2010 TSUN arguments & shenanigans (in-season)

[RockstarBuckeye]

Rod's face was frigging hilarious on that TD pass. I think he was passing a stone.

Remember that face. It will look similar when he tries to pull a bowl game victory out of his ass!

 

[WolverineMike]

PROGRESS!!!!!

 

[Onebuckfan]

That 7th win could be a killer for a Bowl WIN for scUM. I believe that scUM could contend for a conference title next year..to bad their in the Big 10 not the MAC!:)

 

[NFBuck]

I thought that too for a second, but he was talking about Michigan's performances against the top teams in the Big Ten that they have played. Obviously they have not played us yet.

This is tom beaver. I can assure you it was a dig at tOSU. Especially given the thread he started minutes later. Next to pumping sunshine and flipping coins, it's what he does best.

 

[NFBuck]

Oh, so much material to chose from this morning. Lets see...this from this morning's excuse riddled post blaming everything strictly on youth (yet again). He rails against Spielman for having the gall to criticize the scheme. It's not dickrod's scheme...it's never the scheme!!!! Some see through the bullshit, but it's again blamed on the previous regime because they recruited these scrubs.

• TomBeaver
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Nominate | Report Posted: Today 9:45 AM
RE: BigJes - agree

those vets are mainly 2nd-tier guys

BigJes wrote: The frustrating thing about the run defense is that up front, at DL and LB, we are actually fairly experienced:

Roh- Soph (didn't play much in the 2nd half, Banks played alot- 5th year guy)
MM - Junior
RVB - 4th year Junior
OLB - Ezeh 5th year
MLB - Demens 3rd year
LB - Mouton 5th year

For subs we saw Patterson 5th year, Sagasse 5th year and Black frosh.

This front 6 is mostly upperclassmen and yet they were pushed around like they too were abunch of first and second year players.​

Okay, thomas. You're correct. They are second tier players. Now, my question...who has been recruited that are better than these guys? Because I'm not seeing it. So, replacing "second tier players" with "second tier players" is gonna result in improvement. Lock it up, thomas. You make it too easy sometimes.
​

 

[NFBuck]

More...

• TomBeaver
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Nominate | Report Posted: Today 9:22 AM
Sunday Morning TJBlog

The Ole? D

After stopping Wisconsin on their first possession, it was acourse the matador-D for the rest of the way. The Badgers put up 24 a half -- and in the 2nd half The Badgers only had to throw it once.

There were three types of comments made about the D yesterday.

(1) Commentator Chris Spielman kept hammering Michigan?s 3-3-5 D, although, funny enough, when he drew the ?holes? in the 3-3-5 after one play, he was penciling onto the 4-3 that U-M had run the previous play. Still, Spielman repeated ?3-3-5? enough to hammer that even further into the minds of some?
... **and, admittedly, it was mainly 3-3-5 out there yesterday.
**to me, when U-M plays the 3-3-5 the linebackers have to come downhill and fill those 'holes', that's the idea
... and Mike Martin was getting double-teamed-blocked when he was in there yesterday as well.
***So, U-M was certainly badly out-sized out there ... and you had Wisconsin LM and TEs creaming the U-M LBs

(2) Coach Rodriguez, in his postgame presser, again bemoaned the youth of the D, saying ?find another team with 5 frosh? on D much of the time, and also saying, ?They're older, bigger, experienced physical teams versus our younger, inexperienced, undersized team.?

Um, no, moron. They were in the 3-3-5. Now he's just plain making stuff up to cover for dickrod. Glorious.


Also, I have sure been hearing a lot about how "small" and "weak" they are lately (seems to being gaining on inexperience as the excuse du jour). I thought Barwis (!!!!11!!1!!) was a miracle man. But, he has been mentioned and slobbered over less and less.

