2018 tOSU Offense Discussion

[bukIpower]

Alright football heads- I get the numbers problem in the run game. I'm happy to trust Haskins accuracy and ball placement to continue terrorizing the quick screens and mesh routes against 1 on 1 coverage, it's just as good as a run really.

But, is there absolutely nothing that can be done in the run game? If there are numbers in the box, they almost have to be unbalanced somewhere (doubt we're seeing 4-4 stuff). My question/suggestion are counters and pulls that get lineman or a TE coming across to run away from the numbers. I almost wonder how McCall/scat back would do here. The QB Read/RB dive play is dead this year. The Bucks are not running straight up the middle for any success- hard to accept but I get it. I'm in love with this passing offense and not ready to see it go so soon anyway.

I'd just like some comfort in the Buckeye run offense should they need to slow a game down or win a game. Hopeful there's something that can be evolved to get some success.

The one thing I have yet to see which IMO would force teams to lighten the box would be to replace the TE with a WR.

Spread the field out with 4 WRs and if they don't put their nickle defense on we will have a substantial mismatch with a LB on one of our WRs. If they take a LB out and put a corner in it'll lighten the box.

So far Dwayne has torched teams throwing the ball and even so it hasn't gotten people to lighten the box.

IMO our formations are too tight and we doing line up wide enough out wide. Then the TE being in allows for heavier fronts to out number us.

With how good we have been throwing we should have seen some kind of residual benefit. Which just hasn't been the case.

 

[Bill Lucas]

So less blocking for the interior run game and pass protection is the answer?

 

[Jaxbuck]

So less blocking for the interior run game and pass protection is the answer?

From what I see, the answer is just the interior OL doing a better job of picking up stunts/blitzes/disguises.

Defensive teams are working overtime to confuse the blocking schemes to try and get to Haskins which has a spill over in the run game. Watch most of the negative run plays, the center/guard combo generally miss someone. Again, much better against the pass than the run which, for this season, is more important.

 

[pnuts34]

From what I see, the answer is just the interior OL doing a better job of picking up stunts/blitzes/disguises.

Defensive teams are working overtime to confuse the blocking schemes to try and get to Haskins which has a spill over in the run game. Watch most of the negative run plays, the center/guard combo generally miss someone. Again, much better against the pass than the run which, for this season, is more important.

Think some of this has to do with new starters at C and LG?

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

Everyone on this board who has commented on what they would do against this offense has said the same thing: put pressure on Haskins no matter what it takes. There have been no exceptions.

So should it be a surprise that every team the Buckeyes play has stacked the box and sold out to pressure Haskins, regardless of how it's worked out so far? What else are they going to do? If they back off they know he's going to shred them, so they pick the poison that at least has a chance of paying off for them. PSU almost had it pay off due to numerous drops by OSU wide-outs, but at the end of the night, it still wasn't enough.

So we can expect to see teams continue to stack the box and try to pressure Haskins. And we can expect to see the running game continue to suffer from facing all those guys in the box. And we can expect to see Haskins continue to shred teams that challenge him like that. In fact, it seems reasonable to expect that he'll get even better at it as he faces more of it.

The opponents' best bet is to hope that Urban & Co. get stubborn and try to force the running game (like they did a little bit yesterday). As we have seen, the way this offense is built, the opponents have very little choice. They'll probably keep bringing the same approach. If the Buckeyes have to keep beating them the same way, it won't bother me at all.

Now, the defense on the other hand...

 

[bukIpower]

So less blocking for the interior run game and pass protection is the answer?

Spreading a team out can help us identify mismatches and can help RBs see the field better.

The box is too congested and I'd like to see us make an effort to play with better spacing. Adding more blocking IMO isn't the way to go.

We go 6 deep at WR and tell me the box doesnt open up if we have Parris, Johnny, Mack and Mclaurin spreading the field.

If they want to keep the box stacked? Fine. Quick hitters galore. Then when they cheat out wide we hit them with a now lighter box.

