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Barry Bonds (Juiced Merge)

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wow....Bonds was quoted as saying today that he thought the news conference went very well for him....:crazy:

Barry Bonds does not care about baseball in general or its past. He has always been about himself.....he said he didnt know what cheating was....I doubt he is that ignorant.....its obvious to anyone with two brain cells that he took some form of steriods......thats to bad because he didnt really need them, he was once a great naturally talented player....now I would describe him as nothing but a lie.....his numbers are skewed because of his steriod use and that is something that will be hard for the diehard baseball fan to forget about....but I doubt Barry will lose any sleep over that.

If there are any non believers about his steriod use, just compare a picture of his head deminsions when he was in his 20's and look at what he looks like in his 40's....your head doesnt continue to grow in your 40's......:roll2:
 
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gost8 said:
He admitted to using them. If you believe he didn't know what they were... I don't even know what to say about that. I can't imagine someone hearing the statement, I used steriods but I didn't know they were steriods, and believing it. Maybe I am the one that is far out here. If I get pulled over and the officer says, have you been drinking? I will try saying, yes but I didn't know it was beer and see if he lets me go. :roll1:
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You seem to be of the opinion that I don't agree with your opinion about Bonds' steroid use, despite the fact that I explicitly stated - and I'll say it again - that I think he did use them. We're not in disagreement here, so what's with the :roll1: ?

My point is, we have no proof of what exactly he used, and when he used it. His admission of the cream only keeps him from perjuring himself, but does nothing to suggest how much he used and how much it, conceivably, helped him hit homers.

If the players union fought having steriod testing done wouldn't you assume it is so they don't have to stop using it?
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That's exactly what I assume. Again, we're in agreement here.

My point is, it isn't enough to blame the owners because they wanted "asses in the seats", when the players union is every bit as culpable.

I don't care about Babe Ruth's vices. He hit 700+ naturally and I think that is the point that people that like baseball purity are trying to make.
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There's no such thing as "purity" in baseball.

The ball can be wound to different compressions - and has been over the years. Ever heard of the "dead ball" era? How about a "juiced" ball? Each is only a minor adjustment in compression, but can sure change the game. The mounds are raised and lowered - and have been over the years. The stadiums change - to this day teams move their fences in and out to their liking.

This has been going on since the game was invented. To suggest the game was pure until steroids came along doesn't make sense to me, in light of all of the above.

The point to suing does not always have to be money. How about clearing your name?
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How can they clear their name, innocent or not? They can't prove he's lying, all they can do is argue with him. There's no point.

I also can't "prove" that Secretariat would not have won the triple crown with three legs but common sense tells me that I might be right.
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:roll2:
You know, condescension works better when you actually read what the other guy says first. For the umpteenth time - I think Bonds used steroids so stop preaching to me like I can't understand you - I get it, and I agree with your assumption. Unlike you, however, I don't presume to know how many more homers steroids got for Bonds.

I also disagree with the notion that baseball was "pure" until steroids, as well as the notion that we should not recognize certain achievements because it sure looks like the guy was on something, even though we can't say exactly what, for how long, and how much it might have helped him.

Like I said earlier, if a guy admitting he was on steroids is enough, then it's time to talk about the Steelers' 4 Super Bowls in 6 years in the 70s, since some of those players have since admitted to steroid use during that time.

Where's the indignation over that steroid use? Did they not ruin the "purity" of the game? Why is the Bonds issue so different?
 
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Misanthrope said:
You seem to be of the opinion that I don't agree with your opinion about Bonds' steroid use, despite the fact that I explicitly stated - and I'll say it again - that I think he did use them. We're not in disagreement here, so what's with the :roll1: ?

My point is, we have no proof of what exactly he used, and when he used it. His admission of the cream only keeps him from perjuring himself, but does nothing to suggest how much he used and how much it, conceivably, helped him hit homers.

That's exactly what I assume. Again, we're in agreement here.

My point is, it isn't enough to blame the owners because they wanted "asses in the seats", when the players union is every bit as culpable.

There's no such thing as "purity" in baseball.

The ball can be wound to different compressions - and has been over the years. Ever heard of the "dead ball" era? How about a "juiced" ball? Each is only a minor adjustment in compression, but can sure change the game. The mounds are raised and lowered - and have been over the years. The stadiums change - to this day teams move their fences in and out to their liking.

This has been going on since the game was invented. To suggest the game was pure until steroids came along doesn't make sense to me, in light of all of the above.

How can they clear their name, innocent or not? They can't prove he's lying, all they can do is argue with him. There's no point.

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:roll2:
You know, condescension works better when you actually read what the other guy says first. For the umpteenth time - I think Bonds used steroids so stop preaching to me like I can't understand you - I get it, and I agree with your assumption. Unlike you, however, I don't presume to know how many more homers steroids got for Bonds.

I also disagree with the notion that baseball was "pure" until steroids, as well as the notion that we should not recognize certain achievements because it sure looks like the guy was on something, even though we can't say exactly what, for how long, and how much it might have helped him.

Like I said earlier, if a guy admitting he was on steroids is enough, then it's time to talk about the Steelers' 4 Super Bowls in 6 years in the 70s, since some of those players have since admitted to steroid use during that time.

