2012 Preseason and regular polls (official thread)

[jwinslow]

NFL, everyone is fast and disciplined (mostly). College, there's going to be missed assignments, poor technique, etc. Less coaching time and overall depth of talent. Faster teams get away with those things. The better athletes win out when not everyone can be disciplined.

Oregon didn't get away with those things whatsoever. Wisconsin humiliated their defense. They just got to face an even worse defense with their great offense, so it worked out.

 

[Buckeye513]

Six sacks? Indicates to me that receivers couldn't get open and that's almost always speed against speed. Could also be linemen getting beat on the snap. Inability to stop Florida from going wide? Line? Line backers? DBs or the speed of Florida's backs? Kick blocked? If not for speed, how did the blocker get there?

QB protection, receivers getting open, and special teams in general were problems against everyone all season. No one argued that Indiana or Purdue were faster. And, if you want to believe Jaye Howard, Brewster tips the snap count pretty clearly.

Also, we did fine against Florida going wide. The longest run between Rainey and Demps was 11 yards. They had more success up the middle.

No doubt that this Buckeye team would have looked and played much differently if not for the loss of leadership, continuity and talent. That being said, the talent/speed drop off from the last two teams was evident. Here's hoping that Urban is addressing the issue as I write.

Oregon and Florida are more talented at some positions. Being faster and being more talented are not always the same thing. And, frankly, I'd take Thomas, Demps, or Rainey in a race against any LB or DB from any conference in the country.

 

[Bucky32]

How does one argue with someone lumping an incredibly diverse group of players, skillsets, strengths & weaknesses into a cute, frosted tip approved catch phrase like too much speed? I'll try, but I'm not convinced it's going to be productive.

Wisconsin wasn't slow on defense. They stink on defense. They overpursue, blow coverages, miss reads, miss tackles. This isn't a speed thing. For crying outloud, you watched a dreadful OSU team put up 33 on them a week after Sparty humiliated them with 37 pts. We knew that a long time ago, but because they have offense, people ignore it.


Ross Homan isn't any faster than those LBs, but he wouldn't be flying out of position all game, which is why Oregon had tons of trouble against OSU in their Rose matchup.

This guy knows what's up.

 

[muffler dragon]

Michigan's gonna get a top 5 pre-season ranking after this jackwagon of a game tonight. Insufferable bastards and gonna talk and talk and talk.

 

[HangOnSloopy27]

Michigan's gonna get a top 5 pre-season ranking after this jackwagon of a game tonight. Insufferable bastards and gonna talk and talk and talk.

They were preseason top 5 in 2007 too, then App St came to town

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

Michigan State got more sacks against the Buckeyes than Florida did. But they're from East Lansing, so the claim of superior speed doesn't fit the narrative.

Ohio State gave up kick return touchdowns to the likes of Iowa and Wisconsin in the past couple of years. But Corn and Cheese do not produce speed.

Ohio State's receivers had a hard time getting open against a lot of B1G teams this year. I'd love to hear what narrative includes this little factoid.

Florida has claimed, just as other teams have this year, that Brewster was an easy read and they were able to jump the count. The end-around to Posey was a play that even I was able to read within a half second of the snap, so it's no surprise that the Gator defense was in position. Running Dave, Dave, Draw for long stretches must have caught the Gator defense off guard. Oh wait, no it didn't. The point of all this is that it is easy to play fast when you know what is coming. Florida's defense did. Ohio State's defense didn't.

Finally, I will close with an unprovable rhetorical point because this is a pointless discussion anyway: Ohio State is very probably the fastest 6-7 team in the country. Speed is not this team's Achilles Heel. Speed is not the reason this team lost 7 games including the last 4. Execution, or rather the lack thereof, is the reason that the 2012 Buckeyes were not very good.

 

[korchiki]

Michigan's gonna get a top 5 pre-season ranking after this jackwagon of a game tonight. Insufferable bastards and gonna talk and talk and talk.

Who cares...I'd rather they beat Alabama and be ranked #1 when we beat them next year. It would make our "Bowl game" win all the more impressive.

 

[jwinslow]

Who cares...I'd rather they beat Alabama and be ranked #1 when we beat them next year. It would make our "Bowl game" win all the more impressive.

You want Michigan to go to another BCS game while OSU is sitting home? No thanks.

Particularly given the garbage that will be awaiting them in the CCG thanks to a sanction-depleted Leaders division.

 

[korchiki]

You want Michigan to go to another BCS game while OSU is sitting home? No thanks.

Particularly given the garbage that will be awaiting them in the CCG thanks to a sanction-depleted Leaders division.

That's fine with me as long as we beat them. I guess they can lose to MSU and then us.

I just don't want to see Wisconsin lose in another rose bowl and let's face it they will practically back into it next year.

 

[Bucky32]

That's fine with me as long as we beat them. I guess they can lose to MSU and then us.

I just don't want to see Wisconsin lose in another rose bowl and let's face it they will practically back into it next year.

Well, if Michigan's as good as people think they're going to be (which I don't see), they should have a good shot.

But I agree, I'd rather have Wisconsin win it outright than back in a la UCLA style to the B1GCCG/Rose Bowl.

 

[cincibuck]

Ah, I'm a stooge of ESPN talk. "Those guys hate Ohio State and the B1G and that's why you (I) think this team didn't have speed.

Michigan State got more sacks against the Buckeyes than Florida did. But they're from East Lansing, so the claim of superior speed doesn't fit the narrative.

