30 Days

[FKAGobucks877]

I don't give a shit about minimum wage. I give a shit about how my money goes to these lazy assholes. This guy could go to college for free, because the government will pay for it (ie, taxpayers money). I have no sympathy, and I think we need to call for welfare reform, so we stop encouraging lazy pieces of shit to pop out 15 kids each so they get more money.

Soapbox aside, this particular "class" of people does not encompass my gripe. There are plenty of people out there that work their asses off for little money...and I respect them for working. Whether raising minimum wage would help, I don't know...but at least those people are willing to work. I fucking hate the entire welfare system. For example:






Illegal Immigrants Poem

I cross ocean,
poor and broke,
Take bus,
see employment folk.

Nice man treat me
good in there,
Say I need to
see welfare.

Welfare say,
"You come no more,
We send cash
right to your door."

Welfare checks,
they make you wealthy,
Medicaid it keep
you healthy!

By and by,
I got plenty money,
Thanks to you,
American dummy.

Write to friends
in motherland,
Tell them 'come
fast as you can.'

They come in turbans
and Ford trucks,
I buy big house
with welfare bucks

They come here,
we live together,
More welfare checks,
it gets better!

Fourteen families,
they moving in,
But neighbor's patience
wearing thin.

Finally, white guy
moves away,
Now I buy his house,
and then I say,

"Find more aliens
for house to rent."
And in the yard,
I put a tent

Send for family,
they just trash,
But they, too,
draw the welfare cash!

Everything is
very good,
And soon we
own the neighborhood.

We have hobby
it's called breeding,
Welfare pay
for baby feeding.

Kids need dentist?
Wife need pills?
We get free!
We got no bills !

American crazy!
He pay all year,
To keep welfare
running here.

We think America
darn good place!
Too darn good for
the white man race.

If they no like us,
they can scram,
Got lots of room in
Pakistan.

 

[BrutuStrength]

Not really...the market will pay a little as it can...

Partly right. It would be more correct to stay that they will only pay as much as needed. The amount that they will pay is market driven, ala supply and demand. Just like consumers buying goods. Why pay $20 for an item that you can get for $12?

As stx alluded to, the more unique a person's talents/skillsets, as long as those talents/skills are in demand, the more a person will be able to earn. This doesn't just apply to kids in school though. Many professionals have to keep up with the latest training/certifications to remain in demand. I know that my MCSE certification in NT 4 is worth very little right now. If I want to get back into MS network positions then I will need to pursue additional training/certifications.

...many are forced to take these jobs because of layoffs, downsizing, and other factors.

My previous position as an IT consultant was terminated. Thanks to the unemployment I received (which is paid by corporations, not the government) for six months, we were able to barely get by. While I was on unemployment and applying for numerous jobs daily, I continued to study various IT books to make sure that I would be able to step in and work with the latest technologies. I then was able to land a job as a contractor that paid less than my previous job, but my skills and work experience were sufficient enough that I received well above minimum wage, around $18 /hour. I was then able to regain a position in SAP administration and am earning a nice salary to date.

The general point remains that if people continue to further their education/skillsets then they can remain in demand. They might encounter some bumpy times and even learn new skills to stay in demand.

Going back to the whole "supply and demand" thing, increases in minimum wage require those costs to be offset. The companies are not usually able/willing to eat those additional cost, so they pass that increase off to the consumer. That means that Joe Blow who just got a $.50 raise now has to pay $.10 - $.20 more (at a minimum) for nearly every good or service that he pays for. In the end, the raise in minimum wage doesn't even help guys at that level.

So why do unions and other groups lobby for increases in the minimum wage? Quite simply, because it only helps their members. They use such increases as a means to justify getting their $22 an hour guys even more money. They use the logic that if someone flipping burgers for $5.75 an hour gets a raise to $6.25 an hour, then their guys getting at a rate of $22 hourly should get $24.

