Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[glenn]

and now. the latest in the mudhole series from close to jumping. a little background. the guys on this site realize that a lot of fans get panicky over big games. this series is intentionally provocative and over the top.

Barking Carnival — Blog — Why Texas Stomps a Mudhole in Alabama

and with this, i think it is time for me to move on. i have very much enjoyed the association with you guys. and i have learned a good deal. i wish you the best. you are a legendary program, and the fan base shows it.

i continue to hope we throw in with your conference. hands down the best thing we could do.

my sense of humor is sometimes kind of quirky, and i think i may have offended some people with what i thought was a clever and oblique way to congratulate you guys after your rose bowl win, but i suspect it was actually off base. it certainly wasn't intentional. i thought it would elicit a chuckle, and i hope you will pardon me.

 

[jwinslow]

and with this, i think it is time for me to move on. i have very much enjoyed the association with you guys. and i have learned a good deal. i wish you the best. you are a legendary program, and the fan base shows it.

Hopefully you'll stop by again for other discussions as well, even trivial ones like the consequences of eating cheese.

my sense of humor is sometimes kind of quirky, and i think i may have offended some people with what i thought was a clever and oblique way to congratulate you guys after your rose bowl win, but i suspect it was actually off base. it certainly wasn't intentional. i thought it would elicit a chuckle, and i hope you will pardon me.

Stone him!

 

[Woody1968]

and with this, i think it is time for me to move on. i have very much enjoyed the association with you guys. and i have learned a good deal. i wish you the best. you are a legendary program, and the fan base shows it.

i continue to hope we throw in with your conference. hands down the best thing we could do.

my sense of humor is sometimes kind of quirky, and i think i may have offended some people with what i thought was a clever and oblique way to congratulate you guys after your rose bowl win, but i suspect it was actually off base. it certainly wasn't intentional. i thought it would elicit a chuckle, and i hope you will pardon me.

glenn, it's always nice to have an objective, thoughtful poster here, regardless of whether they are a buckeye fan or not. Your posts are quality, and I'm sure I speak for most everyone here when I say it is a pleasure to have you around. Not sure what you are talking about when it comes to the congratulatory post, but there are many Buckeye fans who are a little oversensitive when it comes to the way our team is percieved from outside the fan base (and sometimes within it, as well!). I suspect that you understand this, given the somewhat lack of respect Texas is getting after the close call against Nebraska. Regardless, you have handled yourself very well here, and we would hate to lose you.

 

[Mrstickball]

New poster,

Really enjoy reading the great discussions. I will probably seem a little childish in this, but the idea of expanding the Big 10 sounds like a great idea.

I haven't been following football a very long time (maybe 4-5 years), so my thought may be a be a little off the wall, but..

1) Does anyone feel this is more of a mid-western conference as opposed to anything else? It would seem that if the B-10 wanted to keep with its geographic region, we would need to look to Kansas, Missouri and Nebraska for new teams.

2) Why doesn't the Big 10 go for the gusto, and become a 16 team conference, similar to what the NFL has?

Maybe its me, but I think a 16 team conference makes more sense than 12 teams.

Example:

Establish 16 teams, expanding the conference by 5 teams.

The 5 teams include:
Nebraska (B12)
Kansas (B12)
Missouri (B12)
West Virginia (Big East)
Pittsburgh (Big East)

Build 4-team conferences, based on geographic regions:

East:
Ohio State
Penn State
West Virginia
Pittsburgh

North:
Michigan
Michigan State
Minnesota
Northwestern

Central:
Indiana
Purdue
Illinois
Missouri
(the powder puff division)

West:
Iowa
Nebraska
Kansas
Wisconsin


Each team would play in-division teams once each (3 games), and then play 4 randomly-chosen teams from the other divisions for a total of 7 in-conference games. Teams play 3 OOC games a year, and a 'rivalry' game each year - a team from another division that will be played at the end of regular season (such as OSU-Michigan). That is 11 games.

After the 11th game, a 2-game championship is played. Winners of each division play in a +1 (Big 10 #1 versus Big 10 #4, Big 10 #2 versus Big 10 #3, then the winners play eachother for their trip to the Rose Bowl or NC game)

Teams not in the championship play in an undercard for positioning for the other bowls, ensuring that all teams play the entire 13-game season.

But why a big-10 tournament? Why not? We do it for basketball as well, which would make football mirror basketball.

What would an Ohio State schedule look like?

Game#: Opponent:
1. Miami (OOC)
2. Cincinatti (OOC)
3. Bowling Green (OOC)
4. Michigan State (Big 10 - North opponent)
5. Penn St. (Division game)
6. Missouri (Big 10 - Central opponent)
7. West Virginia (Division game)
8. Iowa (Big 10 - West opponent)
9. Pittsburgh (Division game)
10. Illinois (Randomly selected Big 10 Opponent)
11. Michigan (rivalry game)
12. Playoff Game #1
13. Playoff Game #2
14. Bowl Game

On the other end, you could eliminate game #10, to lower the number of games to 13 per year.

