2010 TSUN News offseason (football)

[buckeyesin07]

Is that, as BKB suggests, lack of depth? Maybe lack of experience? A year in which the breaks all went the other way?

Or is it possibly the lack of a coach who can keep himself together in crunch time? The shots of Dick Wad on the sidelines seem to say a good deal about how he tries to handle pressure. His frustration, confusion and chaotic manner remind me of John L. Smith at MSU and seem to end in the same results. Contrast that, if you will, with the sideline manner of Tressel.

Read enough UM blogs/message boards and you'll see that the general consensus around those parts is that UM is just really, really unlucky. Which, of course, is laughable.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

depth, especially along the lines, is the number one thing I would point to that KILLED Ohio State in the high profile bowl losses a few years ago, I have said it before, but the weak recruiting classes of '03 and '04 killed our depth in '06, '07, so while our starters were the best in the country, when we played LSU and Florida they rolled us with their depth along the lines especially

Agreed.

to bring this back to Michigan, it might not take them long (once they can Rodriguez) to get some starters in the pipeline to bring the program back to 9-3 seasons, it is going to take quite some time to get the depth back that they need to compete with elite teams

I'm not sure how long it might take, but each year that goes by hurts, in my opinion.

 

[brutus2002]

Well if they bring in a new coach with a different system you can count on several transfers...heck they are transfering rapidly as is.

This recruiting class will lose some OOS and will fizzle because of the change.

The NCAA might have scholarship reductions for them so that will hurt even worse.

Nebraska joining the B10 hurts Michigan because it makes winning the championship harder...plus if they are on your schedule that will hurt as well. Plus Pelini will compete for Ohio players against them...another hand in the Ohio/midwest cookie jar they have to contend with. I hope they have Nebraska for the first few years they join the conference making it even harder for them to improve their record.

If a new coach comes in and goes to a pro style offense it could take 2-3 years just to get the right players...the defense will take at least 2-3 years to get back to being decent.

Michigans biggest mistake was letting MSU recruit Michigan better than they do...also this will be the 3rd year straight MSU beats them...only complicating Michigan problems even more.

 

[BB73]

I've spent some time re-watching five games, Michigan - Iowa, Michigan - Notre Dame, Michigan - Illinois and Michigan - Ohio State. Two games that in the past have always been tough and two games that Michigan usually put away early in the 3rd Quarter. What I come away with is the notion that in each game Michigan had the talent to be in the game (and in one case to win), but had the sort of things happen to them that used to happen to the other team. In two games, Illinois and Ohio State, they became completely unglued in the 4th quarter.

Is that, as BKB suggests, lack of depth? Maybe lack of experience? A year in which the breaks all went the other way?

Or is it possibly the lack of a coach who can keep himself together in crunch time? The shots of Dick Wad on the sidelines seem to say a good deal about how he tries to handle pressure. His frustration, confusion and chaotic manner remind me of John L. Smith at MSU and seem to end in the same results. Contrast that, if you will, with the sideline manner of Tressel.

They really do wear down during the season. They didn't even show up for the fifth game you mentioned. :tongue2:

 

[cincibuck]

They really do wear down during the season. They didn't even show up for the fifth game you mentioned. :tongue2:

I honestly don't see that. I've watched that game four or five times now and except for the end zone fumble -- amazingly called before it happens -- and the two interceptions in the fourth -- they're in the game and playing well in bursts-- and then Dick Wad starts screaming and tossing his head phones and Tater Tot is either looking like a whipped puppy or pouting on the bench -- and they fall apart.

 

[Buckeye86]

I honestly don't see that. I've watched that game four or five times now and except for the end zone fumble -- amazingly called before it happens -- and the two interceptions in the fourth -- they're in the game and playing well in bursts-- and then Dick Wad starts screaming and tossing his head phones and Tater Tot is either looking like a whipped puppy or pouting on the bench -- and they fall apart.

whoosh!

you said you had been re-watching five games and then only listed four

 

[Jaxbuck]

I've spent some time re-watching five games, Michigan - Iowa, Michigan - Notre Dame, Michigan - Illinois and Michigan - Ohio State. Two games that in the past have always been tough and two games that Michigan usually put away early in the 3rd Quarter. What I come away with is the notion that in each game Michigan had the talent to be in the game (and in one case to win), but had the sort of things happen to them that used to happen to the other team. In two games, Illinois and Ohio State, they became completely unglued in the 4th quarter.

Is that, as BKB suggests, lack of depth? Maybe lack of experience? A year in which the breaks all went the other way?

Or is it possibly the lack of a coach who can keep himself together in crunch time? The shots of Dick Wad on the sidelines seem to say a good deal about how he tries to handle pressure. His frustration, confusion and chaotic manner remind me of John L. Smith at MSU and seem to end in the same results. Contrast that, if you will, with the sideline manner of Tressel.

Its been brought up many times in other threads but I think there can be little to no doubt on this one.

I remember being struck by this in 2007 when none of us (except a magnificent SOB up north) had any clue he has going to be the next scUM head coach. We all know about the WVU vs Pitt choke job but the one that really got me was a week or two before when he tried to piss away the game at UC. I was, and am still, amazed at how tight the team was and how much of a visible extension of their HC it was. He literally had tears in his eyes during the game as White was turning the ball over and momentum was swinging badly against him.

I mentioned somewhere else recently but it was so bad I remember thinking he made Coopers 1000 yard-Oh Shit!-what do I do stare look like Cool Hand Luke.