Whoops:

• SuperStudSteve
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Nominate | Report Posted: Today 11:08 AM
Re: Sunday Morning TJBlog



---------------------------------------------
--- TomBeaver wrote:

(1) Commentator Chris Spielman kept hammering Michigan’s 3-3-5 D, although, funny enough, when he drew the ‘holes’ in the 3-3-5 after one play, he was penciling onto the 4-3 that U-M had run the previous play. Still, Spielman repeated “3-3-5” enough to hammer that even further into the minds of some…
... **and, admittedly, it was mainly 3-3-5 out there yesterday.
---------------------------------------------

3-man line, with ray/jb squatting on either edge.

2nd qtr, 9:39 left. The replay of the penalty zooms right in on the line.

...that's the play in question. Alignment? Yep, 3-3-5...better be careful SSS, if you're not lock step with the all-in crowd over there, thomas will ban you...

 

[NFBuck]

Still more, he's been a goldmine the past 20 hours or so...

• TomBeaver
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Nominate | Report Posted: Today 10:59 AM
RE: BigJes

I dunno, too early to tell.

Oddly, the majority of U-M's Army-AAs have turned into busts (Mallett, Slocum, Boren, Mouton-sorta, McMinney, Boubacar, McGuffie, Mike Williams) ... B-Graham , somewhat-Warren, somewhat-Schilling are about the only ones that have panned out.

It is the 2012 class that, on paper, looks solid with Closer-in-D kids: The Cas kids, Biggs, O'Brien ... finally.

There ARE more steller-recruiters on the O side (Smith, Demens, and Frey gets his LM) vs Gibby on the D-side ... I personally thought losing Hopson was a recruiting-loss

BTW, we hear good things wrt Ash and DL-Talbott ... and Wasington will be stout over there as well.

BigJes wrote: The biggest difference is that when we had depth problems in the past, we had 5* Army All american type players like Marlin Jackson, Leon Hall, Donovan Warren come in and win starting jobs. Not 2-3* kids like Vinopal, Carvin Johnson and Courtney Avery. And that's the DB's. Where are the Gabe Watson, Alan Branch, Lamarr Woodley, Brandon Graham, Mike Martin types of DL recruits that we use to land? I don't see any. I see some 3-4* types that hopefully can contribute as they get older and be solid but I don't see any 1-2 round NFL draft type talents. Do you? And the 2011 recruiting class is half done and time is running out for other 5* front 7 type help.

Seriously, are you content with RR's defensive recruiting for half the 2008 class and the 2009/2010 and half the 2011 class?​

​

So, once again, all these higher rated kids have been busts. It couldn't possibly be that they were simply poor fits for a stupid system or that your guys just failed to develop them. No, no...never. It's never dickrod's doing. Not once in three years. ​

 

[LordJeffBuck]

Still more, he's been a goldmine the past 20 hours or so...

• TomBeaver
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Nominate | Report Posted: Today 10:59 AM
RE: BigJes

I dunno, too early to tell.

Oddly, the majority of U-M's Army-AAs have turned into busts (Mallett, Slocum, Boren, Mouton-sorta, McMinney, Boubacar, McGuffie, Mike Williams) ... B-Graham , somewhat-Warren, somewhat-Schilling are about the only ones that have panned out.

It is the 2012 class that, on paper, looks solid with Closer-in-D kids: The Cas kids, Biggs, O'Brien ... finally.

There ARE more steller-recruiters on the O side (Smith, Demens, and Frey gets his LM) vs Gibby on the D-side ... I personally thought losing Hopson was a recruiting-loss

BTW, we hear good things wrt Ash and DL-Talbott ... and Wasington will be stout over there as well.

BigJes wrote: The biggest difference is that when we had depth problems in the past, we had 5* Army All american type players like Marlin Jackson, Leon Hall, Donovan Warren come in and win starting jobs. Not 2-3* kids like Vinopal, Carvin Johnson and Courtney Avery. And that's the DB's. Where are the Gabe Watson, Alan Branch, Lamarr Woodley, Brandon Graham, Mike Martin types of DL recruits that we use to land? I don't see any. I see some 3-4* types that hopefully can contribute as they get older and be solid but I don't see any 1-2 round NFL draft type talents. Do you? And the 2011 recruiting class is half done and time is running out for other 5* front 7 type help.

