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2018 tOSU Offense Discussion

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Hstead said:
I am a HUGE Urban fan, want no other coach on our sidelines, however, I have one simple concept for you coach in short yardage.

The Caps are me screaming:

IF YOU WANT TO GET THE GODDAMN FIRST DOWN WHEN WE NEED ONE FUCKING YARD, HOW ABOUT NOT GOING SUPER DUPER HURRY UP AND RUNNING THE TAILBACK THROUGH THE FUCKING TWO HOLE LIKE YOU DO EVERY GODDAMN TIME YOU START RUSHING TO THE LOS?

Fuck. Anyone that has watched us understands we are running two hole when we rush to the damn line. Not three hole, not four hole, and not five hole, the FUCKING two hole. EVERY FUCKING TIME. How about some plays off of that bitch coach? Predictable much? As soon as we start rushing that shit you know exactly where the fuck the ball is going, and that includes whoever we are playing and all three of their LBs. Jesus Urban.
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Devils advocate for you; They converted, iirc, 4/5 3rd and shorts in the IU game. The one they didn't, the center missed a block on 2 consecutive plays.

Not being a coach, it seems to me the quick hitter into the 2 hole (#thingsIsaytomywife) is this offense's equivalent of the QB sneak. You are pretty much just asking 3 very large humans in the middle of the OL to not allow any penetration (#thingsmywifesaystome) and muscle you a yard. Nothings perfect but that strategy gives you some pretty good odds imo.
 
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Jaxbuck said:
Devils advocate for you; They converted, iirc, 4/5 3rd and shorts in the IU game. The one they didn't, the center missed a block on 2 consecutive plays.

Not being a coach, it seems to me the quick hitter into the 2 hole (#thingsIsaytomywife) is this offense's equivalent of the QB sneak. You are pretty much just asking 3 very large humans in the middle of the OL to not allow any penetration (#thingsmywifesaystome) and muscle you a yard. Nothings perfect but that strategy gives you some pretty good odds imo.
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The impression that I have (and it isn't more than that) is that Urban gets very stubborn about such things. He believes that, at least against certain teams, his guys ought to be able to do X, so he's going to run the play that asks them to do X until they bloody well get it right. Only problem is, some years the players can't do X, at least not until late in the year, whether they ought to be able to or not.

This year, we have an alternative that is effective to a level that is literally historic. If it's not working, forget it. We have another tool in the box that will get the job done. (The idea of working on things that need worked on when you have a huge lead this coming Saturday has been covered ad nauseum, but yeah, that's the time to work on X)
 
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DaddyBigBucks said:
The impression that I have (and it isn't more than that) is that Urban gets very stubborn about such things. He believes that, at least against certain teams, his guys ought to be able to do X, so he's going to run the play that asks them to do X until they bloody well get it right. Only problem is, some years the players can't do X, at least not until late in the year, whether they ought to be able to or not.

This year, we have an alternative that effective to a level that is literally historic. If it's not working, forget it. We have another tool in the box that will get the job done. (The idea of working on things that need worked on when you have a huge lead this coming Saturday has been covered ad nauseum, but yeah, that's the time to work on X)
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I'm with you. We started talking about it back in the spring, what do they do for that critical 3rd and 1 with no running QB?

"Problem", I use that word loosely, is that they are still pretty efficient at slamming it up in there and getting the yard. What i don't like is that hand off happens 7 yards deep in the backfield.

I would absolutely love to see them change the option part of that QB/RB mesh to Haskins keeping and popping a quick slant pass. One would think it would be wide open and an easy pitch and catch but if you somehow don't complete that, the second guessing (of yourself, forget the media and fans) would be hard to quantify in terms of risk.

To me, with no skin in the game, the math is pretty straight forward. What % of the time have you been converting those 3rd and 1's with the running approach? What % of the time does haskins complete a simple quick slant?

Go with the higher %
 
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Jaxbuck said:
Devils advocate for you; They converted, iirc, 4/5 3rd and shorts in the IU game. The one they didn't, the center missed a block on 2 consecutive plays.

