Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[BB73]

There's a new vBet on SEC expansion for those interested - it's only open until tomorrow morning.

SEC.vBet

 

[Nutriaitch]

Keep in mind that NC State is tied to UNC (the NCST board of trustees is appointed by the UNC board of governors) and the Tarheels aren't ever going to the SEC.

The Wolfpack certainly is a better 'growth' option for the SEC but there is definitely red tape that would have to be overcome.

this is actually why i think they would go for it.
they can still play each other OOC every year.

Currently they each get a BCS check for whoever represents the ACC (neither of these schools is going to do it).
Don't know how the ACC splits their BCS money.

If NCST were to go to the SEC, then the UNC system gets their check for the ACC rep, PLUS the check from the SEC which quite often gets TWO teams into the BCS bowls.

More money for the entire system.

The move also improves NCST chances in basketball by not being in conference with UNC and Duke.
Which could also mean more $ for the system.

Not saying they definitely would go for it.

Just saying that if I was Slive, that is where I would look.
If not them, someone really similar to them.

 

[jlb1705]

this is actually why i think they would go for it.
they can still play each other OOC every year.

Currently they each get a BCS check for whoever represents the ACC (neither of these schools is going to do it).
Don't know how the ACC splits their BCS money.

If NCST were to go to the SEC, then the UNC system gets their check for the ACC rep, PLUS the check from the SEC which quite often gets TWO teams into the BCS bowls.

More money for the entire system.

The move also improves NCST chances in basketball by not being in conference with UNC and Duke.
Which could also mean more $ for the system.

Not saying they definitely would go for it.

Just saying that if I was Slive, that is where I would look.
If not them, someone really similar to them.

I suspect that TV money would eclipse potential bowl money or basketball money.

 

[Pheasant]

I suspect that TV money would eclipse potential bowl money or basketball money.

Wouldn't the TV money also be better if NCSt were in the SEC?

 

[Nicknam4]

Dont forget new WAC member in 2012 - Texas State.

I didn't even know Texas State existed.

 

[jlb1705]

Wouldn't the TV money also be better if NCSt were in the SEC?

Of course. That was implied in my last post. My main point though is that the difference in bowl money and regular season basketball money is likely not that big between the ACC and SEC.

Also, I'm not sure it's correct when Nutria says that it's the "university system" in North Carolina that would stand to benefit. That money doesn't make it past the bottom line of each athletic department's bottom line, and any increase would simply offset the amount of subsidy the department has to draw from the university's general fund or from student fees. It's not as if their athletic departments are drawing money from or contributing it to the same pool.

 

[Nutriaitch]

Also, I'm not sure it's correct when Nutria says that it's the "university system" in North Carolina that would stand to benefit. That money doesn't make it past the bottom line of each athletic department's bottom line, and any increase would simply offset the amount of subsidy the department has to draw from the university's general fund or from student fees. It's not as if their athletic departments are drawing money from or contributing it to the same pool.

i don't know how things are set up with them.

the only model i'm familiar with is the LSU model.
yeah, there are other schools in Louisiana that are part of the LSU system, but none of them are as big or financially sound as LSU.
and none of their athletic departments are worth even mentioning on a message board.

just that when I was looking at teams to potentially add to the East, they made the most sense to me.
I can come up with good reasons why the SEC won't invite others, and why some others wouldn't want the SEC.

NC State fits the mold the SEC should be looking to get.

 

[BB73]

CBS

NCAA head contacts CEOs on realignment

...
The NCAA released this statement first to CBSSports.com through a spokesman:

"President Emmert has had conversations with a number of presidents and commissioners related to recent conference realignment issues and these discussions mirror many of the topics raised last week during the [Division I] presidential meetings."

The presidents came away from that meeting promising radical reform in academics and in enforcement.

What was once thought to be a slam-dunk, done deal for A&M is now fraught with legal entanglements. The New York Times reported that the SEC is possibly leaving itself open for a tortious interference claim should it be perceived that the league is raiding the Big 12. Texas A&M may be looking at a buyout that approaches $30 million if it leaves the Big 12 only 14 months after the 10 remaining schools made a 10-year pledge to stay together.

It's clear that ESPN has a major stake in the issues being discussed. It could be upset that if the SEC gets Texas A&M that would allow the conference to renegotiate a new deal at a higher dollar value. The SEC is two years into a 20-year, $3 billion deal with ESPN and CBS.

If A&M leaves, then that would put in jeopardy the future of the Big 12, which is due to go out to bid in an exclusive negotiating window with ESPN within the next two years. ESPN could also be concerned about the future of, and its investment in, the Longhorn Network at Texas.

In essence, ESPN would be paying more for the SEC but potentially lose a property in the Big 12 if that league breaks up. The net result, potentially, would be less inventory for ESPN to telecast. That's the reason why ESPN and Fox combined to save the Big 12 last summer. If it had dissolved, ESPN would have lost the Big 12 and possibiltiy been shut out of the Pac-12 if that league had gone on the open market.

As it stands, ESPN combined with Fox to get the rights to the new Pac-12.

 

[BB73]

The meeting of aTm President Loftin with Texas legislators today has been postponed. At this point, it's uncertain whether that means it will be rescheduled or if it's just been cancelled.

