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2018 tOSU Defense Discussion

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Jaxbuck said:
Someone understands Meyers philosophy and what happens when it goes wrong.

He leads with his offense. His defenses have given up 15-23 points a game for every season he's been here. If the thing you lead with falters, things get out of hand quick.

People screaming for consistency should think about this and hopefully it helps them deal with their anxiety. It doesn't happen often but when the other team can shut down Meyer's offense it ends up being an ass kicking because the defense gives out.

Using a baseball metaphor;

Tressel ball is like a crafty veteran pitcher who doesn't blow any one away and gets most of his outs via the groundball or the pop up because he disrupted the hitters timing. The downside to this style is that every at bat, every game is full out battle because you can't put people away very easy. Very small margin of error because if hitters can stay patient they can stay back on all those breaking balls and eventually they get to you.

Meyer's style is like a flame throwing power pitcher. He is going to take the surest path to victory and that is blowing it right by you. Big margin for error because only a few guys can turn around your fastball but when they do......it's a tape measure home run.

Nothing works all the time. It helps to understand the nature of the teams philosophy and what you can expect to happen when it goes well and when it doesn't go well.

I will take the the power pitcher philosophy 100 times out of 100. Meyer having the 3rd highest winning percentage in the history of college football is the data point I will point to support my argument.
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Dude. You are pretty damn solid in the analogy dept.

I think that’s it in a nutshell.

I’ll just add that I’ve personally partnered with and employed close friends and it’s a dicey proposition because you never can be brutally honest with them quite the same way you can with other people.

This staff feels like a weird mix of good old friends (Day, Schiano, etc), respected veteran coaches (Wilson, LJsr), rising stars (Day, maybe Grinch) and coaches somewhere in the middle just trying to make a name for themselves. The more I think about it that’s a weird spot for Urban and I just have a hunch there isn’t great chemistry among the staff right now.
 
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Hstead said:
Venabals has said he has over 30 variations of zones he deploys. Some are simple and just slightly different, but god dang it they are different. We play the same damn coverage 90% of the time. And WTF is this walking the LBs up in the damn LOS so much. Once in a blue moon on 3rd and long is one thing, but we do it too often in run situations and the LBs are Fucked before the snap. How can you play downhill when you have to step backwards first. Fuck that. How do you take on a blocker that out weighs you 70 lbs taking a fucking step back? Stupid shit.
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I think that has been the issue with our offense and defense for the past few years.

Arrogance.


We will lineup and run the same things we always do and in the same situations. We seem to believe that we can do what we always do because we are so talented. It's proven 9 out of 10 times that will work for UFM teams.

A good coaching staff which is now basically the entire Big Ten (which I believe is why we had our way with the big ten 2012-2014) will make us pay for relying on talent alone.

Imagine if this team with the talent that we have also was multiple and well prepared. In my opinion Urban needs to not have any "beliefs in system" and just allow a very successful coordinator to do what needs to be done.

You have got to be able to do various things in football now and the teams that don't will simply get out coached. Coaches like Dino, Kirk, Swinney and even like Fitzgerald will most likely continue to always give us good games. It's because they are well coached, play fundamental, can scheme us up and make us pay for our belief that we can just show up.

Which is why I think someone like Bud Foster if left alone would destroy here. If we left Kevin Wilson alone he's perfect for our offense too.
 
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TooTallMenardo said:
Running one or the other exclusively is never the answer and, more often than not, a recipe for disaster. In 2013, the Buckeyes had Brad Roby, Doran Grant, and I believe Armani Reeves were the main Nickel Corners. Roby was capable of shutting anyone down, week to week. Grant and Reeves probably would’ve handled man coverage pretty smoothly. That being said, a mix of both man (I’m not a fan of press man exclusively at all) and zone is best to confuse the offenses.