...And could you imagine how tough such a schedule would be? That'd put the SEC to shame!

Anyway, thats my opinion. I'd really like to see the Big 10 grow as large as possible, and keep the strong midwest tradition. Under this scheme, we would steal away a king's ransom of great Big 12 programs (Kansas for basketball, Nebraska for football), and two strong Big East programs.

...Or is this idea too crazy?

 

[PlanetFrnd]

New poster,

Wow... helluva second post - I'd appreciate your third to be in the http://www.buckeyeplanet.com/forum/...safe/11958-origin-your-screenname-merged.html thread

 

[FCollinsBuckeye]

and with this, i think it is time for me to move on. i have very much enjoyed the association with you guys. and i have learned a good deal. i wish you the best.

Thanks for all of your input here, Glenn - as has been mentioned, it's great to gain some thoughtful insight from other programs. Hope you drop by from time to time. Best of luck tonight!

Hook 'em!

 

[Muck]

Nebraska (B12)
West Virginia (Big East)
Pittsburgh (Big East)

The only problem being that these schools don't add additional money to the conference.

West Virginia & Nebraska don't have enough TV sets to make expanding the Big Ten network in their region worthwhile & Pennsylvania is already adequately covered by Penn State.

That's why I brought up schools like Maryland, Rutgers & Syracuse in my version of the mega Big 10.

 

[Mrstickball]

The only problem being that these schools don't add additional money to the conference.

West Virginia & Nebraska don't have enough TV sets to make expanding the Big Ten network in their region worthwhile & Pennsylvania is already adequately covered by Penn State.

That's why I brought up schools like Maryland, Rutgers & Syracuse in my version of the mega Big 10.

Fine then:

Replace Nebraska with Boise St. (expansion into the PNW, and you get a hot-button team put in a legitimate conference. I really think you need another west team under a big-16 system)
Replace West Virginia with Va. Tech (Virginia would be a good market, as per your suggestions. I just don't like the idea of the B-10 expanding much eastward)
Then Pittsburgh with one of the others you recommended...Rutgers would be my choice.

 

[Muck]

Replace Nebraska with Boise St. (expansion into the PNW, and you get a hot-button team put in a legitimate conference. I really think you need another west team under a big-16 system)

How is Boise State a fit for the Big 10 academically?

Is the Boise TV market worth tapping into? Even if it brings along Coeur d'Alene?

I just don't like the idea of the B-10 expanding much eastward)

I don't really disagree with ya there but ya gotta go where it financially makes sense for the conference...otherwise why bother?

I don't know if you've read through the thread all the way through but there are a couple of posts that do an excellent job of focusing on exactly what criteria among the candidates will be important to the Big Ten presidents when/if they seriously decide it's time to expand.

Like you I'm actually a proponent of going BIG or not going at all. I just believe that list of schools that will seriously be looked at by the Big Ten is a very narrow one (my fantasy Toronto membership nonwithstanding).


BTW welcome aboard & don't take the criticism to heart!

 

[Zurp]

...Or is this idea too crazy?

Too crazy to happen anytime soon? Yep.
Too crazy for me to like? Absolutely not. I like this idea. Although, I don't typically like the "adding more games after the season is over" for the teams that don't make the "Big Ten Playoffs". I think that too many teams would not get "up" for that last extra game. I don't know that the NCAA would go for this set-up, anyway. I'd be surprised if they haven't already set rules for splitting a conference into divisions, and championship games, and such.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

sorry about last night, glenn. UT is one of only a couple of non-Big Ten teams that I actively root for. That being said, the folks in the B10 office are a little concerned about this. Any possibility of doing something about it?

 

[Mrstickball]

How is Boise State a fit for the Big 10 academically?

Is the Boise TV market worth tapping into? Even if it brings along Coeur d'Alene?

I just don't like the idea of the B-10 expanding much eastward)[/qoute]

I don't really disagree with ya there but ya gotta go where it financially makes sense for the conference...otherwise why bother?

I don't know if you've read through the thread all the way through but there are a couple of posts that do an excellent job of focusing on exactly what criteria among the candidates will be important to the Big Ten presidents when/if they seriously decide it's time to expand.

Like you I'm actually a proponent of going BIG or not going at all. I just believe that list of schools that will seriously be looked at by the Big Ten is a very narrow one (my fantasy Toronto membership nonwithstanding).


BTW welcome aboard & don't take the criticism to heart!