Or maybe Hardy and Gholston have the same kind of speed advantage over the Bucks? I didn't say the Big 10 didn't have speed. I said that in a side-by-side comparison it looked to me as if Florida and Oregon had more speed than Ohio State and Wisconsin.

Ohio State gave up kick return touchdowns to the likes of Iowa and Wisconsin in the past couple of years. But Corn and Cheese do not produce speed.

Or maybe Johnson-Kohluianis and Toon have speed? They also gave up a ton of return yards to a Miami team that couldn't do much else, but hey, what the hell could that have to do with speed? Maybe those guys wore greased jerseys.

Ohio State's receivers had a hard time getting open against a lot of B1G teams this year. I'd love to hear what narrative includes this little factoid.

Maybe until Posey arrived on the scene there was no deep threat... and what did Posey bring to the situation? Speed. Why couldn't guys playing "speed" positions get open if not for a lack of speed?

Florida has claimed, just as other teams have this year, that Brewster was an easy read and they were able to jump the count.

And a slow coaching staff didn't correct that? So now coaching mental speed enters the picture?

The end-around to Posey was a play that even I was able to read within a half second of the snap, so it's no surprise that the Gator defense was in position.

And because Bostic could read the snap he was able to get to Posey before the blocker could get to him. So now we see that Florida is slow, but they have better peripheral vision.

Running Dave, Dave, Draw for long stretches must have caught the Gator defense off guard. Oh wait, no it didn't.

Back to mental speed again. Bollman didn't make adjustments as fast as Florida's DC did.

The point of all this is that it is easy to play fast when you know what is coming. Florida's defense did. Ohio State's defense didn't.

The French would have stopped the Germans in the Ardennes, but the fifth column gave their plans away.

Finally, I will close with an unprovable rhetorical point because this is a pointless discussion anyway: Ohio State is very probably the fastest 6-7 team in the country. Speed is not this team's Achilles Heel. Speed is not the reason this team lost 7 games including the last 4. Execution, or rather the lack thereof, is the reason that the 2012 Buckeyes were not very good.

This team was torn apart by the loss of the coach, the QB (and single best athlete in the conference, possibly all of CFB), the loss of their best running back, the loss of their best receiver and only deep threat and the loss of experienced linemen. In this particular game a blocked punt, a 90 some yard kick off return, an inability to reach the edge on offense and defense, an inability to get receivers open, it seems fair to me to speculate that just maybe speed was a factor. That or better peripheral vision.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

I know some of you are going to go ballistic over this, but Florida and Oregon were clearly much faster at damn near each position and wether it was a fault of coaching, or the importance of speed - the size and power of Big 10 teams didn't seem to be able to assert itself in critical moments of the game.

And yet we outgained Florida 299-263 and outscored them offensively 17-10. Poor special teams performance is what lost us the game.

 

[Gatorubet]

And yet we outgained Florida 299-263 and outscored them offensively 17-10. Poor special teams performance is what lost us the game.

I think our "prevent" defense had something to do with the final numbers. Trade clock for points when one is up by 14. But we could tee that one back up again with different results - no doubt about it.


( - not going for 4th and one made me throw up in my mouth a little bit. 28-10 would have been cork popping time, and giving it to you on the one foot line sending our D line in with their ears pinned back would have been an OK consolation outcome )

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

I don't agree with your reasoning, at least for the first few statements (and that's putting it mildly). But I don't even care about this to bother reading the rest. (especially when what I've read so far is utter nonsense)

Ah, I'm a stooge of ESPN talk. "Those guys hate Ohio State and the B1G and that's why you (I) think this team didn't have speed.

Or maybe Hardy and Gholston have the same kind of speed advantage over the Bucks? I didn't say the Big 10 didn't have speed. I said that in a side-by-side comparison it looked to me as if Florida and Oregon had more speed than Ohio State and Wisconsin.

Or maybe Johnson-Kohluianis and Toon have speed? They also gave up a ton of return yards to a Miami team that couldn't do much else, but hey, what the hell could that have to do with speed? Maybe those guys wore greased jerseys.

Maybe until Posey arrived on the scene there was no deep threat... and what did Posey bring to the situation? Speed. Why couldn't guys playing "speed" positions get open if not for a lack of speed?

And a slow coaching staff didn't correct that? So now coaching mental speed enters the picture? And because Bostic could read the snap he was able to get to Posey before the blocker could get to him. So now we see that Florida is slow, but they have better peripheral vision. Back to mental speed again. Bollman didn't make adjustments as fast as Florida's DC did.
The French would have stopped the Germans in the Ardennes, but the fifth column gave their plans away.



This team was torn apart by the loss of the coach, the QB (and single best athlete in the conference, possibly all of CFB), the loss of their best running back, the loss of their best receiver and only deep threat and the loss of experienced linemen. In this particular game a blocked punt, a 90 some yard kick off return, an inability to reach the edge on offense and defense, an inability to get receivers open, it seems fair to me to speculate that just maybe speed was a factor. That or better peripheral vision.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

I think our "prevent" defense had something to do with the final numbers. Trade clock for points when one is up by 14. But we could tee that one back up again with different results - no doubt about it.

Don't really think UF was in as much of a "prevent" as you insinuate. The 38-yard completion in the final drive wasn't a 10-yard catch with a 28-yard run...it was 38-yard deep pass completion and immediate tackle. Miller was 6-6 on that drive because he actually had time to pass. Even so, my original point about special teams costing us the game still stands...that and the ability of UF to rush at will due to our center telegraphing the snap.