When the offense knows the defense will ONLY run man or press man, they’ll make you pay with slants and passes underneath all day. Mixing in zone every now and then should create enough confusion to cause some turnovers, so long as the guys running their zones are in position and not selling the zone prior to the snap. I think Okudah could be a monster in zone looks with his speed, and I also think Wade playing opposite Fuller could be huge in a zone look. Would take some of the pressure off the back 7 as a whole, and possibly confuse the offense enough to force a pass rush here and there (which has been non existent since teams have figured out all they need to do is run slants).
Click to expand...

I generally agree. I think the currrent defense was put in place to address offenses playing uptempo and adjusting based on defenses looks. If you say you are going to run cover 1 or cover 2 and man up underneath, you don’t need to swap sides based on offensive alignment. Ideally, this would prevent mismatches (their best WR on your 2nd best CB) and you don’t have to flip DEs. We were having trouble getting defensive play calls in and getting players set before the ball is snapped.

What I see failing this year is 1) fundamentals 2) LBs out of position and 3) teams exploiting mismatches.

1) fundamentals: tackling, beating blocks, angles have all been as bad as I can remember. Players not doing their job or thinking someone else will make the tackle. Watch Purdue tackle and take notes. A ball carrier can’t run if you take out his legs. Penalties. Ugh. If your lineman is making discipline penalties, you find someone who can play without the lapses, and if none of your players can (specifically offensive line) then the coach needs to look at himself.

2) as mentioned by others, the LB at the line or our blitzing Lb is immediately taken out of the play by the opposing offense. The pressure is getting to the QB because they either know where it is coming from or it’s a quick pass. We’re effectively playing a 5-2 defense with a 210 lb LB against slants and bubble screens. Sometimes the LB at the line has to bail into coverage, then run up to play the run. These LBs can’t do it.

3) Remember how the press man is supposed reduce mismatches? When you have substandard play from S, CB, and LBs, you get mismatches all over the field. For some reason, Ohio State refuses to get beat deep. I don’t know if that’s Meyer or Schiano, but they absolutely refuse to let any receiver get on top of the coverage. Sure, they’ve given up a FBS worst 90+ 80+ 70+ yard touchdowns, but they started off as runs, outs, or other short to medium passes. They continue to think Pryor is Malik Hooker and continue to press bail with the CBs, not allowing them to get their heads around. This was a problem the last time Taver Johnson was here too.
 
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WATCH: Greg Schiano, Ryan Day Discuss Changes On The Way

Schiano answered questions about the positioning of the linebackers, possible personnel changes, and the importance of getting some injured standouts back on the field.



Entire article: https://theozone.net/2018/10/watch-greg-schiano-ryan-day-discuss-changes-way/

PRESSER BULLETS: RYAN DAY, GREG SCHIANO DISCUSS HOW OHIO STATE IS WORKING TO IMPROVE DURING OFF WEEK

Schiano was the first coordinator to meet with the media. A sampling of what he had to say:
  • Schiano says the Buckeyes actually moved away from walking their linebackers up to the line of scrimmage, less than they have in previous weeks, despite James Laurinaitis and Jeff Brohm both pointing out that opposing offenses have taken advantage of that.
  • "There is no one thing," Schiano said of the defense's struggles, "it's a combination of them all."
  • "We had a tough night Saturday night, without a doubt," Schiano said, but he still believes the Buckeyes defense is getting better. "I think we're getting close, and just in the nick of time, because we're going to need to play really good defense down the stretch."
  • On having some inexperienced players on his defense: "At Ohio State, young is good, because that means old is playing in the NFL."
  • Schiano said the Buckeyes missed 20 tackles in the Purdue game. "And we haven't missed 20 tackles since we've been here." Said tackling has been an emphasis this week. Said he believes about half of those tackles occurred in the fourth quarter.
  • Schiano said the bye week has been valuable to work with the players on fundamentals and focusing on getting themselves better instead of focusing on another opponent.
  • Schiano said Ohio State's defense made a "critical error" on the 19-yard run by D.J. Knox that sparked Purdue's touchdown drive at the end of the first half.
  • On giving up three fourth-quarter touchdowns: "The fourth quarter really got away from us."
  • Schiano said he believe the Buckeyes need to improve both their scheme and execution to play better, and that would be the case even if their defense was playing well. Said there's no one singular thing they can fix to make everything better.
  • On the criticism Ohio State's linebackers have gotten: "I actually think the linebackers have played consistently."
  • Schiano said he has seen players make mistakes in the game that they haven't made in practice because of the "pressure of the game," but believe they are getting closer to taking what they're doing on the practice field into games.
  • If Chase Young can make his game more complete, "Watch out, because he's a special athlete," Schiano said. Schiano said he is seeing improvement from the sophomore defensive end.
  • Schiano said the Buckeyes don't plan to make any "wholesale" changes to their defensive scheme, but are looking for ways to put their players in better positions to make plays.
  • Schiano says the Buckeyes have played more zone coverage this year than they have in the past. "Can we play more of it? Sure we can," but says man coverage will continue to be Ohio State's priority.
Entire article: https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio...o-state-is-working-to-improve-during-off-week