To me that is going to be the real shame in all this if RR gets fired too soon. scUM fans will never get that extra kick in the nuts when they find out that even if he could overcome all the other issues that are so well noted, even IF he could get them back to playing a meaningful big game, the fucker has a history of spitting the bit longer than a gorillas dick.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

The other factor I didn't mention in my previous post regarding what may be Michigan's problems is - Leadership, from players on the team.

Setting aside the particulars of Woolfolk's comments as a "leader" I'm talking more about the "big name" recruits they have and their .... dedication....

JT Turner was supposed to be a real addition to what has been a struggling DB group since... what.. when Woodson left? It's been a while, for sure. But... even setting aside his asking for, and being granted, a release yesterday - it's pretty obvious he never showed up with the attitude that he was going to lead by example.

Will Campbell - Here's a guy who is a legitimate "big time" guy coming out of HS - held offers from some very big time schools (Not that that's the only factor)... and from what I'm reading, there's some concern over his work ethic and weight and coachability... I suppose this is a fairly regular "problem" to have with a kid who was so physically dominant over the players he faced in HS (See, Mike Adams) a "Why should I work, I overpower everyone" sort of attitude. He'll either "get it" or he wont. Jury is still out on him, I'd say.

Tate Forcier - Supposed to be the leader and they can't get this lazy fuck to do anything ... go to class... practice in the off season... nothing.

Those are 3 of their bigger names from the 09 class... Granted, freshman aren't normally expected to come in and "lead" the team... but... it seems pretty clear 2 of these guys are complete busts in the leadership department, and the other will have to establish a willingness to see areas he needs to improve and a willingness to actually work on those areas.

Anyway, like I said.. a Freshman probably can't come in and say follow me (Mo C did, though, in 2002 and, like it or not, it worked) but he CAN demonstrate hustle, effort and desire 100% of the time. These three "faces of 2009" have not.

 

[cincibuck]

whoosh!

you said you had been re-watching five games and then only listed four

oppps I thought I listed Michigan - Michigan State too.

 

[cincibuck]

Tate Forcier - Supposed to be the leader and they can't get this lazy fuck to do anything ... go to class... practice in the off season... nothing.

Watch what happens when he gets pulled late in the OSU, Iowa, Illinois games. He goes off and pouts. He's "all in" for Tate and that's about it.

By the same token, watch Mike Martin. Undersized for Big 10 defensive players, but he plays and acts like it matters to him.

 

[WolverineMike]

Watch what happens when he gets pulled late in the OSU, Iowa, Illinois games. He goes off and pouts. He's "all in" for Tate and that's about it.

By the same token, watch Mike Martin. Undersized for Big 10 defensive players, but he plays and acts like it matters to him.

same with Kovacs. I know he's a walkon and UM takes heat because they are forced to play him in a secondary lacking a lot of talent, but he plays balls out with a lot of emotion on every play. He's one of those guys where you say "I wish I had a team of Kovac hearts."

I hope he can make some more improvements become a player known more for making plays and less for being a walk on.

 

[Oh8ch]

With Michigan's lack of depth and the toll that CFBs grueling schedule can take I sure would like to be the team that gets them last.

 

[Ttown]

I'll throw my hat in the ring with those who think they are lacking depth.
I was gleefully aware of that last year watching them lose in the second half game after game.
That lack of depth also contributes to and is part of the lack of talent obviously. (said Captain obvious)

 

[buxfan4life]

same with Kovacs. I know he's a walkon and UM takes heat because they are forced to play him in a secondary lacking a lot of talent, but he plays balls out with a lot of emotion on every play. He's one of those guys where you say "I wish I had a team of Kovac hearts."

I hope he can make some more improvements become a player known more for making plays and less for being a walk on.

Unfortunately for UM, their are too many kids that lack this heart. Seriously, this team quit during games the second part of last year and that is why the wheels fell off. It seemed that there really was a lack of desire on both sides of the ball during the second half of games late in the season, save guys like BG who went balls out on every single play.

Again, this goes back to the people in charge, the coaching staff. It is one thing to get out there and write up funky plays that may or may not catch an opposing defense off guard, but it is something totally different to manage and mentor young men and mold them into leaders and competitors.

It has been said a couple times in these threads already, but the way that Richy conducts himself is a direct corellation to how his players will conduct themselves. I have yet to see this guy show any type of, um, manhood (i guess would be the term) in dealing with the situation. He always deflects probing questions, like when he brings up "I will only talk about players who want to play for michigan" as a stock answer regarding the reasons for players wanting out of his program. To me, this answer says he writes off anyone who is not "All In" according to him, which rubs certain people the wrong way both inside and outside of the program. If the kid who is transfering doesn't like it there, man up and say that "So and so decided that he would have a better opportunity elsewhere, and I am not one to stand in the way of their chosen path" is a much better, and nicer, comment to make in these types of circumstances.

Richy's stock answer works in the NFL as the players are essentially their own businesses and are looking out for themselves rather than the team in many cases, but it doesn't work in college football. You have to be more than an X and O guy to be a successful college coach. The epitome of this theory is good ole Cholly and his "schematic advantage". You could have the best playbook in the NCAA, but if you can't mentor and manage young men, then that playbook means absolutely nothing. I think Richy is finding this out the hard way.

 

[brutus2002]

WMike

I guess the problem is that Kovacs is a walk-on that is obviously better than the 3-4-5* recurits Michigan spent a scholarship on. That tells me that the guys in your secondary are not getting better. If I am a young stud I would be drooling at the chance to steal that open slot...unfortunately for you guys nobody is stepping up. Kovacs is a great story but the underlying problem is either recruiting/development or both. This is glaringly obvious especially when watching Michigans team last year and in the spring game.