Furthermore if they keep their base defense in a LB on one of our WRs is 7 every time. They know that and will put in their nickle package.

Would you rather run the ball vs a base defense or a nickle package?

Just my opinion but having a TE in actually hurts us.

As for the oline? They don't need any help in pass pro. They excel at it and if we did go 4 wide and they decide to bring 5-6 then they better pray they get home because someone is running free which Dwayne will find more often than not.

This will never happen because we love the TE but I'd at least like to see how it'd work out a few times

 

[Jaxbuck]

Everyone on this board who has commented on what they would do against this offense has said the same thing: put pressure on Haskins no matter what it takes. There have been no exceptions.

So should it be a surprise that every team the Buckeyes play has stacked the box and sold out to pressure Haskins, regardless of how it's worked out so far? What else are they going to do? If they back off they know he's going to shred them, so they pick the poison that at least has a chance of paying off for them. PSU almost had it pay off due to numerous drops by OSU wide-outs, but at the end of the night, it still wasn't enough.

So we can expect to see teams continue to stack the box and try to pressure Haskins. And we can expect to see the running game continue to suffer from facing all those guys in the box. And we can expect to see Haskins continue to shred teams that challenge him like that. In fact, it seems reasonable to expect that he'll get even better at it as he faces more of it.

The opponents' best bet is to hope that Urban & Co. get stubborn and try to force the running game (like they did a little bit yesterday). As we have seen, the way this offense is built, the opponents have very little choice. They'll probably keep bringing the same approach. If the Buckeyes have to keep beating them the same way, it won't bother me at all.

Now, the defense on the other hand...

 

[Bill Lucas]

Thanks for the info. It wasn't meant as criticism. I'm not a football X's and O's guy. I coached basketball. :cheers:

What about splitting the TE out? I'm thinking Ruckert.

 

[pnuts34]

Spreading a team out can help us identify mismatches and can help RBs see the field better.

The box is too congested and I'd like to see us make an effort to play with better spacing. Adding more blocking IMO isn't the way to go.

We go 6 deep at WR and tell me the box doesnt open up if we have Parris, Johnny, Mack and Mclaurin spreading the field.

If they want to keep the box stacked? Fine. Quick hitters galore. Then when they cheat out wide we hit them with a now lighter box.

Furthermore if they keep their base defense in a LB on one of our WRs is 7 every time. They know that and will put in their nickle package.

Would you rather run the ball vs a base defense or a nickle package?

Just my opinion but having a TE in actually hurts us.

As for the oline? They don't need any help in pass pro. They excel at it and if we did go 4 wide and they decide to bring 5-6 then they better pray they get home because someone is running free which Dwayne will find more often than not.

This will never happen because we love the TE but I'd at least like to see how it'd work out a few times

Isn't this essentially how Oregon had so much success under Chip Kelly? Spread the defense out, and run up the middle with guys like LaMichael James(I think that was him), etc

 

[cjmik_75]

On one of the TD passes(I think it was the Victor TD)Jordan let’s #51 free thru the A gap for the RG to pick up however the RG doesn’t even look that way leaving this dude a clean shot at DH...and inexplicably he just pulls up like he’s playing zone defense and let’s DH drop a dime to Victor.

This needs to get fixed ASAP any other competent DL and Haskins is getting sacked and probably hurt on that play.

The OL needs to step it up.

 

[kujirakira]

From the best X's and O's guy in the Buckeye media sphere

I keep waiting to see teams cover the pass and back the safeties off like they did with Cardale... but so far no luck.

They'd rather let Haskins shred them... and so he does.

Take what the defense gives ... we can move the ball either way

 

[Hstead]

4 WR doesn't always mean a mismatch, teams use 4 DBs ALWAYS. And a nickle d does not mean it is easier to run on if they put more hats in the box, which can easily be done. TE's often provide mismatches against the D because they are larger, taller, bigger, stronger, etc than damn near every single Safety they are ever going to be matched up on.

