Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[Ryan36_1]

Uh, what's wrong with two 8-team divisions if we expand to 16 teams? Up until this past eason we've been playing in one big 11-team division, aka the Big Ten Conference. 4-team pods would be stupid.

Even with 9 conference games, if you protect one cross division team, then you'd play the other division teams once every 7 years and they'd come to your place once every 14 years.

 

[rampageripster]

He's a beta tester. Good thing Apple & Motorola killed the slider phone.

Precisely. My phone seems to change words and punctuation on a whim... oh well, doesn't make my points less valid

 

[rampageripster]

Pods would blow. Why the [censored] would you want to be in a 16-team conference yet play Indiana or Northwestern every [censored]ing year? In a four year span, players should get the opportunity to visit as many opponent stadiums as possible.

Not seeing how two 8-team divisions accomplishes this any better... using that model you would only one game a season against the other 8. Talk about dumb. Pods are really the only logical way to make a 16 team conference in a way that promotes conference unity and guarantees that it won't be forever between matchups.

 

[UpNorth_Buckeye]

How would you decide the conference champion in a 4 pod system? Would the same set of 2 pods be paired up together every year (like NE with SE and NW with SW)? And the best sub-champion of both sides face each other in the championship game? I could see that getting messy. I suppose you could do the 2 best, but that tiebreaker system would have to be INTENSE.

Edit: On a side note, would 10-game conference schedules be in the realm of possibilities for a 16-team conference?

 

[dav713]

How would you decide the conference champion in a 4 pod system? Would the same set of 2 pods be paired up together every year (like NE with SE and NW with SW)? And the best sub-champion of both sides face each other in the championship game? I could see that getting messy.

With pods, the "divisions" have to change every (other) year. If pod A plays C and B plays D, you have the A/D division and the B/C division. So, you play every team in your "division". A/C winner plays B/C winner for the conference championship. Division naming would be a little wonky, but fuck anything beats Leaders/Legends.

 

[buckiprof]

Well here is a crazy ass idea predicated on dropping the illusion that money isn't the driver.

Have a 15 team conference. Go with 3 pods of 5 teams. Could play 4 games in your pod, and 2 each from the other pods for 8 league games. Obviously, rotate the 2 games from the other pods...sometimes 2 years between games against a team from the other pods, a few times 3 years.

The 3 pod winners advance to semi-finals and there is one wild card from the 3 pods for the 4th team. The 4 teams are seeded and higher seed hosts semi-final game. Championship game follows a week after the semi-final game.

Due to the seeding aspect as well as the wild card, games could possibly take on more meaning than they do under the current format. This creates more interest and more interest usually means more money.

Again, crazy ass idea that asks too much of the student-athlete (obligatory go to for any university president who may read this), but the amount of money a semi-final followed by a championship game a week later would be significant, I believe, for the conference.

Have fun with that guys

 

[UpNorth_Buckeye]

Well here is a crazy ass idea predicated on dropping the illusion that money isn't the driver.

Have a 15 team conference. Go with 3 pods of 5 teams. Could play 4 games in your pod, and 2 each from the other pods for 8 league games. Obviously, rotate the 2 games from the other pods...sometimes 2 years between games against a team from the other pods, a few times 3 years.

The 3 pod winners advance to semi-finals and there is one wild card from the 3 pods for the 4th team. The 4 teams are seeded and higher seed hosts semi-final game. Championship game follows a week after the semi-final game.

Due to the seeding aspect as well as the wild card, games could possibly take on more meaning than they do under the current format. This creates more interest and more interest usually means more money.

Again, crazy ass idea that asks too much of the student-athlete (obligatory go to for any university president who may read this), but the amount of money a semi-final followed by a championship game a week later would be significant, I believe, for the conference.

Have fun with that guys

You're right, that is a crazy ass idea :tongue2:

But in all seriousness, I don't see conferences having a semi-final round. Just look at how long it took to get to a four team national playoff, let alone a four team conference playoff.

 

[HorseshoeFetish]

this system would work perfect here:
East: UNC, UVA, Duke, MD/GT
Mid-East: PSU, tOSU, IU, PU
Midwest: UM, MSU, UI, NW
West: UW, Minn, Iowa, Neb

These would work perfectly

That's a lot of perfect for something that sucks.

First: It's like "Hey welcome to the BIG..now go sit at the kiddies table".

Second: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ect-kgxBb4M"]Sesame Street - One Of These Things - Letters and numbers - YouTube[/ame]

I mean seriously the EAST doesn't have any kind of BIG feel to it at all.

Third: Much like you don't take away the possibility of a tOSU vs scUM Championship Game in ..well any sport....you don't take that away from Duke vs UNC in BB either.

Fourth and finally: You don't win the BIG without playing the BIG in any sport..Not one of those schools deserves a free run in football or any other sport in their own private lil ...ugh..pod.

 

[UpNorth_Buckeye]

That's a lot of perfect for something that sucks.

