2017 tOSU Offense Discussion

[sg86]

I don't think forcing the issue has anything to do with JT's problems, to be honest. Barrett himself and the offense as a whole benefited from his improvised runs that season and if you go back and reference any postgame conference where that happened a lot, all you hear is stuff about Urban wanting him to run less and needing to make sure he doesn't have as many carries, etc.

It's obvious at this point given how often he seems to bypass 7-10 yard rushing gains in lieu of failed out routes or whatnot that the skills and improvisational abilities that made Barrett what he was that season have been trained to go away. I think he's been strongly encouraged to avoid running on designed pass plays as much as possible and I think it's hurt their ability to gain yards, it's hurt the WRs in the sense that the secondary can avoid to play closer, it's hurt the playcalling by putting the team in position to have to take more of those chances.

At his best, Barrett made 2, maybe 3 reads, then immediately took off if nothing was there. Now, if nothing is there, he pumps the ball until something is, either ending up on his ass or throwing the ball out of bounds.

It appears to me that they either don't want him to run at all in those situations or they felt he was too quick to run and have overcorrected to the point that it's highly detrimental to the offense.

 

[bukIpower]

I don't think forcing the issue has anything to do with JT's problems, to be honest. Barrett himself and the offense as a whole benefited from his improvised runs that season and if you go back and reference any postgame conference where that happened a lot, all you hear is stuff about Urban wanting him to run less and needing to make sure he doesn't have as many carries, etc.

It's obvious at this point given how often he seems to bypass 7-10 yard rushing gains in lieu of failed out routes or whatnot that the skills and improvisational abilities that made Barrett what he was that season have been trained to go away. I think he's been strongly encouraged to avoid running on designed pass plays as much as possible and I think it's hurt their ability to gain yards, it's hurt the WRs in the sense that the secondary can avoid to play closer, it's hurt the playcalling by putting the team in position to have to take more of those chances.

At his best, Barrett made 2, maybe 3 reads, then immediately took off if nothing was there. Now, if nothing is there, he pumps the ball until something is, either ending up on his ass or throwing the ball out of bounds.

It appears to me that they either don't want him to run at all in those situations or they felt he was too quick to run and have overcorrected to the point that it's highly detrimental to the offense.

You are saying the same thing as me but just differently. We are trying to do things we aren't well versed at doing (forcing the issue) and aren't taking advantage of what we do best which is run the ball and play off that strength

 

[Jaxbuck]

I don't think forcing the issue has anything to do with JT's problems, to be honest. Barrett himself and the offense as a whole benefited from his improvised runs that season and if you go back and reference any postgame conference where that happened a lot, all you hear is stuff about Urban wanting him to run less and needing to make sure he doesn't have as many carries, etc.

It's obvious at this point given how often he seems to bypass 7-10 yard rushing gains in lieu of failed out routes or whatnot that the skills and improvisational abilities that made Barrett what he was that season have been trained to go away. I think he's been strongly encouraged to avoid running on designed pass plays as much as possible and I think it's hurt their ability to gain yards, it's hurt the WRs in the sense that the secondary can avoid to play closer, it's hurt the playcalling by putting the team in position to have to take more of those chances.

At his best, Barrett made 2, maybe 3 reads, then immediately took off if nothing was there. Now, if nothing is there, he pumps the ball until something is, either ending up on his ass or throwing the ball out of bounds.

It appears to me that they either don't want him to run at all in those situations or they felt he was too quick to run and have overcorrected to the point that it's highly detrimental to the offense.

I keep coming back to a baseball analogy; Good young hitter comes up to MLB and rakes his rookie year, then he falls off a cliff never to be heard from again and people wonder "what went wrong?"

The league made adjustments and the hitter in question did not or could not make his adjustments to their adjustments.

JT Barrett has as well defined "book" out on him and the Meyer offense as any CFB QB could have. Defensive coordinators have made their adjustments, our offense as a group have not made any adjustments to those adjustments.

 

[zincfinger]

I keep coming back to a baseball analogy; Good young hitter comes up to MLB and rakes his rookie year, then he falls off a cliff never to be heard from again and people wonder "what went wrong?"

The league made adjustments and the hitter in question did not or could not make his adjustments to their adjustments.

