2015 B1G Football Discussion

[Buckeye Maniac]

There are only two programs in the Big Ten that are all but guaranteed to be successful across long stretches of history. Ohio State and Michigan. Facilities, income, alum and booster programs and established winning traditions are more than likely to keep that in place. Two more programs, Penn State and Nebraska would seem to be capable of joining the top rung of the conference. Wisconsin, Michigan State, Iowa and Minnesota -as others here have noted- will go up and down.

Last game of the year does not make The Game special. It's the long term quality of the two teams. You can't set up a schedule that eliminates the possibility of two teams having to play each other twice, or even twice in a row, in a CCG set up. But you can look at the long term records of all the teams and realize that Ohio State and Michigan have the most likely chance of being the two best teams in the conference. Putting them in the same division guarantees that the CCG will frequently not be a true CCG.

And it would literally be the worst possible outcome to play them twice in a season. I don't give a shit if the West team is 6-6 entering the CCG, it's better than playing scUM twice.

 

[MD Buckeye]

11W - TAYLOR DECKER, JOSHUA PERRY, AND ADOLPHUS WASHINGTON NAMED TO OHIO STATE'S BIG TEN MEDIA DAYS CONTINGENT

 

[jwinslow]

There are only two programs in the Big Ten that are all but guaranteed to be successful across long stretches of history. Ohio State and Michigan. Facilities, income, alum and booster programs and established winning traditions are more than likely to keep that in place. Two more programs, Penn State and Nebraska would seem to be capable of joining the top rung of the conference. Wisconsin, Michigan State, Iowa and Minnesota -as others here have noted- will go up and down.

Last game of the year does not make The Game special. It's the long term quality of the two teams. You can't set up a schedule that eliminates the possibility of two teams having to play each other twice, or even twice in a row, in a CCG set up. But you can look at the long term records of all the teams and realize that Ohio State and Michigan have the most likely chance of being the two best teams in the conference. Putting them in the same division guarantees that the CCG will frequently not be a true CCG.

Of course you can. It's incredibly short sighted and backwards to sacrifice the stakes of singular, annual clashes with Michigan (or Michigan State lately) just to posture for the infrequent hypothetical matchup in the CCG.

Predicting football programs is a very tricky business. Sacrificing great annual matchups to inflate hypothetical CCGs is trading known greatness for infrequent matchups that may rarely or never happen.

Harbaugh should restore them to a powerhouse but we can't bet on that, especially since the NFL will come calling if he does.

Remember how easy Michigan supposedly had it when they were put in the opposite division from OSU? How many CCGs did they make?
Remember how many times Michigan failed to play good let alone league title contending football in the past decade?
Remember how every single person on the planet was dead wrong about how Wisconsin OSU would play out in the CCG?

Who says UM in a CCG will be any better than playing Wisconsin, Nebraska or whomever they add via expansion? Especially if they reduce the stakes and challenge our sanity by playing "The Game" twice?


Right now, UM stands in OSU's way every year, and despite being historically awful, they've given OSU a dogfight most years. 14, 13, 11 (loss), 09 were not pretty for OSU. 12, 08 & 07 were a lot closer than they should have been for awhile. Now they have a good to great coach and new life. I'm not remotely interested in posturing for a postseason rematch (let alone the unthinkable, not playing in the regular season) in order to gamble on a postseason-averse program making a postseason matchup supposedly better.

Thankfully sparty switched back to this division so they can be another annual great game. Sparty may take a step back this fall but still provide a great challenge for OSU as a regular season opponent. That same record might not buy them a trip to Indy.

Sparty won in 2011 and nearly ruined 2012. OSU skipped them in 2013 and made the CCG as a result (where they lost to them). Again Sparty was the playoff gatekeeper in 2014 and they should remain that in 2015.

 

[HorseshoeFetish]

And it would literally be the worst possible outcome to play them twice in a season. I don't give a [Mark May] if the West team is 6-6 entering the CCG, it's better than playing scUM twice.

Careful what you wish for. Have you seen the Wisconsin schedule for 2016? They could possibly go 2-4 in their first 6 games, including losses to our BUCKEYS, MSU, and scUM. Now that's just terrible scheduling courtesy of the BIG. What makes it even worse is that we not only play the Badgers in 2016, we also play Nebraska and Northwestern. Now that's some silly shit IMO.

Scheduling..the BIG truly sucks at it. I mean just take a look at the BAMA schedule for 2019 (kidding, there isn't one). In fact they barely have a schedule for 2017 because the SEC will wait to see how they can create a match-up between ranked teams to showcase their conference. The BIG meanwhile has scheduled out through 2019 with what seems like zero wiggle room. With no regards for what teams may rise or fall over that time. How on earth does a conference do that to themselves? Let alone one with it's own network. It's like they are hoping for decent match-ups, because we know all the marquis ones will be on another network anyway.

 

[Buckeye Maniac]

Careful what you wish for. Have you seen the Wisconsin schedule for 2016? They could possibly go 2-4 in their first 6 games, including losses to our BUCKEYS, MSU, and scUM. Now that's just terrible scheduling courtesy of the BIG. What makes it even worse is that we not only play the Badgers in 2016, we also play Nebraska and Northwestern. Now that's some silly [Mark May] IMO.

Scheduling..the BIG truly sucks at it. I mean just take a look at the BAMA schedule for 2019 (kidding, there isn't one). In fact they barely have a schedule for 2017 because the SEC will wait to see how they can create a match-up between ranked teams to showcase their conference. The BIG meanwhile has scheduled out through 2019 with what seems like zero wiggle room. With no regards for what teams may rise or fall over that time. How on earth does a conference do that to themselves? Let alone one with it's own network. It's like they are hoping for decent match-ups, because we know all the marquis ones will be on another network anyway.