First: It's like "Hey welcome to the BIG..now go sit at the kiddies table".

Second: Sesame Street - One Of These Things - Letters and numbers - YouTube

I mean seriously the EAST doesn't have any kind of BIG feel to it at all.

Third: Much like you don't take away the possibility of a tOSU vs scUM Championship Game in ..well any sport....you don't take that away from Duke vs UNC in BB either.

Fourth and finally: You don't win the BIG without playing the BIG in any sport..Not one of those schools deserves a free run in football or any other sport in their own private lil ...ugh..pod.

Firstly, video=win. Secondly, agree with the East not being like that (you know, in our pretend scenario of getting 4 teams to make a 16 team super conference even know there is probably a much better chance that we don't even expand at all). We would probably have two teams per pod (if we did 4 pods based on geography, we probably couldn't do 1 per pod since they'd be in the "eastern" pods).

On a side note, when did we start calling them pods instead of divisions?

 

[armsbendback]

I'm not a fan of the pod system but you're way off with #4 below.

In the pod system, the (acc)teams in the east division would play 5 or 6 games against traditional Big10 teams every year, plus one more game against a traditional big ten power if one of the East teams reached the conference championship game.

If we HAD to go to pods, I see nothing wrong with that setup and you can't bring these new teams in and not give them the benefit of some of their traditional rivals on the scehdule

Fourth and finally: You don't win the BIG without playing the BIG in any sport..Not one of those schools deserves a free run in football or any other sport in their own private lil ...ugh..pod.

 

[rampageripster]

How would you decide the conference champion in a 4 pod system? Would the same set of 2 pods be paired up together every year (like NE with SE and NW with SW)? And the best sub-champion of both sides face each other in the championship game? I could see that getting messy. I suppose you could do the 2 best, but that tiebreaker system would have to be INTENSE.

Edit: On a side note, would 10-game conference schedules be in the realm of possibilities for a 16-team conference?

I don't see how a tie breaker for the pods would be any more intense than an 8-team division or even how it is currently... tie breakers are tie breakers and they usually suck, no two ways about it.

I actually really prefer a 9-game conference schedule. You get one OOC against the Pac12 (part of the agreement) and two to do with as you wish. Then you would play everyone in your division. Your special crossover, another from the same pod as the crossover, and then two more teams from each of the other two pods... 10 teams gets tricky because 2 OOC games is probably too few, though it would be doable on a conference level.

Here is an example of what the a few seasons could look like for tOSU:

Season 1
Game 1: Oregon
Game 2: Kent St
Game 3: Marshall
Game 4: @Wisconsin
Game 5: Indiana
Game 6: North Carolina
Game 7: @ Michigan St
Game 8: Iowa
Game 9: @Purdue
Game 10: @ Virginia
Game 11: Penn St
Game 12: @ Michigan

Season 2
Game 1: @ USC
Game 2: Toledo
Game 3: Ohio
Game 4: @ Duke
Game 5: Nebraska
Game 6: Illinois
Game 7: @ Penn St
Game 8: Maryland/Georgia Tech
Game 9: @ Indiana
Game 10: @ Minnesota
Game 11: Purdue
Game 12: Michigan

Season 3
Game 1: @ Washington
Game 2: Akron
Game 3: Cincy
Game 4: Indiana
Game 5: Wisconsin
Game 6: @ North Carolina
Game 7: @ Purdue
Game 8: Virginia
Game 9: @ Northwestern
Game 10: @ Iowa
Game 11: Penn St
Game 12: @ Michigan

As you can see, in 3 season the Buckeyes have played all the members of the new conference and still play UM every season. In 4 seasons they will have gone to every B1G stadium except for 1 (one of MSU/Ill/NW). The pods are the only way you can have a single recruiting class play everyone in the conference twice (except two teams) and play in every stadium (except one) by the time they graduate.

 

[HorseshoeFetish]

I'm not a fan of the pod system but you're way off with #4 below.


If we HAD to go to pods, I see nothing wrong with that setup and you can't bring these new teams in and not give them the benefit of some of their traditional rivals on the scehdule

Really? You don't see anything wrong with....in just Football alone.

Midwest: UM, MSU, UI, NW
West: UW, Minn, Iowa, Neb
Mid-East: PSU, tOSU, IU, PU
vs.

East:UNC, UVA, Duke, MD/GT

I'd say Duke has a better chance of winning the east in football, by far and away, compared to the hill Minnesota would have to climb...or say Purdue, Indiana, NW.

And with all due respect..it's not like we're joining the ACC here..they can have their rivalry games..someone get creative with scheduling, but I'll be damned if our traditional games like the Buckeye/ Wolverine or even the Illini/Wildcats get the axe so that we can watch Maryland play Virginia every year. They need to create some new rivalries too ya know and not live in a sheltered pod of their own.

And yes I get the whole geographical and logistic benefits of putting them together....but it doesn't make it right...and it's a damn far sight from being perfect.