I guess the question comes (to me) to 'what makes a prospective team worthwhile to add to the big ten?'

- Academia? Most of the teams (Va. Tech, Pittsburgh, Kansas, Nebraska) I listed are in the top 100 schools in the nation (National Universities Rankings - Best Colleges - Education - US News and World Report)
- Makes financial sense? There are multiple ways to look at that. Although some colleges bring in new market shares (such as the east coast), good programs will bring in viewership thanks to the fact they are good. Who do you think would generate more interest nationwide? Nebraska or Rutgers?

Here is a list for you (took some digging) for revenue by college team:

Orlando Sentinel - College Gridiron 365 Blog – How much revenue did your favorite Football Bowl Subdivision school take in in 2007-08? This chart will tell you

Look at the list. Nebraska, despite being in the middle of nowhere, was the 20th highest-grossing college team in the nation. For comparison, the worst Big 10 program is Northwestern at #59.


So lets do some comparative analysis. I'm a business analyst, so I built a chart for everyone.

It compares rankings for the most prestigious schools in America (cutoff is at 100) and the highest-grossing schools for sports revenue as well. I included a large number of potential B-10 candidates, and where they ranked. Some of the numbers may surprise you.

I am certain there are other metrics to consider, but I thought that football, basketball, and academia would be the best barometers.

Here is the list. I averaged the values (with lower rankings being better), to come up with the 'best of candidates' list:

Big 10 Candidates

If the list is to be considered, the top teams to join the B-10 are:

1. Notre Dame (#20 for schools, #17 for football. Would be the 2nd-best Big 10 program, just below Michigan)
2. Virginia (#24 for schools, #26 for football)
3. Boston College (#34 for schools, #32 for football)
4. Maryland (#53 for schools, #41 for football, #9 for basketball)
5. Kansas (#96 for schools, #11 for football, #5 for basketball)
6. Syracuse (#58 for schools, #54 for football, #12 for basketball)

Everyone else is below the worst-rated Big 10 team, currently (Purdue), but are quite close:

1. Pittsburgh (46 points, same as Purdue)
2. Kentucky (51 points)
3. Va. Tech (54 points)
4. Rutgers (56 points)
5. Nebraska (58 points)
6. Missouri (72 points)

It really depends on the methodology, too. If most valuable sports programs has a higher weight, then you'd have to have Nebraska up there, as they are the 4th most valuable college team in sports, as per Forbes. If you take Basketball out of the picture (as it grosses about 1/5th that of football), you would weight Va. Tech a bit higher into the discussion. Kentucky is also a dark horse if the academia side was a little....Weaker. It is a ranked school, but barely above a Tier-3 (unranked) school. If that wasn't out of the discussion, the Kentucky would be the most logical choice from a revenue/location standpoint.

 

[ScriptOhio]

Mike Brey was preparing to join Big Ten in 2003

But Notre Dame basketball coach says Irish decided against move at last minute

Notre Dame basketball coach Mike Brey said Thursday that during his fourth season in South Bend, the Irish were on the cusp on joining the Big Ten.
Brey recalled athletic director Kevin White telling him in November 2003 to get ready for the move.
"He told me to be prepared; we were going to the Big Ten," Brey said during a conference call. "Obviously, that decision changed in the 11th hour."

Entire article: Mike Brey was preparing to join Big Ten in 2003 - chicagotribune.com

 

[Muck]

- Makes financial sense? There are multiple ways to look at that. Although some colleges bring in new market shares (such as the east coast), good programs will bring in viewership thanks to the fact they are good. Who do you think would generate more interest nationwide? Nebraska or Rutgers?

The only way to look at it that matters is the one that is important to the Big Ten presidents & one of their major issues is selling the Big Ten network.

Part of the reason I suggested that you might want to look back through the thread is it covers why certain teams like Nebraska are non-starters (partial qualifiers being one of the issues when it comes to UNL).

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Big 10 Candidates

If the list is to be considered, the top teams to join the B-10 are:

1. Notre Dame (#20 for schools, #17 for football. Would be the 2nd-best Big 10 program, just below Michigan)
2. Virginia (#24 for schools, #26 for football)
3. Boston College (#34 for schools, #32 for football)
4. Maryland (#53 for schools, #41 for football, #9 for basketball)
5. Kansas (#96 for schools, #11 for football, #5 for basketball)
6. Syracuse (#58 for schools, #54 for football, #12 for basketball)

Everyone else is below the worst-rated Big 10 team, currently (Purdue), but are quite close:

1. Pittsburgh (46 points, same as Purdue)
2. Kentucky (51 points)
3. Va. Tech (54 points)
4. Rutgers (56 points)
5. Nebraska (58 points)
6. Missouri (72 points)

[cough, cough] Texas [/cough, cough]