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buckeyesin07
Veni. Vidi. Vici.
I like his receiving skills, but I generally agree with you. The notion that he's a top 5 pick seems crazy to me.
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The Browns are screwed regardless(I can't belive I've spent this long talking about the dumpster fire team). They're going to select a QB with the 1 or 4 picks, but depending on a rookie QB when your team could only muster 1 win in 2 years is asking a bit much. None of the 5 QBs expected to go in the 1st round will immediately turn around the Browns, they will need multiple years and the GM needs to fill multiple holes. That's why I stated before that they should trade the 1 or 4 pick, for more picks in this draft and next year. Contrary to what I was told before, the OL still isn't very good, they have bad WR play, and bad DB play, oh yeah and still no RB play... So there's that... Barkley would do well if he went to the Colts at #3 though, but I see them taking Chubb, and the Giants will take a QB at #2 most likely. But Barkley could fit well in both NYG and Indy
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Buckeneye
I lead, you follow.
Going to need to hear some type of better argument that the Oline isn't good. With them healthy its pretty consensus top 10 unit.
Also what you're saying is because no QB will immediately turn this team around (which few do that anyway) we should forgo those top tier players and just continue to trade down? Had the Rams tried that Goff wouldn't
be their current QB and I'm sure they would be kicking themselves.
Also what you're saying is because no QB will immediately turn this team around (which few do that anyway) we should forgo those top tier players and just continue to trade down? Had the Rams tried that Goff wouldn't
be their current QB and I'm sure they would be kicking themselves.
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OhioState001
Tressel Loyalist
Shaquem Griffin (1 handed dude) just ran a 4.38 unofficial 40
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Right, that top 10 OL unit got them so many wins last year, and were so feared among NFL defenses...
And you're right, no team with multiple holes has traded down to get more players and strengthen more of the team before... Goff was also blessed with having Gurley already there, and also given a year to sit and watch(also getting Andrew Whitworth to anchor the LT position was probably the biggest of additions). The Browns don't have that luxury, they're not going to trot out Kizer again if they draft a QB at 1 or 4. But I'll gracefully bow out of this discussion on the Browns. I'm sure they'll pick their QB of the future and he'll lead them to the promised land with their stellar OL play...
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For which he's also partly responsible. I really suggest anyone talking about Barkley to go back to our game this year. All those series at the end of the game with McSorley getting mobbed over and over again... you'll see Barkley blocking thin air on at least half of them. He doesn't make a single block in those final series... he doesn't even try to block.
But I'm tired of bashing him, because he is a great playmaker. Just not the Generational Hall of Famer everyone makes him out to be. I'll even throw out 1 top-5 situation where he'd probably shine. If the Colts can really get Luck and Gore to come back, I could see that being a very dangerous offense to cope with. Another aerial weapon for Luck. The lightning to Gore's thunder. He might even learn something about mental toughness and running hard from the RB who actually will be on HoF ballots. Maybe getting sent to the bench for an aging vet whose more physical will bruise his ego enough to adapt. Or maybe it won't and he'll just be an amazing x-factor player.
PS Dak is the one beneffiting from Zeke, not the other way around. The first 3 games w/o Zeke proved that... less than 200yds passing, single digit scoring. When your offense falls off a cliff and you have to change the entire way it operates because 1 guy is out... that's indistuputably your centerpiece. It's not like his backups were awful either - Alfred Morris, and some guy
that beat out Darren McFadden. Any of those 4 would start in Cleveland.Having a RB like Zeke that fights for positive yardage and sells out w/o the ball in his hands takes so much pressure of a young QB. 3 Years of film show Barkley won't do that. That pressure has been put on McSorely. When the chips are down, Moorhead went to his QB to win games... not the All-Media Hype Machine that scores in the 1st half.
PPS Cleveland's OL is one of the few (only?) units on the team that doesn't need a total remake. The OLine can only block.. can't make the shitshow that's QB, RB, and WRs actually do anything productive with the ball. Nor call the plays for the retarded OC and HC. The only glaring issue there is securing a future at LT...
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I think a lot of that would have to do with whether Joe Thomas comes back as the player he was, or not. Frankly, I'm not terribly optimistic about that. He's an aging player as it is, just not sure how much he's got left in the tank.
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Buckeneye
I lead, you follow.
Right, that top 10 OL unit got them so many wins last year, and were so feared among NFL defenses...
Brilliant logic. I guess because the Ravens missed the playoffs their defense must be trash and isn't very good.
All those years Breesy threw for 5k and the Saints missed the playoffs must be because Drew isn't a HoF QB. No unit on this team gave them ANY wins. Yet you're bitching about arguably the strongest one?
And you're right, no team with multiple holes has traded down to get more players and strengthen more of the team before...
We've gone that route the last couple years only to fuck it up completely and miss out on premium players. Shall we make more of the same mistakes?
Goff was also blessed with having Gurley already there, and also given a year to sit and watch
What does the theoretical of passing on a franchise QB to address "other holes" have to do with Gurley? It's not like a signal caller doesn't need help. The Rams still have holes elsewhere, but my point is they saw what they believed to be a
Franchise worthy QB and didn't say "fuck it, we'll trade down and wait because... reasons".
(also getting Andrew Whitworth to anchor the LT position was probably the biggest of additions)
I won't disagree but the Rams are getting solid Oline play coupled with improved QB'ing from a young player. Unless you want to go back and count the amount of sacks on Kizer that simply can't be credited to the Oline. (Hint: It's a shit ton)
The Browns don't have that luxury, they're not going to trot out Kizer again if they draft a QB at 1 or 4. But I'll gracefully bow out of this discussion on the Browns. I'm sure they'll pick their QB of the future and he'll lead them to the promised land with their stellar OL play...
The Browns won't be trotting out their QB pick at 1 or 4 unless the veteran they sign falls so badly on his face. Also yes, Kizer being a starter (should that happen) over a rookie is very possible. With even a modicum of improvement from him and a commitment to the running game you could net a few wins this year.
Point being, it's an ecosystem. Having a HoF QB with a subpar line can hinder success and, as the Browns have seen this past season, having a quality line and piss poor QB will hold you back even more. But the Oline is about the only thing on this team worth of NFL inclusion.
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I think it's the generational label being thrown around, which fits on Peterson or Jackson.
I think it's highly debatable if Saquon will outpace Fournette, Zeke and Gurley for a 4 year stretch.
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buckeyesin07
Veni. Vidi. Vici.
Maybe not by directly naming the two and comparing them to one another, but on a daily basis on ESPN (my fault, I know), they call Barkley a once in a generation talent, the likes of which the League hasn't seen since Jim Brown. By implication, they're obviously saying Barkley's a better prospect than AP. Which, as you point out, is completely ridiculous. Barkley's a nice prospect, don't get me wrong. But in my view, he's no better a prospect than Zeke, Fournette, Gurley, and several other RBs the past few years that aren't immediately coming to mind.
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