bad. The Little Brother rivalry is split, but most of the other ones remain. Division/pod is balance is pretty good.

 

[Muck]

There would have to be some kind of tiebreaker, just like the NFL.

...and bylaw 17.9.5.2 (c)?

Twelve-Member Conference Championship Game. [FBS/FCS]

A conference championship game between division champions of a member conference of 12 or more institutions that is divided into two divisions (of six or more institutions each), each of which conducts round-robin, regular-season competition among the members of that division'​

​

The only way around it would be to play each team in your own division every year, which leaves only one game per year versus the other division (assuming 9-team divisions and 9 total conference games). There's nothing wrong with that approach, but Ohio State's going to play Rutgers and Indiana every year, and Wisconsin and Nebraska once a decade.

Well that's not the only way around it. As mentioned there are various 'pod' concepts which would help ameliorate the issue (while creating others).

BTW looking at the pods in your follow-up post...Wisconsin, Iowa & Minnesota would fight to stay together. I also doubt Notre Dame would go for that division.

There's no reason that all four pods have to rotate. You could just have two of them swap sides annually (or bi-annually). This would allow you to put the teams with the least shared history on opposite sides while increasing the number of times the teams that do have history face one another. There is also no reason all four pods have to be the same size. Two pods of 5 and two of 3 would work just as well (and would make it easier to tailor the matchups).

 

[cincibuck]

If Kentucky fades any more they'll disappear.

My point exactly. Thinking that Minnesota, or Wisconsin, or even Michigan State is going to rise to a first tier level and stay there over the span of the next thirty years, or that Kentucky, Indiana, or Vandy aren't going to continue to scrape bottom flies in the face of an overwhelming body of statistical evidence.

 

[kujirakira]

IF the SWC was the ship, wouldn't that make the schools the jetsam?

Meh, I never can get my maritime terminology right... I mean starboard.

To your point though TTech, Baylor, TCU, Houston, Rice, SMU? Yeah, not really B1G material. And to Dryen's point, who really cares... I mean, the Big XII north was most years more resembled a dog pound than a footbal division, you're almost better off having the good teams together to ensure they play each other every year.

Rice has a few check marks, the others none at all. Rice would fit right into CIC but it ends there.
Texas is the only one that fits the profile as a large flagship with research and athletics.

In the meantime Nebraska isn't getting any better, while recruiting, tv rights, etc. on that end are practically non-existent.
We've basically entered a situation where the small part of the old conference that is still flourishing has broken off as the East Division and added a few new suitors.... while the West is largely left to languish. Adding 2 more schools from the Coastline would solidify that trend moving Indiana over to the West. I don't see a problem for Ohio State there... we're flourishing, and we're in the flourishing half with the rich recruiting and tv rights. The future is bright for Ohio State regardless whose added.
But it's not good for the overall conference, which will try to adapt and balance with its last 2 additions. And that does lead straight to a footprint in Texas, and all indications from conference confirm that's indeed how they see it as well.

As for cultural conflicts - that's already over. The Midwest has already been split down the middle and realigned with the likes of PSU, Maryland, New Jersey.