2010 Red Sox Thread

[OSUsushichic]

what team would Jeter be on if he started with the Pirates. still the Pirates?

Yarrr!!!

 

[BayBuck]

i'm told round these parts that i'm not suppose to care about historical championships and records, remember? So yeah, I'm still laughing at NY.

So 2009 is ancient history?

michigan =/= Yankees, not even close

 

[Nutriaitch]

that's a pretty convenient little time table, isn't it?

i went back 10 years earlier in this thread.
but that wasn't good enough.
so now I went back 32 years.

if you only look at the last 5 years, we've had 5 different champs.
only the Phils with more than 1 world series appearance.

3 of the 10 participants had payrolls over 100mil.
3 of the 10 participants had payrolls under 60mil.

the last time the Yanks were far and away the most dominant team in baseball was the 40's, 50's, and 60's.
Before Free Agency even existed.

Plus a brief period at the end of the 90's, but they were nowhere near as dominant as those teams of the past.

Included in your bogus percentages are the Pirates, Royals, Orioles, and Blue Jays.

ok, this past decade ('01-'10)
Baseball = 9 teams won titles
Football = 7 teams won titles
Basketball = 5 teams won titles


wanna stop it at last 5?
Baseball = 5
football = 4
basketball = 4

how about 15 years?
baseball = 10
football = 11
basketball = 7


20 years?
baseball = 13
football = 13
basketball = 8


pick the time frame.
since guys named Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Bera, and Mantle retired, baseball is as competitively balanced as any other league.

and this in the league that allows the fewest # of teams into the playoffs each year.

yet they still have more turnover than the other 2 leagues.

 

[3074326]

Boston has a lot of homegrown talent as well -- Lester, Buchholz, Papelbon, Bard, Youk, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lowrie...

Kalish is going to be a good one as well.

The Red Sox deserve a lot of credit for what they've done with their farm system. They don't need to buy their players, but they do anyways.

so is the ultimate goal to sign a big name player, or to win the World Series?

Is this even a serious question? The ultimate goal is to have a league that's as competitive as possible. When you take more than 2/3 of teams out of serious free agency considerations, it's broken.

do you think Giants fans are complaining that all they did was win a title when what they really wanted was to sign Roy Halladay instead?

The Giants had four players making more than two entire teams. I don't think they're a good example.

the Red Sox have missed the postseason as many times as they have won the WS since '04.

Were they competitive? Did they have to blow up the team? Did they still buy their players?

5 teams in the last 10 years had a payroll that ranked outside the top 10 in MLB. 6 if you count SF ranking right at 10th last year.

First, why would you not count SF if they were literally ranked in the top 10? Second, like I said, the Marlins and Diamondbacks are the only two teams since '95 who have won without a ton of money at their disposal.

I can't believe this is an argument. I'm done with it. No use in debating with someone who simply cannot see a huge fucking problem when it's staring him in the face. Sorry, you're wrong here. Keep throwing out stats all you want. The system is broken. It's not right that 5-7 teams have a legit shot at free agents and the rest don't. How are you defending that? The system allows for teams to be competitive until their players leave for big markets. Then they have to rebuild and the process repeats itself. That's why random teams win every once in a while. Of course you, a Red Sox fan, would be fine with that. It allows you to be competitive every year without having to worry about half the teams in the league having a shot in hell at making the playoffs.

Why even have a draft? Why do the Pirates even exist? They'll never win anything in the current system.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

i went back 10 years earlier in this thread.
but that wasn't good enough.
so now I went back 32 years.

if you only look at the last 5 years, we've had 5 different champs.
only the Phils with more than 1 world series appearance.

3 of the 10 participants had payrolls over 100mil.
3 of the 10 participants had payrolls under 60mil.

the last time the Yanks were far and away the most dominant team in baseball was the 40's, 50's, and 60's.
Before Free Agency even existed.

Plus a brief period at the end of the 90's, but they were nowhere near as dominant as those teams of the past.








ok, this past decade ('01-'10)
Baseball = 9 teams won titles
Football = 7 teams won titles
Basketball = 5 teams won titles


wanna stop it at last 5?
Baseball = 5
football = 4
basketball = 4

how about 15 years?
baseball = 10
football = 11
basketball = 7


20 years?
baseball = 13
football = 13
basketball = 8


pick the time frame.
since guys named Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Bera, and Mantle retired, baseball is as competitively balanced as any other league.

and this in the league that allows the fewest # of teams into the playoffs each year.

yet they still have more turnover than the other 2 leagues.

Are there teams in basketball and football that have 0% chance of ever winning the championship? There are lots of those teams in baseball.

Of those 9 teams that won the title in the last 10 years....without looking I'd guess the overwhelming majority are big market teams.

You can spin the numbers any way you want, but I don't think any sane person could think that the baseball system isn't broken.