SI.com

Messy Big 12 divorce inevitable for Texas A&M with SEC looming

...
Loftin refused to say that Texas A&M will seek membership in the SEC, but he did say that he had not communicated with any other conferences. Asked whether legal and semantics issues would require Texas A&M to leave the Big 12 to receive an invitation to join the SEC, Loftin offered a lesson in recent history. "I recall in particular the letter sent to us [in 2010] by the University of Nebraska at Lincoln," Loftin said, "which said simply that 'If we are extended an invitation to join the Big Ten, we would then withdraw from the Big 12.' ... I haven't done anything like that at this point in time, nor thought about it very seriously, but clearly that's a model of last year's event that we can look to and say that's how one school chose to couch their specific termination approach to the Big 12."


There would be several issues if Texas A&M sent such a letter. First, the Big 12 beefed up its exit penalties after last year's near-implosion. The conference likely would expect Texas A&M to pay a whopping fee to leave that could reach as high as $30 million. This is where the lawyers come in, and this is what might take some time. Texas A&M can argue that Texas officials sold the other nine league members a bill of goods when they described the scope of The Longhorn Network and that the network in practice would be a far different entity. Such an argument would hinge on what Texas officials pitched during the meetings in June 2010 that ultimately saved the Big 12. If they described the network accurately, then the other schools with options were suckers for signing up for the new Big 12. If they didn't describe the network accurately, then a school with a wish to depart might have a valid reason to leave with minimal penalty. At any rate, Loftin hopes that even if the Aggies leave the Big 12, they can continue their annual Thanksgiving rivalry with Texas in football. "We see no reason," Loftin said, "why it could not continue under a different conference arrangement."


Also at issue is ESPN, a company whose tendrils penetrate every side of this deal. ESPN runs The Longhorn Network, but its rights deal with the Big 12 also makes it a partner with Texas A&M. ESPN also has a massive rights deal with the SEC. How important is the SEC to the Worldwide Leader? Last month, the network began selling SEC on ESPN-branded clothing on its Web site. It's possible that ESPN may have to step in to keep all of its partners happy. (All the while reporting on the festivities.)

​

Cont'd ...​

If aTm didn't sign a loyalty agreement last year, it might seem reasonable that they only would have to pay the same penalties as Colorado and Nebraska. But there will probably be a messy legal battle before that's settled, because there's also this:

SI.com

...
Loftin said he would have to consider the financial consequences to leaving the Big 12, if Texas A&M wants to go somewhere else. The Big 12, including Texas A&M, agreed to a 13-year television deal with Fox Sports in April that is worth more than $1 billion. If the Aggies leave the conference, there is a chance the contract could be voided, which could lead to legal issues for Texas A&M and its new league.


Texas A&M also could be subject to buyout or exit fees if it bolts.


"I've read the bylaws of the Big 12 and they're confusing to some extent," Loftin said when asked about what costs could be associated with leaving. "So I think there's a lot of room to talk about what that might mean if we choose to explore that option. We have not yet begun that process yet. This is one of the steps we have to take. The issue is looking at the Iong-term and any short-term costs must be weighed against long-term costs and benefits."

​

Cont'd ...

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[knapplc]

If aTm didn't sign a loyalty agreement last year, it would seem reasonable that they only would have to pay the same penalties as Colorado and Nebraska. But there will probably be a messy legal battle before that's settled.

That loyalty pledge was a brilliant move by Texas and/or Dan Beebe. If neither promulgated it, it's the very definition of serendipity for both. Texas has license to do whatever it wants to cash in on the other teams, it can stand by while ESPN strong-arms their conference "brothers" into compliance with every whim of the LHN, and all the while Beebe and Dodds can dangle that loyalty agreement over the heads of anyone who gripes or wants to leave.

 

[BB73]

That loyalty pledge was a brilliant move by Texas and/or Dan Beebe. If neither promulgated it, it's the very definition of serendipity for both. Texas has license to do whatever it wants to cash in on the other teams, it can stand by while ESPN strong-arms their conference "brothers" into compliance with every whim of the LHN, and all the while Beebe and Dodds can dangle that loyalty agreement over the heads of anyone who gripes or wants to leave.

Did the remaining teams actually sign anything, and has anybody seen it? Or was it something that Beebe only talked about the existence of, just top make the league look more stable?

As I stated yesterday, some FOIA requests are in order so that those documents, if they exist, can be seen by the public.

 

[knapplc]

Did the remaining teams actually sign anything, and has anybody seen it? Or was it something that Beebe only talked about the existence of, just top make the league look more stable?

As I stated yesterday, some FOIA requests are in order so that those documents, if they exist, can be seen by the public.

I don't know if anything was ever signed, as in, words on a document. That may be a myth based on the desire by the Big XII to gain confirmation from Nebraska and Colorado that they were staying last year.

Even if there was no signed document, I wonder if a verbal pledge by the remaining schools could be construed as a verbal contract, something with teeth? That I do not know.

 

[Pheasant]

Of course. That was implied in my last post. My main point though is that the difference in bowl money and regular season basketball money is likely not that big between the ACC and SEC.

Also, I'm not sure it's correct when Nutria says that it's the "university system" in North Carolina that would stand to benefit. That money doesn't make it past the bottom line of each athletic department's bottom line, and any increase would simply offset the amount of subsidy the department has to draw from the university's general fund or from student fees. It's not as if their athletic departments are drawing money from or contributing it to the same pool.

Today, after being at work, I can see that.
Yesterday, after working outside all day until I started drinking, I did not.

In the future I'll confine myself to the late night drunk thread when appropriate.

I remember thinking, why wouldn't JLB get this, it seems like such an easy concept...

 

[Mike80]

 

[BB73]

This is an interesting idea. The Big XII adds ND, which stabilizes it after aTm leaves, and they and Texas co-exist with their own TV network deals.

STL.Post-Dispatch

Burwell: Big 12 should go bold, pursue Notre Dame

Cont'd ...