Where's the indignation over that steroid use? Did they not ruin the "purity" of the game? Why is the Bonds issue so different?
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Stop assuming I am only speaking to you. This thread is about Barry Bonds. If someone starts a thread about roids in football I will weigh in on it there. All the things YOU have brought up here are valid points. Juiced ball, dead balls. raising or lowering the mounds are all things that effect the whole league at once. Roids give an individual an advantage. I showed my proof that him using steroids changed his abilities. I have no doubt that he would have been in the upper 60s or 70s each year after he 73, if teams would have pitched to him. You simply do not average 33 homers for 15 years, then put on 30 lbs. of muscle (towards the end of your career) and then blast 73 because you work harder in the off season. So lets put the numbers together. Lets boost up his average to 35 per year to give him the benefit of the doubt. So in 18 seasons that would give him 630. Great number but still 125 short. Lets also assume that into his 40s without roids he could continue to average 35. (doubtful) He would not be in Aaron's neighbor hood till he was almost 44. I mean with your argument even if he came out tomorrow and said I injected steroids in my ass for the last 6 seasons it wouldn't matter because there is no way to prove that they helped him hit homeruns. I understand we both think he used steroids. I think they had a significant impact on his power and therefore homerun hitting ability. You say just because we can't prove what he used, how long he used it, or if it made any difference it is OK, give him a record that took 23 years of real hard work and God given talent (as opposed to lab given talent) to put up. Also I didn't mean to be condescending towards anyone, I was just trying to make an example about the fact that, no I can't say steroids helped Barry Bonds hit 233 more home runs than he would have without them. But common sense tells me that they did make hits that would have been deep flyballs for outs become homeruns. Therefore they helped him hit SOME more homeruns.
Anyway this is getting silly. I am not arguing over a guy I don't think is worth arguing about. I have an opinion and you have an opinion. We agree on some points but they differ on the most important point. (In my opinion.)

This thread for me is CLOSED.
 
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gost8 said:
Stop assuming I am only speaking to you.
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Assuming? :confused:
You specifically quoted me SEVEN times.

Anyway this is getting silly. I am not arguing over a guy I don't think is worth arguing about. I have an opinion and you have an opinion. We agree on some points but they differ on the most important point. (In my opinion.)

This thread for me is CLOSED.
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I agree. I've debated this more than enough.
 
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Bonds says he may miss most of the season

That's OK Barry, you might miss the season, but the season won't miss you.

It must be a bitch trying to recover from surgery without steroids. I hope to hell he doesn't get past Hank Aaron's 755.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/3482436

SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. (AP) - Leaning his head on a crutch and repeatedly saying he was tired, Barry Bonds said he might miss the entire season following his latest knee surgery.


<!-- esi: /widget/story/videoAndPhotoGallery?contentId=3482436-->"Right now I'm just going to try to rehab myself to get back to, I don't know, hopefully next season, hopefully the middle of the season. I don't know. Right now I'm just going to take things slow," he said Tuesday after meeting with San Francisco Giants trainer Stan Conte for 1½ hours.


"I'm 40 years old, not 20, 30."

The seven-time NL MVP, who returned to spring camp Tuesday following last week's surgery, made his remarks while sitting at a picnic table outside the Giants' clubhouse with his 15-year-old son, Nikolai, at his side.

Bonds said he was tired and disappointed following a winter in which he was accused of steroid use, his grand jury testimony was leaked and he had two knee operations. He blamed his troubles on the media.

"You wanted me to jump off a bridge, I finally did," Bonds said. "You wanted to bring me down... you finally brought me and my family down."

Bonds had his latest surgery last Thursday in the Bay Area. Though the Giants have not set a timetable for his return, Conte has said it's unlikely he'll be ready for opening day.

"My son and I are just going to enjoy our lives. You guys wanted to hurt me bad enough, you finally got me," Bonds said. "I'm mentally drained. I'm tired of my kids crying."

Bonds begins the season third on the career homers list with 703, trailing Babe Ruth (714) and Hank Aaron (755).

Last September, the Giants dropped a provision that would have allowed them to void Bonds' $18 million salary in 2006 if he failed to reach 500 plate appearances this year or 1,500 combined from 2003 to 2005, including at least 400 this year.

<!-- search:<noindex> --><!-- esi: /widget/story/top_stories?catId=49-->
 
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"You wanted me to jump off a bridge, I finally did," Bonds said. "You wanted to bring me down... you finally brought me and my family down."


"My son and I are just going to enjoy our lives. You guys wanted to hurt me bad enough, you finally got me," Bonds said. "I'm mentally drained. I'm tired of my kids crying."
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So whats he saying, that the media gave him steroids that he took "unknowingly" as well as his trainer ? Just don't see how this is anyones fault but his, then again he strikes me as the type who finds a reason to blame anyone but himself.

Next the conspiracy theory will resurface that the evil baseball/media/wasp complex that runs the US went after him because he's black and Babe Ruth was white.
 
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hahaha.

I hope to hell he don't break that record either, and they should strip him of the single season home run record to.

Ask Griffey how easy it is to come back from injury if you are not on steroids. That is why Griff is one of my favorites b/c he plays for the love of the game.
 
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For a guy who claims to not care what people think, he certainly spends an awful lot of time whining about the fans, the media, and the adulation that other players get. Heartbreaking he won't be out there (not).
 
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One thing I've never understood is why, if you make the decision to walk him anyway, they just didn't drill his ass a lot more often.

I mean what have you got to lose? He showboats every HR anyway, that used to be enough to get you plunked right there.

Also, it's not like anyone gets hurt in baseball fights and maybe he'd back off the plate a tad. If nothing else it would be extremely satisfying to see him get one in the ear hole once or twice a week or maybe get Ventura'd if he did find the (shrunken) testicular fortitude to charge the mound.
 
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