There are a lot of flawed assumptions and premises above.

You are damn near never ever going to have numbers in the run game. Why, because each team only gets 11 players and the QB is generally one of them with the exception of the wildcat et al. It is so much easier to line up defensively than it is gain a distinct advantage offensively. It is just a simple numbers game, why, again because of the QB unless he is a runner. It isn't as easy as some are trying to pretend it is. I can come up with a defensive alignment advantage with just about any offensive scenario you want to throw out there. It is just that simple, numbers. There is a reason these guys are getting paid millions. Except for Tim Beck, he didn't seem to understand where he shit last let alone how to design an offense.

 

[bukIpower]

4 WR doesn't always mean a mismatch, teams use 4 DBs ALWAYS. And a nickle d does not mean it is easier to run on if they put more hats in the box, which can easily be done. TE's often provide mismatches against the D because they are larger, taller, bigger, stronger, etc than damn near every single Safety they are ever going to be matched up on.

There are a lot of flawed assumptions and premises above.

You are damn near never ever going to have numbers in the run game. Why, because each team only gets 11 players and the QB is generally one of them with the exception of the wildcat et al. It is so much easier to line up defensively than it is gain a distinct advantage offensively. It is just a simple numbers game, why, again because of the QB unless he is a runner. It isn't as easy as some are trying to pretend it is. I can come up with a defensive alignment advantage with just about any offensive scenario you want to throw out there. It is just that simple, numbers. There is a reason these guys are getting paid millions. Except for Tim Beck, he didn't seem to understand where he shit last let alone how to design an offense.

Rather run into a base defense? Or a team in nickel? Or with four DB's on the field?

Would love to see the wide receivers tape wide splits, put four receivers on the field, and let the defense decide if they still want to stack the box.

Haskins is just so good and I really think if we put more receivers on the field it will either enhance Dwayne even more or it will help the running game.

I know it won't happen... but its fun to imagine!

Edited: also when you stretch your formation out I firmly believe it allows the QB to see where the pressure is going to come from. With our tight splits and tight bunch IMO it allows a defense to "hover" near the LOS and disguise their blitzes

 

[Hstead]

Rather run into a base defense? Or a team in nickel? Or with four DB's on the field?

Would love to see the wide receivers tape wide splits, put four receivers on the field, and let the defense decide if they still want to stack the box.

Haskins is just so good and I really think if we put more receivers on the field it will either enhance Dwayne even more or it will help the running game.

I know it won't happen... but its fun to imagine!

I can take a nickle and depending where the ball is placed on the field line up in a way better formation vs the run. Just because you trade a larger LB for another S type has ZERO to do with where that player lines up. I can put 9 in the box with a nickle package just as easily as I can put 6 in the box with my base personnel. What do you not get about that? It has nothing to do with personnel. It has everything to do with alignment.

Same as wether the offense has 5 WR's in the game a zero backs, it is still a matter of alignment. Just because one player is 4 inches shorter than another or faster has ZERO to do with how many guys I can or cannot put in the box. Where are you getting this stuff?

 

[bukIpower]

I can take a nickle and depending where the ball is placed on the field line up in a way better formation vs the run. Just because you trade a larger LB for another S type has ZERO to do with where that player lines up. I can put 9 in the box with a nickle package just as easily as I can put 6 in the box with my base personnel. What do you not get about that? It has nothing to do with personnel. It has everything to do with alignment.

Same as wether the offense has 5 WR's in the game a zero backs, it is still a matter of alignment. Just because one player is 4 inches shorter than another or faster has ZERO to do with how many guys I can or cannot put in the box. Where are you getting this stuff?

Which is why I'd like to see us go 4 wide with very wide splits. No need to do the whole "what don't you get" either this is all just fun and an opinion.

My whole thing is put 4 WRs and spread them out wide forcing them to go smaller and forcing them OUT OF THE BOX