JT Barrett has as well defined "book" out on him and the Meyer offense as any CFB QB could have. Defensive coordinators have made their adjustments, our offense as a group have not made any adjustments to those adjustments.

Bullshit, Kevin Maas rules!

 

[Jake]

 

[bukIpower]

Haha this is going to be a great ending I can tell...

Everyone who defends JT says "but he's a great leader" they never comment how he is skill wise. That's exactly why WRs like Philly Brown, Michael Thomas, Braxton Miller, Noah Brown, Jalin Marshall and Devin Smith all are playing NFL football right? Because they suck so bad they couldn't cut it here so they went ahead and made the NFL anyways.

There will always be someone open... It's up to the QB to find him. We had Michael Thomas, Braxton Miller, Jalin Marshall, Dontre Thomas, Nick Vanette, and had the threat of Zeke running the ball and JT still couldn't throw the ball.

Also Billy Price fighting for JT "leadership, we've been through a lot together, and he's my guy"...

Ok Billy but that doesn't cure the offense. That's my guy? Who the hell cares because if Haskin was the starter for 4 years then he'd be your guy

 

[AKAK]

So.

Reading this thread I've discovered the following.

1. We're not good at stretching the field vertically
2. We don't often stretch it horizontally.
3. When the inside zone read (or pick your inside run) works, we mysteriously stop using it.

Seems like we don't really run a [power] spread anymore.

Maybe we should do that?

 

[OH10]

I have a feeling this thread will die down after Saturday for a while. Then....

... pick right back up after Penn State.

 

[Jaxbuck]

So.

Reading this thread I've discovered the following.

1. We're not good at stretching the field vertically
2. We don't often stretch it horizontally.
3. When the inside zone read (or pick your inside run) works, we mysteriously stop using it.

Seems like we don't really run a [power] spread anymore.

Maybe we should do that?

4. We need some fairy dust
5. Twitter is really not one of mankind's better achievements

 

[buckeyebri]

4. We need some fairy dust
5. Twitter is really not one of mankind's better achievements

6. We apparently don't have TEs
7. Stupid is as stupid does

 

[Systems_id]

So.

Reading this thread I've discovered the following.

1. We're not good at stretching the field vertically
2. We don't often stretch it horizontally.
3. When the inside zone read (or pick your inside run) works, we mysteriously stop using it.

Seems like we don't really run a [power] spread anymore.

Maybe we should do that?

I think these two points are Meyer trying to address what happened last year. I've noticed we don't do a lot horizontally anymore after watching Warriner force feed Samuel the ball last year during the Clemson game with those awful swing passes. The majority of the playbook seems more vertical. The problem is we're not good at consistently executing the vertical. I'm probably way off base because I know jack shit about play calling but I'd speculate that what we've seen the past two games offensively is Meyer trying to get the team ready to face the likes of Bama and Clemson. Our ability to stretch the field vertically as well as horizontally as how we were able to win the Natty. Not being able to do both is why we got our faces caved in by Clemson. It kind of seems like Urban is trying to call plays for a game that doesn't exist yet. Again though I could be, and probably am, way off base.

 

[inliner311]

I think these two points are Meyer trying to address what happened last year. I've noticed we don't do a lot horizontally anymore after watching Warriner force [Zeke] Samuel the ball last year during the Clemson game with those awful swing passes. The majority of the playbook seems more vertical. The problem is we're not good at consistently executing the vertical. I'm probably way off base because I know jack [Mark May] about play calling but I'd speculate that what we've seen the past two games offensively is Meyer trying to get the team ready to face the likes of Bama and Clemson. Our ability to stretch the field vertically as well as horizontally as how we were able to win the Natty. Not being able to do both is why we got our faces caved in by Clemson. It kind of seems like Urban is trying to call plays for a game that doesn't exist yet. Again though I could be, and probably am, way off base.

I think the horizontal threat works hand in hand with the vertical threat. Past teams has players who were both threats in the run game and a vertical threat. I think the hybrid position is prime example of how this has changed. Paris Campbell and KJ Hill are WR playing the hybrid position, when most effective the hybrid position was a converted RB. I dont remember the hybrid being use to run the ball lately. I always though McCall was the next hybrid and we have yet to see him.