Now then, that $2 an hour raise is just the tip of the iceberg. Where the union guys will really get better is in the overtime and shift differential departments. In those cases they'll be making anywhere from $3 - $6 more per hour. That's how they outlast the economic problems caused by the general increase in minimum wage.

The actual minimum wage earners will continue to struggle. The salary earners will pay more for their goods/services, so their pay will actually buy them less than before. The Union guys that are already making $20+ an hour will pick up the minimum wage differential in their hourly pay, and will then exceed that mark by an additional 10 - 20%. So only the organized labor folks come out on top, everyone else loses.

 

[scarletandgrey]

Going back to the whole "supply and demand" thing, increases in minimum wage require those costs to be offset. The companies are not usually able/willing to eat those additional cost, so they pass that increase off to the consumer. That means that Joe Blow who just got a $.50 raise now has to pay $.10 - $.20 more (at a minimum) for nearly every good or service that he pays for. In the end, the raise in minimum wage doesn't even help guys at that level.

So why do unions and other groups lobby for increases in the minimum wage? Quite simply, because it only helps their members. They use such increases as a means to justify getting their $22 an hour guys even more money. They use the logic that if someone flipping burgers for $5.75 an hour gets a raise to $6.25 an hour, then their guys getting at a rate of $22 hourly should get $24.

Now then, that $2 an hour raise is just the tip of the iceberg. Where the union guys will really get better is in the overtime and shift differential departments. In those cases they'll be making anywhere from $3 - $6 more per hour. That's how they outlast the economic problems caused by the general increase in minimum wage.

The actual minimum wage earners will continue to struggle. The salary earners will pay more for their goods/services, so their pay will actually buy them less than before. The Union guys that are already making $20+ an hour will pick up the minimum wage differential in their hourly pay, and will then exceed that mark by an additional 10 - 20%. So only the organized labor folks come out on top, everyone else loses.

I'm not one to debate a person and even though this sounds logical I feel this is something that is your opinion and not fact.

I do believe that when they raise minimum wage that prices inflate on almost everything. this in turn affects the rest of us who don't make minimum wage because we are not compensated for the rate increase and therefore are actually taking a step back financially (IMO)

 

[Wingate1217]

Few years ago I was employed as a area manager for a convenience store chain in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I had a guy in one of my locations who could work no more than 25 hours a week otherwise he would lose his entitlement benefits, even though I could have scheduled him for 40+ hours a week. This same guy "taught" his children to act "stupid" when they (the family) received an evaluation from the gov't. It seems there is another entitlement when the children in the family where judged "slow" by the state. After talking to some of his children, (and that is were I got the "we were told to act stupid" part) the kids are anything but stupid. They were actually pretty smart! I just have a problem with a gov't that does not encourage people to work but to sit on their butts or not work to there full potential (ala only working 25 hours a week when 40 could be had). People have figured out that they can make more $ sitting on their butt instead of working a minimum or close to minimum wage job.

It would make more sense to me to have the gov't handle welfare the following way:

1) Every able bodied individual who can work should work. If you are unable due to physical or mental problems then you still receive your full benefit.

2) Give the individual an incentive to work the less paying job. For example, if welfare paid my family $1000 a month, why would I work a $6.00/hr job and make less money? No incentive to work exists! Rather i would like to have the gov't let the guy work and make his $240 /week ($960/month) and subsidise him $500 a month along with teaching him/her a marketable skill. That way the family is $400+ better off a month, he/she learns a skill which should make them more $ per hour down the round, and by the way the taxpayers are better off by $500 a month also.

 

[BrutuStrength]

I'm not one to debate a person and even though this sounds logical I feel this is something that is your opinion and not fact.

You can call me opinionated, you can even call me factual, just don't call me late for dinner. (Heh heh, heh eh... ewww... sorry about that one.)

Well, yes, while it might be my opinion, it's derived from various reports that I've read, real life experiences, etc. If you feel the need for me to add links of various reports and other peolples' opinions to lend credence to my information, then I can likely do that for you.