Not being a coach, it seems to me the quick hitter into the 2 hole (#thingsIsaytomywife) is this offense's equivalent of the QB sneak. You are pretty much just asking 3 very large humans in the middle of the OL to not allow any penetration (#thingsmywifesaystome) and muscle you a yard. Nothings perfect but that strategy gives you some pretty good odds imo.
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Problem is it isn't a QB sneak though, takes much longer. I am thinking of the critical 4th down we missed. A couple of others were very close too. I just think we would convert at a higher percentage if we didn't rush rush rush and run the same exact play every single time. It is too easy to game plan for. I would rather see us either rush rush rush and have three different plays, which is doable, or not rush and take our time and call a variety including putting the ball in the air. Not be so damn predictable. Make it harder on the defense not super easy.
 
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Those of you who have been around as long as I have (or longer) might be surprised to learn that there are some statistics that even I cannot be bothered to look up.

For example:

Ohio State currently leads the B1G in pass completions with 165. Northwestern is in second place, trailing the Buckeyes by 27 completions (138).

Ohio State also has given up the fewest sack yards in the conference.

It is more work than even I want to do to figure out if anyone has ever led the B1G in both pass completions and in fewest sack yards allowed.

Whether or not anyone bothers to do so, and whether or not it has ever been done before, it is pretty damn impressive to drop back enough to lead the league in completions and to lead the league in fewest sack yards allowed in spite of it.

So... does short yardage need to get fixed? Sure. But this OL (combined with Dwayne's field vision and quick release) is doing some things incredibly well.

EDIT: (Ohio State leads the league in first downs by rush as well, so it's not like short yardage is a huge issue, but it may be the biggest issue this offense has)
 
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DaddyBigBucks said:
Those of you who have been around as long as I have (or longer) might be surprised to learn that there are some statistics that even I cannot be bothered to look up.

For example:

Ohio State currently leads the B1G in pass completions with 165. Northwestern is in second place, trailing the Buckeyes by 27 completions (138).

Ohio State also has given up the fewest sack yards in the conference.

It is more work than even I want to do to figure out if anyone has ever led the B1G in both pass completions and in fewest sack yards allowed.

Whether or not anyone bothers to do so, and whether or not it has ever been done before, it is pretty damn impressive to drop back enough to lead the league in completions and to lead the league in fewest sack yards allowed in spite of it.

So... does short yardage need to get fixed? Sure. But this OL (combined with Dwayne's field vision and quick release) is doing some things incredibly well.

EDIT: (Ohio State leads the league in first downs by rush as well, so it's not like short yardage is a huge issue, but it may be the biggest issue this offense has)
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Something interesting (because I don't have exact stats on 3rd and 3 or less)

OSU is 75th lowest in the country (out of 130) in 3rd downs faced per game at a scant 14
OSU is 17th in 3rd down conversions per game at 7

OSU faces 1.7 4th downs per game
OSU converts those at a 70% clip

They were stopped on a 3rd and 4th down by IU one time. They converted 3-4 others in the same game.

Perspective needs to be kept and as the stats show above, it's just not a systemic issue.
 
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scarletngray said:
DH is going to light it up this week against Minny. I also think this is the week we get our run game going.
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Didn't want to muck up Haskins thread but felt the need to make a point.

Dobbins is currently averaging 4.7YPC
Webbs is currently averaging 5.7 YPC

We currently have 882 yards rushing between the two. Keep in mind we are at the half way point of the season.
If that was one running back doing all the damage on pace for nearly 1800 yards, not a single soul here would be claiming that our running game needs to "get going".

To arrive at said point. The running game is fine. It is exactly what it needs to be - effective. We aren't relying solely on our backs to carry the offense ala Zeke' at times. Right now, if anything, the offense
is running (and humming) through Haskins and the ground attack is the great compliment to his passing that we require. This is the type of offensive output from the QB position we expected from Pryor most of his
career. Instead even throughout his junior year (2010) we were a team that based everything off hanging our hat on the running game. That doesn't appear to be the case right now. Sure, I have no doubt we could line up and pound the ball 40+ times a game. But the QB'ing we're getting this season allows us to open up things in a way we haven't had since 2006.