Re: Schiano said the Buckeyes missed 20 tackles in the Purdue game......
smiley41.gif
 
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Upvote 0
ScriptOhio said:
WATCH: Greg Schiano, Ryan Day Discuss Changes On The Way

Schiano answered questions about the positioning of the linebackers, possible personnel changes, and the importance of getting some injured standouts back on the field.



Entire article: https://theozone.net/2018/10/watch-greg-schiano-ryan-day-discuss-changes-way/

PRESSER BULLETS: RYAN DAY, GREG SCHIANO DISCUSS HOW OHIO STATE IS WORKING TO IMPROVE DURING OFF WEEK

Schiano was the first coordinator to meet with the media. A sampling of what he had to say:
  • Schiano says the Buckeyes actually moved away from walking their linebackers up to the line of scrimmage, less than they have in previous weeks, despite James Laurinaitis and Jeff Brohm both pointing out that opposing offenses have taken advantage of that.
  • "There is no one thing," Schiano said of the defense's struggles, "it's a combination of them all."
  • "We had a tough night Saturday night, without a doubt," Schiano said, but he still believes the Buckeyes defense is getting better. "I think we're getting close, and just in the nick of time, because we're going to need to play really good defense down the stretch."
  • On having some inexperienced players on his defense: "At Ohio State, young is good, because that means old is playing in the NFL."
  • Schiano said the Buckeyes missed 20 tackles in the Purdue game. "And we haven't missed 20 tackles since we've been here." Said tackling has been an emphasis this week. Said he believes about half of those tackles occurred in the fourth quarter.
  • Schiano said the bye week has been valuable to work with the players on fundamentals and focusing on getting themselves better instead of focusing on another opponent.
  • Schiano said Ohio State's defense made a "critical error" on the 19-yard run by D.J. Knox that sparked Purdue's touchdown drive at the end of the first half.
  • On giving up three fourth-quarter touchdowns: "The fourth quarter really got away from us."
  • Schiano said he believe the Buckeyes need to improve both their scheme and execution to play better, and that would be the case even if their defense was playing well. Said there's no one singular thing they can fix to make everything better.
  • On the criticism Ohio State's linebackers have gotten: "I actually think the linebackers have played consistently."
  • Schiano said he has seen players make mistakes in the game that they haven't made in practice because of the "pressure of the game," but believe they are getting closer to taking what they're doing on the practice field into games.
  • If Chase Young can make his game more complete, "Watch out, because he's a special athlete," Schiano said. Schiano said he is seeing improvement from the sophomore defensive end.
  • Schiano said the Buckeyes don't plan to make any "wholesale" changes to their defensive scheme, but are looking for ways to put their players in better positions to make plays.
  • Schiano says the Buckeyes have played more zone coverage this year than they have in the past. "Can we play more of it? Sure we can," but says man coverage will continue to be Ohio State's priority.
Entire article: https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio...o-state-is-working-to-improve-during-off-week

Re: Schiano said the Buckeyes missed 20 tackles in the Purdue game......
smiley41.gif
Click to expand...