 

[Nutriaitch]

You can spin the numbers any way you want, but I don't think any sane person could think that the baseball system isn't broken.

ok, lets play hypothetical.

at what $ do you set the cap?

last year, the Pirates spent $34 mil in payroll.

21 diferrent teams spent more than double that.
do you think if you told the Yanks they can't spend more than 80 that the pirates would suddenly jump and spend 50 mil for the 1st time ever?

or do we have to bring the entire league down to their level?

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

or do we need a min and a max?

 

[Bucklion]

ok, lets play hypothetical.

at what $ do you set the cap?

last year, the Pirates spent $34 mil in payroll.

21 diferrent teams spent more than double that.
do you think if you told the Yanks they can't spend more than 80 that the pirates would suddenly jump and spend 50 mil for the 1st time ever?

or do we have to bring the entire league down to their level?

Actually yes, at least eventually, I would say they would, because the Steelers and Colts and other small market teams in the NFL typically spend at around the cap I would imagine. The Pirates were pretty good for a long time...no reason to believe they wouldn't draw enough fans to pay for a competitive team if they had a level chance of fielding a competitive team.

 

[Bucklion]

or do we need a min and a max?

I honestly don't think there would need to be a min...if teams like the Pirates and Indians could offer the same money that the Yankees could, at least in certain situations, they could at least keep their own players they develop...and I imagine they would.

 

[NFBuck]

like I said, the Marlins and Diamondbacks are the only two teams since '95 who have won without a ton of money at their disposal.

Actually, the Diamondbacks spent big money on the reason they won that WS...Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling. They weren't a scrappy, underpaid underdog by any stretch.

 

[Nutriaitch]

I honestly don't think there would need to be a min...if teams like the Pirates and Indians could offer the same money that the Yankees could, at least in certain situations, they could at least keep their own players they develop...and I imagine they would.

the Pirates don't have to spend the money the Yankees do.

but Jesus Christ, is it too much to ask them to at least attempt to keep up with the Brewers in spending?

Milwaukee is the smallest market MLB has to offer.
Noticeably smaller than Pittsburgh is.

The Brewers managed to spend $80mil on Payroll.

Pittsburgh is a bigger market than Cincinnati
the reds spent over $70 mil

that's 2 teams in their division in smaller markets spending more than double what the pirates are spending.
more than freaking double!!

when the smallest market in the league is that far ahead of you, you ain't even trying.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

Originally Posted by Nutriaitch
so is the ultimate goal to sign a big name player, or to win the World Series?

Lou Brown: I thought you said we didn't have any high priced talent.
Charlie Donovan: Forget about Dorn, he's just high priced.
Pepper Leach: [Vaughn pulls up on a motorcycle] Look at this fuckin'guy.
Lou Brown: My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team.


Board Member 1: I've never heard of half of these guys and the ones I do know are way past their prime.
Charlie Donovan: Most of these guys never had a prime.
Rachel Phelps: The fact is we lost our two best players to free agency. We haven't won a pennant in over thirty-five years, we haven't placed higher than fourth in the last fifteen. Obviously it's time for some changes.
Board Member 2: This guy here is dead!
Rachel Phelps: Cross him off, then!



and my favorite, even though its not necessarily fitting...
Chaire Holloway: So, what team do you play for?
Jake Taylor: The Indians.
Chaire Holloway: Here in Cleveland. I didn't know they still had a team?
Jake Taylor: Yeah. We have uniforms and everything, it's great.
Chaire Holloway: I heard that Ball players make a lot of money, how much you make?
Jake Taylor: I make the league minimum.

 

[holybuckeye33]

and my favorite, even though its not necessarily fitting...
Chaire Holloway: So, what team do you play for?
Jake Taylor: The Indians.
Chaire Holloway: Here in Cleveland. I didn't know they still had a team?
Jake Taylor: Yeah. We have uniforms and everything, it's great.
Chaire Holloway: I heard that Ball players make a lot of money, how much you make?
Jake Taylor: I guess that depends on how good you are.
Chaire Holloway: How good are you?
Jake Taylor: I make the league minimum.

FIFY

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

the Pirates don't have to spend the money the Yankees do.

but Jesus Christ, is it too much to ask them to at least attempt to keep up with the Brewers in spending?

Milwaukee is the smallest market MLB has to offer.
Noticeably smaller than Pittsburgh is.

The Brewers managed to spend $80mil on Payroll.

Pittsburgh is a bigger market than Cincinnati
the reds spent over $70 mil

that's 2 teams in their division in smaller markets spending more than double what the pirates are spending.
more than freaking double!!

when the smallest market in the league is that far ahead of you, you ain't even trying.

why would they try? unless they go Yankee/Red Sox crazy, they aren't winning. I wouldn't try either if the deck was stacked that hard against me.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

i'm told round these parts that i'm not suppose to care about historical championships and records, remember? So yeah, I'm still laughing at NY.

If the Yankees had only won the world series before cars were reliable modes of transportation, I'd agree with you.