The fact is that when costs go up, prices go up or costs are reduced elsewhere. What I dealt with previously was just a simple explanation of the winners and losers of such changes. There always need to be a winner, right? Otherwise nobody would be pushing for such changes.

Most commonly what happens when the minimum wage increases, is that most large companies will freeze new hirings, reduce promotion and cost of living increases, and try to get rid of some employees through natural attrition processes. Small companies will often need to dump workers quicker. Unemployment levels then rise, especially among teenagers and less educated people.

The goal of having a minimum wage is to help everyone have an income that allows for them to provide for themselves. But when lower jobs are eliminated because wages are forced up, the amount of people not working increases too. So what results is a struggle between the lesser of to evils, being: is it better to employ more people at a lower wage level or to offer better wages but maintain a higher level of unemployment? A delicate balance indeed.

I do believe that when they raise minimum wage that prices inflate on almost everything. this in turn affects the rest of us who don't make minimum wage because we are not compensated for the rate increase and therefore are actually taking a step back financially (IMO)

We've seen this happen recently due to high oil and gas prices. Airlines won't eat the extra expense are now adding additional "fuel" charges to airfares and are reducing snacks/meals.

Also, to be fair, I didn't have time (due to a meeting) to get to the effects on fixed income recipients. Retired people that rely on SS will face an increase in expenses even though their pay is stagnant. Of course our tax dollars will help offset increases in their medical treatments (thanks to Medicaid) and the like, but their everyday household items and utility expenses will increase.

This also imacts welfare recipients. The cost of living index increases with increased wages, and don't forget about the increased unemployment levels we discussed earlier. So people on welfare (and now there will be more of them) will need more subsidizing from the taxpayers to handle their increased expenses as well.

All of these problems result from increased wages, and we haven't even gotten to the problem of outsourcing yet. If it's already cheaper to have things manufactured in China at the present minimum wage level, does anyone think that their government-subsidized businesses will be hurt by our manufacturing expenses rising in the US? Of course not, they'll gain an even greater advantage over us.

 

[stxbuck]

BrutusS-just curious-when you were applying daily for these IT jobs-how did you find out about them-company website, friends grapevine, want ads-as a teacher my job search pattern is probably different than someone in a tech industry?

 

[BrutuStrength]

BrutusS-just curious-when you were applying daily for these IT jobs-how did you find out about them-company website, friends grapevine, want ads-as a teacher my job search pattern is probably different than someone in a tech industry?

I did a lot of searching online. Since I live in the Cleveland area, I found Careerboard.com to be my favorite. I actually found my present job, though, at cleveland.com, which is basically the Cleveland Plain Dealer online. Careerbuilder was also pretty good. Monster and Dice had some listings, but the other sites covered my region better.

Even when I was a contractor, I would use my lunch and break times to search the sites and email resumes. I was always looking for other opportunities. I also worked with my manager to try and secure full-time employment with them, but I had to wait 6 months due to my contractor status. I was within a few weeks of getting a full-time job with them, when I got my present job.

I'd think that there are probably sites that have listings for teaching jobs, in addition to the sites I've already mentioned. You might do well to just do a search for "teaching jobs."

 

[stxbuck]

That is basically the same way teaching works-Dayton Daily, plus check the website of every school you are interested in. I am not looking for a new job/career, I was just asking you because I have always heard "the best jobs aren't advetsed for/found in want-ads, on-line,etc".

 

[BrutuStrength]

That is basically the same way teaching works-Dayton Daily, plus check the website of every school you are interested in. I am not looking for a new job/career, I was just asking you because I have always heard "the best jobs aren't advetsed for/found in want-ads, on-line,etc".

You're right about most of the "best" jobs. Many go unadvertised. I paid for a service to help with my job search, and they had a program that was built on networking. It's a great technique that can be very effective, but I found my job before I needed to use it. That program also requires a number of contacts, and I didn't have many at the time. It's probably better suited for someone with 10+ years working.

I did find the negotiation tips to be very helpful though, and the increased salary I negotiated paid for itself within a year. It was an expensive course, but effective.