Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[dragurd]

Based on recent rumblings on the interwebs that Texas is a serious expansion option and they'd like to bring Oklahoma on board as well, I decided to put together a 5 team pod system for the Big Ten based entirely on geography with the hypothetical additions of: Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, Virginia and North Carolina to bring the conference to 20 teams.

East:
Penn State
North Carolina
Maryland
Virginia
Rutgers

Mid East:
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Purdue
Indiana

Mid West:
Wisconsin
Iowa
Illinois
Northwestern
Minnesota

West:
Texas
Oklahoma
Nebraska
Missouri
Kansas

Then I ran a schedule for Ohio State using a 9 game conference schedule, playing every team in their pod every year, and with the East and West pods most loosely associated (meaning the teams from the East and Mid East pods only play one team from the West pod each season and vice versa).

Using that formula it would take 5 years for every team in the conference to play every other team in the conference.For example-

Year 1
Ohio State: Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana, Minnesota, Northwestern, North Carolina, Missouri

Year 2
Ohio State: Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Maryland, Rutgers, Kansas

Year 3
Ohio State: Michigan, Penn State, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana, Minnesota, Virginia

Year 4
Ohio State: Michigan, Oklahoma, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana, Northwestern, Illinois, North Carolina, Maryland

Year 5
Ohio State: Michigan, Texas, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana, Iowa, Rutgers, Virginia

Or something like that, it gets a lot more complicated when you run multiple teams, obviously.

However, I think overall this would be a very workable system that sets up competitive balance relatively nicely.

It also protects historical and regional rivalries and affiliations (West is Big 12 lite and East is ACC lite while the Mids are classic Big Ten) as well as spacing out the times the geographically separated teams would play one another.

My biggest problem is that Penn State is gift wrapped their pod (the mid-west is relatively weak as well and the West and Mid East are stacked) and I'm sure they would love this set up, but trying to balance the divisions any other way gets impossible extremely quickly without completely blowing up the historic and regional affiliations.

If mega conferences are in the future, I'd be extremely happy if the Big Ten ended up with this arrangement.

Also, if you had four mega conferences with 4 5-team pods, you could have the pod winners play, have the winners of those games play in a conference championship game, then have the conference champions in a four team playoff.

It would effectively be a 16 team tournament.

One can dream.

I'd prefer GT or ND to Kansas but otherwise looks good.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Except the decision isn't going to be made based on who Ohio State has a longer standing rivalry with.

OK, so upon just what would the decision between Illinois and Northwestern be made?

 

[GoBucks1014]

OK, so upon just what would the decision between Illinois and Northwestern be made?

Weekend in Chicago or Champaign every other year watching the Bucks...decision made. :cheers:

 

[Muck]

I'd prefer GT or ND to Kansas but otherwise looks good.

Texas
Oklahoma
Nebraska
Missouri
Georgia Tech/Notre Dame

That's a weird pod.

OK, so upon just what would the decision between Illinois and Northwestern be made?

Just like every other decision that is voted on by 12, 14, 16, 18 (or however many members the B1G ends up) members with interests that sometimes are at odds and others coincide....by politicking.

There will be wheeling & dealing and eventually something will get worked out. Whoever gets 'screwed' will probably get some sort of concessions to take away the sting, and life will go on.

Look at the last two rounds. The first time around Wisconsin agreed to go east when Northwestern didn't want to and the second Purdue went west (whether by choice or because they got handed the short of the stick we don't know) when Sparty fought against being split off from TSUN.

 

[Buckeye86]

Then why did you even post our record against Illinois in the first place, and not our record against Northwestern?

I directly addressed this in my post.

The head-to-head record was merely to demonstrate that the rivalry isn't compelling. A bad stretch by some of the worst teams in Ohio State history isn't going to change that.

I personally don't care all that much about the Illibuck trophy either, but the point is that it's a factor to be considered when choosing between which of two shitty football schools to move in to our division (it's the second longest rivalry trophy in the conference, second only to the Little Brown Jug).

What factor would you use to choosing which of the two schools to move in to our division? Geography is a virtual wash. To me, the obvious choice is the team with whom you've had a longer standing rivalry. We've played Illinois 20 more times, Illinois plays us tougher, and there is a long-standing rivalry trophy involved with Illinois. Again, no-brainer...

I was looking at it from a competitive balance standpoint. If you put Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan State in the same pod, you need to put as much weight as possible in the other.

I think Illinois adds more competitive "weight" than Purdue or Indiana- or at least has the potential to.

I agree that all things being equal it's a no brainer to go with the Illibuck if possible, but I would put quite a few considerations above it in the likely scenario that things aren't equal.

The Illibuck is the second oldest trophy game in the conference. Yes it's a big deal to long time fans. Don't confuse the <30 crowd who thinks Oregon's uniforms look cool with the majority of Ohio State fans.

The game was equally as boring and irrelevant throughout its history (outside of pre-1930 and a seven year stretch in the late 80s early 90s) as it is now.