Seriously, are you content with RR's defensive recruiting for half the 2008 class and the 2009/2010 and half the 2011 class?​

​

So, once again, all these higher rated kids have been busts. It couldn't possibly be that they were simply poor fits for a stupid system or that your guys just failed to develop them. No, no...never. It's never dickrod's doing. Not once in three years. ​

Boren a bust? I'll take him....

 

[OSU_Buckguy]

for all of beaver's poor, uninformed discounting of spielman's opinions, the m*ch*gan boards (the victor's club included) respect and praise #36.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Boren a bust? I'll take him....

I'm pretty sure Arkansas is o.k. with Mallett as well.

 

[TresselstillownsTSUN]

Mallet is laughing all the way to the bank. How can a perseason All-American, maybe first rounder, be a bust?

Oh yeah, cause he and Boren are lazy, and don't wanna work. Time is ticking until the civial war on that board starts.

 

[Beaver]

for all of beaver's poor, uninformed discounting of spielman's opinions, the m*ch*gan boards (the victor's club included) respect and praise #36.

In response to Tom claiming Spiels doesn't know what he's talking about:

Seems like some of what Speilman said was accurate... like poor tackling and poor angles.. But maybe that is just me. ....And I also agree with what Michael Taylor said on the show about the front line, etc...

But I am not naive, the Defense is outmatched against all teams but Purdue in bad conditions. And the offense has to carry the team and survive a shootout. A goose egg in the first half beats no one we play the rest of the year....

People can rip Spielman for being biased, but the man knows a thing or two about football and defense. If he says that the 3-3-5 is not a scheme suited to the Big Ten, I tend to believe him.

What happens when you poke holes in his claims?

Yes, I know Spielman said that about recruiting -- but he has no idea about U-M's 1st and 2nd year recruits (those are RR's recruits), except for the DBs who were out there

And Dorsey is a DB, and he'd be a frosh, so that part made no sense -- so Spielman was WAY off base, as far as recruiting I mean ... he was just repeating things he'd heard that didn't actually make sense

I believe Spielman was spot on. He may not know everything but he is correct in A)this staff does not always recruit the "top" defensive players but more guys they want to fit into this silly 3-3-5. and B)He made a clear Demar Dorsey reference without using a name. When he said "the kid from Florida should definitely have been playing here" and he said he totally disagreed that he wasn't. (Of course Rodriguez deserves nothing but an A+ for that recruiting win) Unfortunately he had that one pick pocketed..

Funny, I remember a lot of TJBlogs making excuses about how things would be different if Demar was here.

bluea2 - c'mon "insisted they run the 3-3-5"
How do you know that? You don't, except that it gets repeated by folks who have no idea, but it sounds 'good' (meaning "bad"). It's Urban myth.
(BTW, if you listed to Michael Taylor this AM, he talked about the U-M's D's when he was playing being 3-5-3 defenses)

The 3rd-4th-5th years DLs were not RR's, as I pointed out above.
U-M shoulda have 2 second year DTs, but both decommitted -- but how would that have helped this year?
U-M does have 2 first year DTs -- but you've laready decided they're no good.
And you've already 'prounced' the upcoming recruiting class as well??? With S-Day 12 weeks away?

C'mon.

**No one is disputing that the D sucks ... but you're going off the cliff based on these non-facts**

(I will also say -- I wonder if Big Will makes his way back to DL after practicing some on the OL, if that'll help fix his standing-up flaw). Big Will's ineffectiveness as a DT really hurts)

what has (not) happened on the defensive side in recruiting. I do put a portion of this on LC...as evidenced by the fact that we have almost NO 5th year defensive players...especially at LB and DL...

But, I cannot imagine any coach not seeing this glaring need from the very first practice..! Look at the top teams in the B10...OSU, Wiscy, MSU, Iowa, heck even NW...ALL those teams run 4-man Dlines...ALL of them.