I couldn’t get 3 minutes into that vid before I couldn’t stand it anymore. I’ve not been a very big fan of Greg for a while now and that vid just makes it worse. He comes across pretty arrogant to me for a guy who has gotten his ass kicked and was out coached big time for the second year in a row by an inferior team. It’s like he has this attitude that he knows more than everyone else and he’d coach those Iowa and Purdue games exactly the same way if given a chance. For fucks sake man you didn’t just lose 2 years in a row you got your fucking teeth kicked in by lower quality players. YOU WERE OUTCOACHED. And your scheme sucks. I mean damn man. I want to hear more language like “it’s all on us as coaches” and I just don’t hear that enough.
 
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I truly do wish I had access to coaches tape much like what the NFL gives (for a price) That having been said, I'm sitting here doing paperwork, folding laundry and listening to music and this kind of popped into my head...

I've been on this board for 11 years, though I kind of lurked around the year before while I was on campus after a friend told me about this place. Anywho, in that time since 2006, I can only think of once when our defense showed
serious early season flaws then ended up playing better as the year went on and subsequently evolved into a great defense the next season. That would be the (late) 2008 - 2009 boys. We all remember (sans the booze) the beatdown in L.A. The coaches started making some adjustments, then we saw some of the younger guys like Williams, Thad and Hines start to get more playing time. As the season wore on they became better individually and collectively. Held Penn State to fewer points than USC did and took a Texas squad averaging 43ppg down to the final minute.

The 2009 group was good from the start. Same with 2010, 2012 (ish) 2014, 2015, 2016 & 2017. Sure those teams all had up and down moments and only one group went undefeated, but my point is that you didn't see question marks weeks after week to the point where you wondered if they would progress as the season went on. I wasn't ever there thinking "When will the light come on?". Recent history shows that it really doesn't happen if you haven't seen noticeable improvement by mid-season. The 2006 & 2007 units were exposed either in bowl games, by late season opponents or both in one case. So perhaps that is a bit of an anomaly. The 2005 unit was good from the word go. Next closest thing I could think to parallel 2008 would be the 2004 team.

But in the last 10 years only one team has made the second half improvements that helped to propel that group back near Silver Bullet status.

In short, I would always like to believe that these kids and coaches are capable of more. After all, it's not like we're bringing in bad athletes. I just have my doubts and tend to be realistic about what I see.
 
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MaxBuck said:
We don't have one defensive coordinator. We have two. I can't imagine that leads to clear, unambiguous planning and direction to the players.
Click to expand...

It can work if two are on the same page, one structures the game plan and one executes it on game day, but that is so extremely rare it's not worth it to see if it works. I'd love to see what Grinch can do, he did absolute wonders for the pass defense at WSU which is so incredibly tough because of how prolific their passing offense is, you just don't see balance like that.
 
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Buckeneye said:
I truly do wish I had access to coaches tape much like what the NFL gives (for a price) That having been said, I'm sitting here doing paperwork, folding laundry and listening to music and this kind of popped into my head...

I've been on this board for 11 years, though I kind of lurked around the year before while I was on campus after a friend told me about this place. Anywho, in that time since 2006, I can only think of once when our defense showed
serious early season flaws then ended up playing better as the year went on and subsequently evolved into a great defense the next season. That would be the (late) 2008 - 2009 boys. We all remember (sans the booze) the beatdown in L.A. The coaches started making some adjustments, then we saw some of the younger guys like Williams, Thad and Hines start to get more playing time. As the season wore on they became better individually and collectively. Held Penn State to fewer points than USC did and took a Texas squad averaging 43ppg down to the final minute.