 

[rampageripster]

How would you decide the conference champion in a 4 pod system? Would the same set of 2 pods be paired up together every year (like NE with SE and NW with SW)? And the best sub-champion of both sides face each other in the championship game? I could see that getting messy. I suppose you could do the 2 best, but that tiebreaker system would have to be INTENSE.

Edit: On a side note, would 10-game conference schedules be in the realm of possibilities for a 16-team conference?

That's a lot of perfect for something that sucks.

First: It's like "Hey welcome to the BIG..now go sit at the kiddies table".

Second:Sesame Street - One Of These Things - Letters and numbers - YouTube

I mean seriously the EAST doesn't have any kind of BIG feel to it at all.

Third: Much like you don't take away the possibility of a tOSU vs scUM Championship Game in ..well any sport....you don't take that away from Duke vs UNC in BB either.

Fourth and finally: You don't win the BIG without playing the BIG in any sport..Not one of those schools deserves a free run in football or any other sport in their own private lil ...ugh..pod.

1) It makes the most sense to stick those eastern teams together. They in fact would probably be happiest with that as they would get the most football games against opponents they know best and are most familiar with. Easy traveling for their fans and good regional rivalry for the division (I'll start using this term instead of pod).

2) video = well played. Of course they feel un-B1G now, they are ACC. They truly belong in the ACC. But this is operating under the idea that the ACC no longer exists. If that is the case, these are more B1G teams than they are SEC teams and would eventually meld into the B1G culture over the years of playing lots of B1G conference games against teams like Ohio St, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, ect.

3) This would be for football only, for olympic sports you throw out the divisions and go to some sort of unbalanced schedule ala the Big East. The SEC has shown time and time again that divisions in basketball are stupid.

4) See my above proposed schedule. UNC would have to play A LOT of current B1G teams to have a shot at a B1G title. Sure, they are competing directly against the members in their division, but if they can;t beat the rest of the conference on a consistent division they won't even sniff the conference championship

 

[UpNorth_Buckeye]

I don't see how a tie breaker for the pods would be any more intense than an 8-team division or even how it is currently... tie breakers are tie breakers and they usually suck, no two ways about it.

When I said the tiebreakers would be crazy, I was specifically referring to if there were 4 DIVISIONS (this is my attempt to buck the term "pods"), and the conference championship game pitted the two best teams from the 4 divisions (as opposed to having 2 "eastern" divisions having a representative and 2 "western" divisions having a representative).

Imagine if somehow each division had their division winner at 10-2 with 1 division loss (I know, I'm reaching here but crazier things have happened and just trying to illustrate a point). How do you choose the 2 best? The chances that they've all played each other are remote.

 

[rampageripster]

Really? You don't see anything wrong with....in just Football alone.

Midwest: UM, MSU, UI, NW
West: UW, Minn, Iowa, Neb
Mid-East: PSU, tOSU, IU, PU
vs.

East:UNC, UVA, Duke, MD/GT

I'd say Duke has a better chance of winning the east in football, by far and away, compared to the hill Minnesota would have to climb...or say Purdue, Indiana, NW.

And with all due respect..it's not like we're joining the ACC here..they can have their rivalry games..someone get creative with scheduling, but I'll be damned if our traditional games like the Buckeye/ Wolverine or even the Illini/Wildcats get the axe so that we can watch Maryland play Virginia every year. They need to create some new rivalries too ya know and not live in a sheltered pod of their own.

And yes I get the whole geographical and logistic benefits of putting them together....but it doesn't make it right...and it's a damn far sight from being perfect.

Where in the world do you see us losing rivalries???

Here is a list of the official rivalries as listed by the B1G:

Indiana v. MSU KEPT (crossover)
MSU v. PSU LOST (prob lost cause UMD would most likely be the permanent cross for UMD or UVA)
NW v. Ill KEPT (same division)
OSU v. Ill LOST (UM is the permanent crossover, would be sad, but this wasn't a permanent game on the schedule when we were at 11)
OSU v. PSU KEPT (same division)
PU v. IU KEPT (same division)
ILL v. PU KEPT (crossover)
Iowa v. Minn KEPT (same division)
Iowa v. Wisc KEPT (same division)
UM v. tOSU KEPT (crossover)
UM v. MSU KEPT (same division)
UM v. Minn LOST (see the IlliBuck)
Minn v. PSU LOST (see IlliBuck)
Minn v. Wisc KEPT (same division)

Os we lose 4/14 rivalries on a every season basis. Out of those, the Little Brown Jug and the IlliBuck are probably the only two that would cause any objection at all.

And the new East teams would most certainly make new rivalries. PSU v. MD would be a fantastic yearly rivalry. How about Duke v. Wisc, which could turn into a big time basketball rivalry too.

As I said before these teams would have to play 6 current B1G members EVERY SEASON. So Duke may be the best in the east division, but if they go 2-4 in those six games they certainly can't make the championship game. Plus you can't look at current success as a barometer to guarantee future success. At one point Minn would have been the hands down favorite to win that division