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- Thread starter bigdog3300
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Yeah I'm talking about Luck. He gets talked about like he's the second coming when his performance has been average in every way. Maybe he will catch up to his hype, maybe he won't. Right now though he's a QB who has a middle-of-the-pack completion percentage, a below-average yards per completion and a regular season passer rating lower than Andy Dalton's. Despite that he often gets talked about in the same breath as the league' passers.
Also, I don't know what RGIII or Weeden have to do with the point I was making. You have to be highly regarded to be overrated, and the past year has seen the RGIII bubble burst while nobody besides Mike Holmgren ever thought Weeden was worth a damn.
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Buckeneye
I lead, you follow.
Dalton has AJ Green, Sanu, 2 decent TE's, a home run threat RB and a chain mover. Oh, plus a pretty decent Oline.
What does Luck have? TY Hilton and Trent Richardson...? Never mind the Oline. He might be behind one of the worst in the NFL.
Despite that the kid has preformed very well. Is he setting the world on fire? No. But how can anyone be so blind to not see the talent...?? The kid can be good, scary good. The weapons around him need some work.
Hell, Mannings Oline was never this bad.
What does Luck have? TY Hilton and Trent Richardson...? Never mind the Oline. He might be behind one of the worst in the NFL.
Despite that the kid has preformed very well. Is he setting the world on fire? No. But how can anyone be so blind to not see the talent...?? The kid can be good, scary good. The weapons around him need some work.
Hell, Mannings Oline was never this bad.
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If he's truly "one of the 3 best QBs in the NFL" (paraphrased), he'd make the people around him look a lot better than they are.
Instead he, and they, look as good as they really are -- which is above average at best in his case.
So are the likes of Romo, Cutler, and Rivers on their days... the problem is; they don't do it consistently, and they don't do it in the playoffs.
Instead he, and they, look as good as they really are -- which is above average at best in his case.
So are the likes of Romo, Cutler, and Rivers on their days... the problem is; they don't do it consistently, and they don't do it in the playoffs.
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You're kind of reinforcing my point. Of course he has great potential. I'm not discounting that. He's being talked about (in my IMO) like it has already been fulfilled though. That, to me, makes him overrated at the moment.
On top of that, if he needs help like your comparisons to surrounding talent seems to suggest, it's likely not on the way. As other posters pointed out earlier in the thread, they have a ton of money tied up in a handful of guys and hardly any draft picks.
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I think Luck has done a great job of making those around him better. Who ever heard of DaRick Rodgers or Griff Whalen before Luck was throwing to them. Sorry he can't catch the ball to when he throws it. I have watched numerous receivers drop passes all season that have hit them in the hands, Heyward-Bey is a joke. Maybe you missed some of the records Luck set in his rookie season or the fact that he has better numbers than the sure fire Hall of Famer Peyton in his first two seasons.
What do RGIII and Weeden have to do with it. Hmmm, maybe the fact that RGIII has consistently been touted as the second coming as much if not more than Luck and has done jack shit to deserve it, other than getting a coach fired. Weeden, just an example of one of may first round QBs who have not lived up to the expectations that surround the pick. I bet San Diego is just flipping thrilled that they got rid of breeze for Rivers, who was greatly hyped. The point is many QBs are greatly hyped by the media as the next coming. Dan Marino has how many SB rings? I guess I don't know why you think Luck is so over hyped compared to any other QB in the NFL.
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I've already presented a stats-based argument for my position, but I'll expand it because this is fun. You've talked out of both sides of your mouth, saying that his supporting cast isn't good enough, but that he makes his supporting cast better. His supporting cast is holding him back, but he's on a better pace than Petyon Manning. Which one is it?
The idea that Luck is ahead of Manning at this point in his career is a total myth. People are seeing what they want to see so far, and not looking closely enough at his actual production. Per Football Reference, in his second season, Peyton Manning had more yards, more touchdowns, a higher completion percentage and higher yards-per-attempt - all with fewer pass attempts than Luck had. The only significant stat I saw where Luck was ahead in his second season was INTs.
The league has changed in the past several years though. Passing stats have gone up across the league - quarterbacks and receivers have benefited from rule changes that make the game less difficult for them. With that in mind it's important to compare these two players by how they did compared to their peers. This is where it gets most interesting...
Peyton Manning 2nd season league ranks:
Yards - 3rd
Touchdowns - 3rd
Completion percentage - 2nd
Yards per attempt - 3rd
Andrew Luck 2nd season league ranks:
Yards - 3rd
Touchdowns - 3rd
Completion percentage - 2nd
Yards per attempt - 3rd
Yards - 13th
Touchdowns - 15th
Completion percentage - 23rd
Yards per attmpt - 27th
Touchdowns - 15th
Completion percentage - 23rd
Yards per attmpt - 27th
Now let's move on and talk schedule too. Manning produced a better regular season record that year than Luck did this season against tougher competition. The AFC East was the toughest division in the NFL that year with all five teams winning eight games or more. Meanwhile this year's AFC South was a joke - easily the worst division in the league and the only one with three teams below .500. Andrew Luck has arguably had it easier, yet has been behind Manning in terms raw stats and relative to his peers.
As for the playoff win, nevermind for a moment that it was an epic chokejob by the Chiefs. Andrew Luck lost in the same round Peyton Manning did in his second season. The reason Manning didn't have a playoff win under his belt at that point was because he led his team to a first-round bye. He lost to the Titans, who went on to be about a yard short of winning the Super Bowl that year.
Now tell me, who is ahead of whom? Who is great and who is about league-average? The very idea that he's ahead of Peyton Manning when he's behind by nearly every measure is the definition of being overrated.
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I wanted to go back and address this part too, because I think we have different definitions of "overrated". To be overrated, there has to be a prevailing opinion that the player is good. Immediately, that throws Brandon Weeden out of the conversation because nobody thinks he is good. Nobody.
RGIII was overrated last season in my IMO, but this season that bubble has burst. When the press is going all Roberto Duran on your behalf, asking for Kirk Cousins to be put on the field, how can you be overrated anymore at that point.
Lookd at the stats for Rivers' first two seasons as a starter. It actually provides a much better comparison for Luck than Manning does. The raw stats are similar, their performance relative to their peers is similar. I don't recall many people saying Rivers was a "great" QB, but he has had an above-average career after having a couple seasons at the beginning where he was about league-average.
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I will give you the AFC South is a joke, but just like everyone argues with the Buckeyes schedule you can only play who they put in front of you. I will say the following though:
Seattle - Win
San Francisco - Win
Denver - Win
KC - Win (2)
My final response to all of this, which I have said before, is that Luck is no more\less overrated than any other QB out there. Each QB is only as good as there last game and if that happens to be a SB win then they are given an elite status. There are those that will argue that Peyton is overrated and that Eli is a better QB than Peyton, so be it. I watched Peyton throw away a lot of chances here in Indy and I am willing to give Luck the benefit of the doubt, until he squanders as many opportunities as Peyton did. I have never once in all of this said that Luck is elite, but that he has the opportunity to be one of the elite QBs in the league. To dismiss him at this stage is ludicrous at best.
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Points taken. I don't think I'm dismissing him. Perhaps my initial comment pages ago indicated that, but if so I revise that position. My position is simply that people are saying he has been better than he has actually been so far, and are conflating his potential with achievement. I like Luck, I like Indy, and I hope he becomes everything people say he will.
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