UM/RR meanwhile has continued to (stubbornly, IMO) run out this 3-3-5 scheme rather than a 4-3...and the results have been historically bad.

Now, to be honest, we all know UM does not have the personnel to execute ANY defensive scheme...we simply do not have even mediocre B10 defensive players. Opposing teams have controlled the LOS on our defense since the moment RR arrived.

In response, RR has hired two DCoordinators and insisted they run the 3-3-5, rather than sticking to the 4-3 and trying to recruit to that. The real kicker here is that UM D in 2011 is in the same, or worse if MM goes pro, position. We have almost ZERO Dline possibilities in recruiting...spare me the fantasy of Tim Jerigan...so, UM will trot out Ash and Talbot next year as replacements...guys who may be good players but who have never played a down for UM.

Sorry, it's very hard to be optimistic looking ahead. IMO, UM needs 3-4 STUD Dline guys in this class and then allow the DCoord to recruit and run a 4-3...the defense most great teams use....and one UM used for 40+ years....

This is RR's responsibility...100%...and I expect DB to hold him accountable.

No, clearly after 2.5 years of running this defense, it isn't something they insist on running.

Fans will recall how the 3-3-5 was forced onto the defense before the purdue disaster, and done so behind Shafer's back.

_________________

or the thread started on Spiels yesterday

He's calling it like it is today. Really ripping into the lack of technique, poor tackling, etc. He should know ... he was one of the best I ever saw defensively at the high school level here in Ohio, college, and pros.

Man the truth hurts sometime.

he might be the best in the business...

+1. I love the guy even though he is a pos sucknugget.

FranchiseUofM wrote: He's so spot on with his takes on UofM recruiting.​

+100000000 only the folks with their blue glasses on don't want to admit this.

Most interesting quote to me was "at Michigan you can't settle for the same kids that you might have settled for at West Virginia."

Again, I think he's spot on.

or a random tidbit from SoJ

So I spoke with Chris Spielman yesterday

True story here. My brother and I were heading south down SR 23 towards C-Bus, a few hours after the Michigan game was over. We were heading to Delaware to watch our HS alma-mater play in the 3rd round of the OHSSA football playoffs. We stopped in Marion, OH for gas and "beverages" at a Speedway (just down from Marion Harding HS).

I started pumping gas while my brother went inside. Moments later he comes out clamoring for me to get him something to write with. I ask him WTH is going on when he says "Chris Spielman is inside!!" Sure enough, I look in through the doors and there stands Spielman waiting to pay. My brother had asked him for an autograph inside, and Spielman told him he'd "catch him outside". He was obviously in a hurry and hoping to not draw attention to himself.

So when he comes out he quickly signs and autograph for my brother, and starts to head towards his SUV (a very nice GMC of course) when I walk past him and jokingly asked him if he would be OUR defensive coordinator.

He laughed and my brother told him how both of us were talking about that on our drive down after listening to him during the broadcast of the game.

Spielman's exact words were "you have have to get some better players first". He went on to talk about how surprised he was just watching the defensive players in warmups, during the game...etc. and how they seemed so far from the Michigan Defensive players of the past. That part was disheartening of course....but Spielman is one of my favorite all-time OSU players and a player I greatly respected..

Just a cool story....

or others losing faith

You said the same thing last year if there was gonig to be another year under the belt of all the players with the same coordinator.

This Is Ridiculous BS

I used to come to this board for info I didn't get anywhere else and an honest discussion of the football program. But all year, these Tom posts have sought to apologize for RR and paint a rosy picture under the intellectually dishonest guise of "IMO" and "just the facts." It's BS. Unless Michigan beats OSU next week, it will finish its third year under RR having never beaten a team that finished with a winning record in the Big Ten. That is a fact, too, and there are many more that are always conveniently left out from these set-the-record-straight posts.