If old people care about boring irrelevant things just because they are old too than more power to them I suppose.

This is based on wikipedia, so it might not be true at all, but...

The Illibuck became less important when

From 1919 to 1933, the Illinois?Ohio State game was the regular-season finale for both teams.

this ended.

And again became less important when it stopped being an annual game in 2003.

So, I mean, it's not like this is a recent thing. It seems to me like the trophy's spiral into irrelevance was sealed in 1933.

Not coincidentally, Michigan became the finale in 1935 and the rest is history, as they say.

 

[Muck]

The game was equally as boring and irrelevant throughout its history (outside of pre-1930 and a seven year stretch in the late 80s early 90s) as it is now.

How many of those games did you witness first hand?

Regale us on how irrelevant the 1968 shootout victory was after two straight losses. Detail how boring it was when the Illini were while putting up big offensive numbers behind guys like Tony Eason & Jack Trudeau during the Earle years. Explain the irrelevance of Ray Elliot's teams of the 40s & 50s.

Heck let's narrow it down into a block of time that's easier to process...which of those games during the early double oughts was boring (well besides '05)?

If old people care about boring irrelevant things just because they are old too than more power to them I suppose.

If 'young' people think the the 15 minutes they've been on this earth is relevant, well more power to them. I suppose.

5 second attention spans are not a strong argument for having a worthwhile opinion on long term value.

This is based on wikipedia, so it might not be true at all, but...

Well it certainly doesn't get any more definitive than that.

 

[BUCKYLE]

I don't give a rats ass about the illibuck. I remember Jeff George. I like the bball matchup, but they don't matter much to me in football. Just my .02.

 

[Buckeye86]

Well it certainly doesn't get any more definitive than that.

Well, it's easy enough to look up in the official record book to verify that it's true- which it is.

So are you disputing that the trophy game originated because it was the season finale and lost some of its luster when it stopped being the finale in 1933?

Regale us on how irrelevant the 1968 shootout victory was after two straight losses. Detail how boring it was when the Illini were while putting up big offensive numbers behind guys like Tony Eason & Jack Trudeau during the Earle years. Explain the irrelevance of Ray Elliot's teams of the 40s & 50s.

Illinois went 91-90-11 from 1940 to 1960. It must have been riveting watching them lose half their games.

Heck let's narrow it down into a block of time that's easier to process...which of those games during the early double oughts was boring (well besides '05)?

Without looking up scores, I don't find a single one memorable outside of '07.

Edit: I guess I should add '02 as the first overtime game, right? However, in a sea of exciting games that season it still gets overshadowed.

I do remember quite a few exciting Purdue games in the last decade. Are they our rival?

If 'young' people think the the 15 minutes they've been on this earth is relevant, well more power to them. I suppose.

5 second attention spans are not a strong argument for having a worthwhile opinion on long term value.

Once again, you rattled off, what? a dozen years worth of games in 8 decades that are supposed to be memorable, a big chunk of which were before 1960?

Yeah, amazing rivalry that the damn kids these days just don't appreciate because they're so stupid.

Once again, I go back to the game being the finale when the trophy was created. That made sense.

80 years full of Buckeye domination after the game stopped being the finale? not so much.

Anyways, this is a pretty tangential and unimportant argument. I think we're all a little extra on edge as the season gets closer.

 

[buchtelgrad04]

Deja Vu

 

[IronBuckI]

Deja Vu

 

[cincibuck]

What factor would you use to choosing which of the two schools to move in to our division? Geography is a virtual wash. To me, the obvious choice is the team with whom you've had a longer standing rivalry. We've played Illinois 20 more times, Illinois plays us tougher, and there is a long-standing rivalry trophy involved with Illinois. Again, no-brainer...

I-spent-a-year-in-Champagne - Urbana-last-night vs "that toddlin' town"

A chance to meet ORD vs having your pic taken in front of the Red Grange statue.

Freezing your ass off in a wind tunnel vs huddled in another stadium where the folks in scarlet outnumber the folks in hometown colors.

 

[Bleed S & G]

thedudeofWV tweeting a new school is set to join the B1G, not an AAU member and not a football school.. just some buzz going around on the intrawebz, likely wrong if his past is any indicator.

 

[Muck]

I'm guessing that Chris read the news about Canadian schools petitioning for NCAA membership and is trying to generate some hits with a possible "St. Clair College associate member in hockey" angle.

 

[Piney]

thedudeofWV tweeting a new school is set to join the B1G, not an AAU member and not a football school.. just some buzz going around on the intrawebz, likely wrong if his past is any indicator.

Could it be ORD's wet dream of Toronto?

 

[Dee-Liem]

I'm guessing that Chris read the news about Canadian schools petitioning for NCAA membership and is trying to generate some hits with a possible "St. Clair College associate member in hockey" angle.

It's just idiotic at this point, isn't it? (i.e. people trying to throw stuff against the wall on expansion and trying to be an expert)

They have no sources, they have no credible information and they are not experts. It's actually rather hilarious the people who actually follow that idiot.