The 2009 group was good from the start. Same with 2010, 2012 (ish) 2014, 2015, 2016 & 2017. Sure those teams all had up and down moments and only one group went undefeated, but my point is that you didn't see question marks weeks after week to the point where you wondered if they would progress as the season went on. I wasn't ever there thinking "When will the light come on?". Recent history shows that it really doesn't happen if you haven't seen noticeable improvement by mid-season. The 2006 & 2007 units were exposed either in bowl games, by late season opponents or both in one case. So perhaps that is a bit of an anomaly. The 2005 unit was good from the word go. Next closest thing I could think to parallel 2008 would be the 2004 team.

But in the last 10 years only one team has made the second half improvements that helped to propel that group back near Silver Bullet status.

In short, I would always like to believe that these kids and coaches are capable of more. After all, it's not like we're bringing in bad athletes. I just have my doubts and tend to be realistic about what I see.
Click to expand...
Yeah I'd be shocked if this years defense got a lot better. First thing is it would mean changing everything we do from single coverage with our safeties to having our LBs up at the LOS. Second I also don't believe our talent is what it has been in the past. There's no Malik Hookers, Denzel wards, Raekwons, Baker, or Vonn Bell walking through the door.

IMO none of these LBs would start over the 2016 group and certainly none of the secondary would play over the 2016 group.

So along with our Arrogance of not changing a thing and claiming "we are close" (despite having our poorest performance of the year 5 days ago) we also do not have the talent like we've had in the past.

God just think about 2016... 4 first rounders in that secondary. Hooker, Conley, Ward and Lattimore.

Well we cant ask our guys now to execute what was the game plan for that set of skill. We dont have that kind of skill anymore.
 
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bukIpower said:
Yeah I'd be shocked if this years defense got a lot better. First thing is it would mean changing everything we do from single coverage with our safeties to having our LBs up at the LOS. Second I also don't believe our talent is what it has been in the past. There's no Malik Hookers, Denzel wards, Raekwons, Baker, or Vonn Bell walking through the door.
Click to expand...

The coverage safeties provide is entirely dependent on their read in quarters. Of course you can play quarters a couple different ways. Man on and the safety is over top the #2 in 2x1 or 2x2 sets. If the #2 goes flat the LB takes him and the safety can help double the #1 - if #2 pesses vertical the safety takes him.

Another variation I saw was off coverage outside, eyes on the #2 - if he goes flat the corner bumps the #1, stays flat, and attacks the #2 while the safety picks up the #1. Though that is very suspect vs double moves and dependent on the corner getting a solid bump.

So just saying to "adjust" the scheme is to go completely against the coaches philosophy of forcing opposing QB's to make consistently accurate throws.

Fundamental things I don't like are the DB's alignment, quickness on opening hips, panicking when the ball is in the air and playing the catch as opposed to playing the ball itself. I want my secondary to generate turnovers and right now what we're doing isn't the ideal way to get those on the perimeter.
 
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Buckeneye said:
The coverage safeties provide is entirely dependent on their read in quarters. Of course you can play quarters a couple different ways. Man on and the safety is over top the #2 in 2x1 or 2x2 sets. If the #2 goes flat the LB takes him and the safety can help double the #1 - if #2 pesses vertical the safety takes him.

Another variation I saw was off coverage outside, eyes on the #2 - if he goes flat the corner bumps the #1, stays flat, and attacks the #2 while the safety picks up the #1. Though that is very suspect vs double moves and dependent on the corner getting a solid bump.

So just saying to "adjust" the scheme is to go completely against the coaches philosophy of forcing opposing QB's to make consistently accurate throws.

Fundamental things I don't like are the DB's alignment, quickness on opening hips, panicking when the ball is in the air and playing the catch as opposed to playing the ball itself. I want my secondary to generate turnovers and right now what we're doing isn't the ideal way to get those on the perimeter.
Click to expand...
We dont play quarters anymore
 
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