2018 tOSU Offense Discussion

[Hstead]

My point is that using 4 WRs does not imminently take a guy out of the box like buklpower seems to be thinking will happen. Also, there are still 4 DBs on the field, actually most likely 5 DBs to cover our 4 WRs, so NO there is not a mismatch with a LB on a wide out. The picture is a perfect example of how defenses are not going to take a guy out of the box just because we put one more smaller receiver in for larger TE. That is not how it works. They can put as many as they like in the box with their nickle package because as most d coors understand, the nickle back is probably more likely to tackle our R B in open field than a LB is anyway.

I understand a WR may make a bigger play than a TE, but the same exact reason that TEs even exist is because they are in fact the mismatch for the defender. They are larger targets.

This entire conversation started because buklpower is trying to make the argument that we need to abandon the TE for a 4th WR to open up the run game by taking a player out of the box. My point is, that is not going to happen even if we lined up with 4 WRs every play, hence the picture is a perfect example of why. Just because you take a TE out does not guarantee a player leaves the box, quite the contrary so 4 WRs is NOT the answer to eliminating a player to even the numbers in the run game.

 

[bukIpower]

My point is that using 4 WRs does not imminently take a guy out of the box like buklpower seems to be thinking will happen. Also, there are still 4 DBs on the field, actually most likely 5 DBs to cover our 4 WRs, so NO there is not a mismatch with a LB on a wide out. The picture is a perfect example of how defenses are not going to take a guy out of the box just because we put one more smaller receiver in for larger TE. That is not how it works. They can put as many as they like in the box with their nickle package because as most d coors understand, the nickle back is probably more likely to tackle our R B in open field than a LB is anyway.

I understand a WR may make a bigger play than a TE, but the same exact reason that TEs even exist is because they are in fact the mismatch for the defender. They are larger targets.

This entire conversation started because buklpower is trying to make the argument that we need to abandon the TE for a 4th WR to open up the run game by taking a player out of the box. My point is, that is not going to happen even if we lined up with 4 WRs every play, hence the picture is a perfect example of why. Just because you take a TE out does not guarantee a player leaves the box, quite the contrary so 4 WRs is NOT the answer to eliminating a player to even the numbers in the run game.

I realize it gaurantees nothing but if we are going to be pass first then lets go full go into it.

Whether its a safety or a LB it's a mismatch on one of our WRs.

Fully understand the numbers but my point of view is to make as many plays outside as possible and it just may get folks out of the box.

Throw to run the ball...while we seem to be doing that what I believe is hurting us is we are in a little too tight with our formation and no one respects our TE running a route. It's not too difficult to read run and crash the party right now.

IMO make them worry even more so out wide or deep and it should open things up.

 

[Poe McKnoe]

I don't think this is it at all. Most of the positive yards we do get is because Webber or Dobbins made someone miss or they just ran someone over. I've seen maybe a handful of free holes for them to run through this year. Not sure if it's scheme or the o-line, probably a little of both, but the backs are the last place I'd lay blame on. Webber fighting for that 4th and 2 he probably didn't get was a microcosm of what the backs have had to put up with all year.

I think both running backs are frustrated that they aren’t getting chunk yards / explosive plays like the last 2 years. My view is that their efforts have waned as a result of the o-line efficiency, and the numbers correlate even if it’s not the cause.

 

[scarletngray]

Just wish we would take the TE out (or Ruckert in) and try to put even more stress on the defense throwing the ball.

If we cant line up and pound with a TE then at least force them into either their nickle. Take my odds with Dobbins/Weber against a 195 pound DB over a 230 pound linebacker.

We are struggling to score right now because we are forcing things. 2 TEs isn't helping us run the ball and it's actually making everything easier to defend. We are convinced that the way we run the ball is by adding people to run block and I just cant stress enough that that isn't the only way to do it.

You can either add more blockers on offense or subtract defenders from the box. Goes both ways.

Ask yourself this... ever watched overtime regular season hockey? 4 on 4 is up and down the ice with non stop scoring chances. God forbid if you take a penalty and its 4 on 3 because there's so much open ice to operate with.

My point? Its better to force teams out of the box than to just keep adding people to block. Giving the OL and the Backs better views of an open box would go a long ways.

We think we've tried a lot to fix this but IMO we haven't even begun trying.

Whatever strategy/scheme was being used in our last TD drive against Minny worked perfectly. Both the run and the pass was working. Reach this balance and it won't be close.

 

[bukIpower]

I think both running backs are frustrated that they aren’t getting chunk yards / explosive plays like the last 2 years. My view is that their efforts have waned as a result of the o-line efficiency, and the numbers correlate even if it’s not the cause.

I do think they're trying to do too much... there was an outside play that Weber could've got an extra 3-5 yards against Minnesota but he started dancing which led to him losing out on those yards.

Backs just need to settle down and put their pads down when things close up. Stop trying to hit the 20 yarder and just get those 5-7 yarders.

Less is more sometimes.

Have a feeling we get free a few times this weekend tho.

 

[brodybuck21]

I do think they're trying to do too much... there was an outside play that Weber could've got an extra 3-5 yards against Minnesota but he started dancing which led to him losing out on those yards.

Backs just need to settle down and put their pads down when things close up. Stop trying to hit the 20 yarder and just get those 5-7 yarders.

Less is more sometimes.

Have a feeling we get free a few times this weekend tho.

bolded above times infinity!