You know what his also helps with? Future QB recruiting. Want to land some elite passing prospects? Be a team that develops elite passers and sends a few to the NFL like Haskins will be doing eventually.
 
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Buckeneye said:
Didn't want to muck up Haskins thread but felt the need to make a point.

Dobbins is currently averaging 4.7YPC
Webbs is currently averaging 5.7 YPC

We currently have 882 yards rushing between the two. Keep in mind we are at the half way point of the season.
If that was one running back doing all the damage on pace for nearly 1800 yards, not a single soul here would be claiming that our running game needs to "get going".

To arrive at said point. The running game is fine. It is exactly what it needs to be - effective. We aren't relying solely on our backs to carry the offense ala Zeke' at times. Right now, if anything, the offense
is running (and humming) through Haskins and the ground attack is the great compliment to his passing that we require. This is the type of offensive output from the QB position we expected from Pryor most of his
career. Instead even throughout his junior year (2010) we were a team that based everything off hanging our hat on the running game. That doesn't appear to be the case right now. Sure, I have no doubt we could line up and pound the ball 40+ times a game. But the QB'ing we're getting this season allows us to open up things in a way we haven't had since 2006.

You know what his also helps with? Future QB recruiting. Want to land some elite passing prospects? Be a team that develops elite passers and sends a few to the NFL like Haskins will be doing eventually.
Click to expand...

It'd be nice to see their ypc at 6.0+ but I agree with most of what you're saying
 
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Buckeneye said:
Didn't want to muck up Haskins thread but felt the need to make a point.

Dobbins is currently averaging 4.7YPC
Webbs is currently averaging 5.7 YPC

We currently have 882 yards rushing between the two. Keep in mind we are at the half way point of the season.
If that was one running back doing all the damage on pace for nearly 1800 yards, not a single soul here would be claiming that our running game needs to "get going".

To arrive at said point. The running game is fine. It is exactly what it needs to be - effective. We aren't relying solely on our backs to carry the offense ala Zeke' at times. Right now, if anything, the offense
is running (and humming) through Haskins and the ground attack is the great compliment to his passing that we require. This is the type of offensive output from the QB position we expected from Pryor most of his
career. Instead even throughout his junior year (2010) we were a team that based everything off hanging our hat on the running game. That doesn't appear to be the case right now. Sure, I have no doubt we could line up and pound the ball 40+ times a game. But the QB'ing we're getting this season allows us to open up things in a way we haven't had since 2006.

You know what his also helps with? Future QB recruiting. Want to land some elite passing prospects? Be a team that develops elite passers and sends a few to the NFL like Haskins will be doing eventually.
Click to expand...

Great post.
 
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Buckeneye said:
Didn't want to muck up Haskins thread but felt the need to make a point.

Dobbins is currently averaging 4.7YPC
Webbs is currently averaging 5.7 YPC

We currently have 882 yards rushing between the two. Keep in mind we are at the half way point of the season.
If that was one running back doing all the damage on pace for nearly 1800 yards, not a single soul here would be claiming that our running game needs to "get going".

To arrive at said point. The running game is fine. It is exactly what it needs to be - effective. We aren't relying solely on our backs to carry the offense ala Zeke' at times. Right now, if anything, the offense
is running (and humming) through Haskins and the ground attack is the great compliment to his passing that we require. This is the type of offensive output from the QB position we expected from Pryor most of his
career. Instead even throughout his junior year (2010) we were a team that based everything off hanging our hat on the running game. That doesn't appear to be the case right now. Sure, I have no doubt we could line up and pound the ball 40+ times a game. But the QB'ing we're getting this season allows us to open up things in a way we haven't had since 2006.

You know what his also helps with? Future QB recruiting. Want to land some elite passing prospects? Be a team that develops elite passers and sends a few to the NFL like Haskins will be doing eventually.
Click to expand...
And all this with Weber not 100% healthy. Hopefully Weber(and Bosa) get healthy in November! Then watch out!
 
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