I wasn't talking about the horrific scheduling of the Big Ten at all. I completely agree that it's trash. I was only talking about the disgusting possibility of playing scUM twice in a season.

 

[HorseshoeFetish]

I wasn't talking about the horrific scheduling of the Big Ten at all. I completely agree that it's trash. I was only talking about the disgusting possibility of playing scUM twice in a season.

I hear ya. I guess Id just rather take a chance to beat them twice a year than to face a 6-6 or a 7-5 west division foe that probably got anal raped by a SEC team early in the season.

EDIT: Obviously my opinion can change every other decade.

 

[kujirakira]

I voiced concerns about divisional imbalance when the realignment was announced, and I believe it's come to fruition. The gap is exacerbated at the moment due to Michigan State's very rapid rise coinciding with downturns at both Nebraska and Iowa.

As I see it, the success of schools like Wisconsin and Michigan State are not at all set in stone and largely depend on singular coaches and administrations. 10 years ago, MSU was mediocre. In 10 years, they might be again. Same goes for Wisconsin, Iowa, etc.

The West NEEDS Nebraska - and to a lesser extent Iowa - to return to prominence. It cannot just be Wisconsin.

I disagree on this point.
Wisconsin has always been an above-average team. Through multiple coaches and administrations. They haven't broke any barriers (how many Rose Bowls did they recently go to and not win a single one?), and they haven't fallen off either.
MSU's rise would be the equivalent of a Northwestern making a sustained push into the top10 (including major bowl wins). Northwestern has had a few mini revivals (recently taking advantage of Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State all sucking around 2011)... but overall remain firmly in the bottom-feeder category. MSU is still a bottom feeder without Dantonio. And they'll probably go back to being a bottom feeder if he ever leaves.
Wisconsin's formula works so long as the coach doesn't try to make wholesale changes. And to this, I'd point out Minnesota -- which for my lifetime has basically been Wisconsin Jr. When they've been above-average, it's using the same kind of ground game as Wiscy... Mason had success with Maroney and others at the same time Alvarez was doing it next door. When they fired Mason, they tried a lot of crap that didn't work... Kill has taken them right back to that fundamental hard-nosed running and blue-collar hard-nosed defense, and the results show.

Anyway, I don't have a problem with the alignment. We've basically shed all the bottom-feeder dross off onto the West Division. With the exceptions of Nebraska and Wisconsin, who should make for another decent top-25 matchup for the East champion to build their resume.
Nebraska should be ashamed... if they had any desire, the division is there for the taking. Just like the BXII North was. Instead they're getting demolished almost every year by a team that lost to a mediocre LSU because yips.

 

[jlb1705]

The prime directive is to keep M*ch*g*n's collective neck under our collective boot. That is best accomplished from within the same division.

 

[Saw31]

The prime directive is to keep M*ch*g*n's collective neck under our collective boot. That is best accomplished from within the same division.

Amen.

 

[Jaxbuck]

The prime directive is to keep M*ch*g*n's collective neck under our collective boot. That is best accomplished from within the same division.

 

[Dryden]

That jlb1705 is good.

Yeah, good and terrible.

 

[HorseshoeFetish]

There are only two programs in the Big Ten that are all but guaranteed to be successful across long stretches of history. Ohio State and Michigan.

With the money available today for BIG conference members I think it comes down to who is willing to make a real commitment to their football program. As I see it right now there are 4 teams in the East that have, and will continue to make that commitment. In the West there might be 3, and Nebraska is really the only one with the tradition to rival those in the East. Wisconsin has maintained a pretty good program but has not made that next step in being a national power.

I think my biggest concern would be what happens if Maryland and Rutgers take this new found money and become the Baylor or TCU of the BIG? Or even an Oregon type of thing with Maryland and Under Armour? Talk about an imbalance between the divisions. I look at Illinois, Iowa, and especially Purdue and wonder wtf are they doing with their share of the money? I'm not saying a school needs to dump all of their money into football, but show a pulse at least. I guess I can include Indiana with those schools, but they seem like they want to establish something down there.

 

[cincibuck]

Maryland put a great deal of effort into upgrading their academic image over the last 15 years. Rutgers has always had a good rep among public universities. Baylor and TCU trail far behind UT, aTm, and Rice just within their state. I'm guessing that the Big Ten schools are not going to go back on their rep, but I do see them putting more effort into being competitive, especially in basketball where their proximity to talent will be a great asset.

 

[HorseshoeFetish]

Maryland put a great deal of effort into upgrading their academic image over the last 15 years. Rutgers has always had a good rep among public universities. Baylor and TCU trail far behind UT, aTm, and Rice just within their state. I'm guessing that the Big Ten schools are not going to go back on their rep, but I do see them putting more effort into being competitive, especially in basketball where their proximity to talent will be a great asset.

Okay but I'm really kinda talking from a foosball perspective. I'm not even saying Baylor or TCU are as deserving of the accolades they get now. They might be okay tho. I mean I know one of them can beat Wisconsin. If either school, Maryland or Rutgers puts the effort into their program then it will make the East even tougher. They both have some very fertile recruiting territory. The right coach and system could really elevate either program.

 

[OSUK]

If we are trying to have the best conference in football, I like where we are heading. I can see the matchups from top to bottom favoring the B1G over the SEC - if some programs step up. Comparing the SEC West and the B1G East: Ohio State > Bama, MSU > Auburn, scUM > LSU, and PSU > MSU/Ole Miss/TA&M/Arkansas. We have issues on the west side of our division, and need this in relation to the SEC East: Wisky > Georgia, Nebraska > Missouri, Minnesota/Iowa > Tennessee/Florida.