People can decide for themselves if RR should be fired, if the team is making sufficient progress, if Michigan runs the right defense. I'd say no, no, and no, but that's just me. The endless deification of Tom, and his endless spinning, are beneath the standard of quality that I used to find here, however. If this is a cheerleading site meant to assist recruiting, then so be it. Just say so. If, on the other hand, this is a site for real conversation, then these posts meant to frame the debate are a disservice to the product supposedly offered.

***Just my IMO.***

I see what he did there.

 

[zwem]

Boren a bust? I'll take him....

I would ask him how is Mallett a bust? Don't even get me started with Brandon Graham. Mallett has Arkansas ranked in the top 15 which isn't easy considering Arkansas is in the SEC and can't compete with the big dogs for recruits in that conference. Sure Arkansas can land some great players but not even close to the pace like Florida, Alabama, LSU, Georgia, etc. He will be a first round draft pick.

Brandon Graham lead THE NATION in tackles for a loss with a horrible defense and constantly getting double teamed and sometimes triple teamed. He went in the 1st round in last year's draft. What else do you want from him?

BigJes brought up good points. It is different in starting a 5 star freshman over a 2 star player that had no major offers. It also doesn't help that Michigan has 20+ transfers in the RR era.

I have said maybe Michigan can't get the recruits they used to get. Lot of good teams to compete with. Michigan is losing good players to Michigan ST. and that never happens. Maybe it's because RR is coach. Maybe not. Regardless there is no reason why Michigan can't do better on the recruiting trail despite not doing well the past several seasons. However Michigan can still be a solid team without the 5 star players. Just need a good coach who can coach up the higher 3 star players. Nebraska is a solid team without the big recruiting classes, Stanford is up there along with Oregon. Several teams that do well without a "stud class." People just don't realize how a coaching staff can turn around/improve a program. There is nothing more important in my opinion when it comes to college football.

I actually like Spielman. He is one of the few buckeyes I can stand. I wasn't mad he was getting after us......because he expects better at Michigan. RR needs to stop recruiting like he is at WV. Does he not realize all the resources he has? Yes the Michigan secondary is young and horrible. However, if you can recruit in the trenches with players that can make an impact. That could disguise the weakness in the secondary.

I'm also tired of Michigan dropping all their guys back into coverage. Michigan has one game left. Just go in with a [censored] it attitude and bring pressure every play. What difference does it make? Michigan has been gashed all year dropping back. Michigan has nothing to lose and has already made whatever [censored]ty bowl game they get invited to. Bring at least 6-7 guys every time. Try something different instead of the same [censored] every game.

Now to the Game.

I don't care if we are 0-11 or 11-0 (Well I do, but you know what I mean). Don't care if both teams suck or both teams come in 11-0. I don't care if Michigan sucks and Ohio St is good or Ohio St sucks and Michigan is good. It doesn't matter if the game is in Columbus or Ann Arbor. I don't care if Michigan wins by 1 point or 80 points. It doesn't matter if I'm in Michigan, Tennessee, Germany, or anywhere else. I always look forward to this [censored]ing game. I would wish you guys luck but I would be a liar. I know Michigan will probably lose and get blown out, but I hope Michigan spoils your big ten championship and denies you guys of a BCS game.

Now to watch some NFL.

 

[NFBuck]

or others losing faith

I see what he did there.

Contrast that with the blind lemmings that just want their sunshine...

• bgMichigan
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Nominate | Report Posted: Today 12:34 PM
Re: Sunday Morning TJBlog

Thks again, Tom. Your info is a blessing for me. It makes me feel like Im right their in Ann Arbor with the team.

 

[MaxBuck]

Gotta love those wacky Wolverine fans. From the GBW Stadium and Main board:

Posted: Yesterday 7:55 PM
Re: The early O prediction thread
Maybe the Ohio state police pull over our team bus on the way to the game and detain all of our players until after kickoff for alleged past violations and we can't field a team.

That way we forfeit and lose only 1-0 (if I'm interpreting NCAA rules correctly). We'd beat the spread by like 20.