 

[jwinslow]

 

[ScriptOhio]

CAN OHIO STATE WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP WITH A PASS-FIRST, RUN-SECOND OFFENSE?

With Dwayne Haskins at quarterback and a loaded group of wideouts at his disposal, Ohio State is flying high with its most explosive aerial attack in two decades.

Go back 20 years to 1998 and it was quarterback Joe Germaine rewriting Ohio State's history book, setting 11 new benchmarks — most notably a school record 3,330 passing yards in one season.

That offense, with David Boston and Dee Miller catching everything in sight, was steamrolling its way to a national title when it hosted Michigan State (and its head coach Nick Saban) in Week 10. The Buckeyes were undefeated, ranked No. 1 nationally and huge favorites over the Spartans.

It all fell apart when the passing attack faded. Ohio State managed to throw for just 239 yards, and with an uninspiring rushing attack that averaged just 2.4 yards per carry that afternoon, the Buckeyes couldn't hold on to a 15-point second half lead before falling 28-24.

When you look at the Ohio State football teams that managed to win a national championship, commonalities come up immediately. The most common of those, however, is a consistent rushing attack that pulled those teams to the mountaintop.

That's not something Urban Meyer and the Buckeyes have been able to produce through seven games this year.

Without a dual-threat at quarterback, running backs J.K. Dobbins and Mike Weber haven't been able to bring any consistency to the running game. The Buckeyes rank just 53rd nationally with 185.4 rushing yards per game, but that number is largely inflated by two games. If you take away the 600 rushing yards Ohio State piled up against Oregon State and Rutgers during the first two weeks of the season, the average dips to 139.6 yards per game, which would rank 100th (!) nationally.

The large holes that Weber and Dobbins ran through a season ago have closed up thanks to a combination of factors. Replacing the anchor of the line at left tackle and the best center in college football is one of them. But the bigger issue is the numbers disadvantage Ohio State has now that Barrett is no longer bulldozing his way through that offensive line.

There's a trade-off, of course.

Even with the struggles on the ground, Haskins has been remarkable as a first-year starter behind center as the Buckeyes currently boast the third-best passing attack in the country. If he continues on his current pace, the redshirt sophomore will break Germaine's single-season passing record against (looks at the schedule ominously) Michigan State in the tenth game of the season.

But can Ohio State win a Big Ten title and maintain its playoff aspirations with a ground game that's so ineffective? That's certainly something Meyer is addressing.

“We have two very good tailbacks and we’re making a concerted effort to put the ball in their hands with the run,” Meyer said this week.

Entire article: https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio...pionship-with-a-pass-first-run-second-offense

 

[jwinslow]

 

[Buckeye86]

What baffles me is the solution to Haskins not be able to run read option hasn’t been to incorporate normal run plays, it’s been to basically eliminate running the ball from the game plan (thanks partially to a good chunk of the “run” plays being RPOs and Haskins always choosing to throw it).

It feels like our reliance on RPOs is preventing us from playing physical and with emotion.

It seems like we treat all of our opponents like they are our equals, and we have to “take” what the defense “gives” us by out scheming everyone.

Unfortunately, by trying to play chess against everyone, it evens the playing field and negates Ohio State’s massive talent advantages as we’ve seen the last three weeks.

It feels like we are trying to out scheme everyone, when in 75% of the games each year, and the last three being incredibly glaring examples, we just need to keep things simple, stupid, and run a simplified playbook and just rely on better players to win the game.

The great thing about this strategy is, if it’s not working, then you can open things up again, because you actually are really good and really smart coaches who can make adjustments.

But the basis for those adjustments against Purdue should probably be a handful of basic (no read involved) run plays... and not 65 passes.

 

[Systems_id]

Think we can start worrying about the rushing attack now.

 

[1926Buckeyes]

Lack of any push up front from the OL and 0 meaningful evolution from a rushing QB to a pocket passer has turned a 2 headed RB monster into 50 yards a game and no consistency.

Most runs feel like they're placed in the gameplan just for the sake of saying you ran the ball. Ends up stalling drives more often than being a part of them. Create a running game that is part of the offense, not grafted onto it. I'm sick of hearing that it can't be done without a running QB. How many teams do it weekly without having a Barrett or a Tebow? This is another example of Meyer simply not being able to evolve the offense past the end of his nose.

And why are there 3-4 bad drops per game?

 

[jwinslow]

Think we can start worrying about the rushing attack now.

Field some competent defenders in run support and they win this game handily.

The rushing attack is just so uninspired, but there is the potential to fix it, especially if Bowen comes back. The lbs look like a video game where you guess the wrong direction and so EA Sports penalizes you and makes them run in the wrong direction for an outrageously long time before pursuing the ball.

 

[1926Buckeyes]

Field some competent defenders in run support and they win this game handily.

The rushing attack is just so uninspired, but there is the potential to fix it, especially if Bowen comes back. The lbs look like a video game where you guess the wrong direction and so EA Sports penalizes you and makes them run in the wrong direction for an outrageously long time before pursuing the ball.

So you're thinking the run game is more the OL than anything? That makes sense to me, I just wasn't sure if you thought there was more too it.

 

[jwinslow]

So you're thinking the run game is more the OL than anything? That makes sense to me, I just wasn't sure if you thought there was more too it.

I think Dwayne makes things more challenging, but I think the 2013 OL would have this offense resembling Bama 2018.