JT has problems making plays with his arm the further he goes into his progressions. Getting the ball out of his hands quickly to players that stretch the field horizontal will eventually help the vertical game. JT really needs timing plays for his vertical throws, as routes break down JT can't make the timing adjustment in this throws. The more worried defenses are about us running the ball, screens, jet sweeps, or throwing quick passes, the timing will get disrupted less on the vertical routes and open them up.

 

[AKAK]

I think these two points are Meyer trying to address what happened last year. I've noticed we don't do a lot horizontally anymore after watching Warriner force [Zeke] Samuel the ball last year during the Clemson game with those awful swing passes. The majority of the playbook seems more vertical. The problem is we're not good at consistently executing the vertical. I'm probably way off base because I know jack [Mark May] about play calling but I'd speculate that what we've seen the past two games offensively is Meyer trying to get the team ready to face the likes of Bama and Clemson. Our ability to stretch the field vertically as well as horizontally as how we were able to win the Natty. Not being able to do both is why we got our faces caved in by Clemson. It kind of seems like Urban is trying to call plays for a game that doesn't exist yet. Again though I could be, and probably am, way off base.

I dunno, maybe Urban needs to watch tape of the 2007 BCS NC game. I can't imagine I'd take Chris Leak over JT Barrett. Maybe I would, I don't know.

The point was, you have to, in my mind be able to show the threat of all 3, so so you can do a couple very well, or any as the situation dictates. I for one, wasn't all that thrilled about being a spread option team... that's not to say I doubted its effectiveness, I just don't really like the style... let's say in an Oregon kind of incarnation. Having said all that someone mentioned the lack of jet sweeps, etc... well, I hate those... but, you have to run them and hit them once in a while. And you have to throw reciever screens (Emphasis here, especially if you're not using your WR's as your primary recieving targets, you need plays like that to get them touches, widen the field and keep the other WR's involved in the game as blockers, IMHO)... then once you've done that the defense is going to have to get wide and shallow... etc...

Anyway, quick note on Warriner. Pretty random, and I can't get into specifics but the relationship between Warriner and Meyer was beyond repair around the middle of last season and had been rocky for a good while, and apparently it was very personal in nature, by the end. At any rate for anyone that was wondering why he'd punch out to take a demotion, there was no staying from either's perspective.

 

[MSURacerDT55]

I know its already been said a few times probably, but Zack Smith deserves his fair share of blame. Since Devin Smith left, his group has been trash.

Also in a kinda related but unrelated, what the hell happened to Eric Glover-Williams?

 

[Systems_id]

I dunno, maybe Urban needs to watch tape of the 2007 BCS NC game. I can't imagine I'd take Chris Leak over JT Barrett. Maybe I would, I don't know.

The point was, you have to, in my mind be able to show the threat of all 3, so so you can do a couple very well, or any as the situation dictates. I for one, wasn't all that thrilled about being a spread option team... that's not to say I doubted its effectiveness, I just don't really like the style... let's say in an Oregon kind of incarnation. Having said all that someone mentioned the lack of jet sweeps, etc... well, I hate those... but, you have to run them and hit them once in a while. And you have to throw reciever screens (Emphasis here, especially if you're not using your WR's as your primary recieving targets, you need plays like that to get them touches, widen the field and keep the other WR's involved in the game as blockers, IMHO)... then once you've done that the defense is going to have to get wide and shallow... etc...

Anyway, quick note on Warriner. Pretty random, and I can't get into specifics but the relationship between Warriner and Meyer was beyond repair around the middle of last season and had been rocky for a good while, and apparently it was very personal in nature, by the end. At any rate for anyone that was wondering why he'd punch out to take a demotion, there was no staying from either's perspective.

Well the 2007 playbook only works when your CBs repeatedly give the WRs a 10 yard cushion and AFHGLGHGEUGEGHEHAGEW. Sorry. Memories of that game cause my brain to momentarily short circuit.

I agree with you 100%. I was just making the observation that it felt like Meyer was emphasizing the vertical game in response to what happened last year.

Interesting info regarding Warriner and Meyer. Would love to know what happened.