2010 has 35 bowls - is that too many?

[Mike80]

too many bowls, not enough reason to care about 98% of them.

 

[Mike80]

5. My question remains: WTF are Chicago, Detroit, Minneapolis, Columbus, Omaha, Milwaukee? WTF are B1G ADs, coaches, fans?
6. Wake up! The Big 10 is the only conference without a chance of playing or winning a playoff game in their home region. There's a reason home teams are given +7 points by Vegas at the beginning of figuring the odds.

Since 5 and 6 are mostly related - you aren't going to see people streaming to outside games in December and January in the midwest and you'll never see a bowl game in Columbus simply because you'll have 80,000+ empty seats (and we aren't talking about some hypothetical playoff system).

As for the rest of those - Detroit already has a bowl game. Chicago would if they had an indoor stadium and I think Minneapolis had a bowl game at some point but it went away. Since none of these would be top tier games, unless you could attract a top school having a bad year to one of those games, it would also result is tens of thousands of empty seats and bad ratings.

 

[Zurp]

too many bowls, not enough reason to care about 98% of them.

I'd put that number closer to 75%. If there's 35 bowl games, I'm interested in the 5 BCS games, plus maybe 3 more. But I turn the TV on for as many as I can. I absolutely don't believe that there are "too many bowls", other than that making it to a bowl game used to be an impressive accomplishment. But now that all you need is 6 wins, it's not so impressive, anymore.

When the kids are in bed, and I have nothing going on, and there happens to be a bowl game on TV, I'm turning it on. I don't necessarily pay much attention to it, and if you ask me who won last night's game, I might not remember. But a bowl game between Eastern Cornhole State vs. Butt Hair Tech is more interesting to me than anything else on TV.

 

[ulukinatme]

But a bowl game between Eastern Cornhole State vs. Butt Hair Tech is more interesting to me than anything else on TV.

Butt Hair Tech's QB, Kyle Dingleberry, looks like he's going to have a monster year for the Klingons.

 

[LovelandBuckeye]

Butt Hair Tech's QB, Kyle Dingleberry, looks like he's going to have a monster year for the Klingons.

True, but the Eastern Cornhole State defense, led by MLB Jack Mehoff, will be hard to beat. Go ECS Giraffes!!! Beat BH Tech Klingons!!!!!!

 

[cincibuck]

Since 5 and 6 are mostly related - you aren't going to see people streaming to outside games in December and January in the midwest and you'll never see a bowl game in Columbus simply because you'll have 80,000+ empty seats (and we aren't talking about some hypothetical playoff system).

As for the rest of those - Detroit already has a bowl game. Chicago would if they had an indoor stadium and I think Minneapolis had a bowl game at some point but it went away. Since none of these would be top tier games, unless you could attract a top school having a bad year to one of those games, it would also result is tens of thousands of empty seats and bad ratings.

You and I have done this dance before.

I guess we'll continue to disagree. You seem to me to think in terms of taking in a football game while escaping Midwest winter, while I see it as abandoning the best interests of Big Ten and Ohio State football.

From my POV the empty seats are in warm weather sites too. At the same time I can't recall a BCS game that wasn't a sell out. My guess is that the importance of the game and the size of the fan bases that support the sort of school that got into a BCS bowl had more to do with attendance than location.

The arena games in Detroit and Minneapolis you refer to don't/didn't draw dick because they matched a fifth or sixth place Big Ten school with a MAC team. I simply don't buy that if the ADs of the Big Ten met with the CofC and mayor of Chicago and proposed a) breaking the contract with the Rose Bowl b) replacing it with a regional playoff game between top teams of two regions, that it wouldn't sell.

The Big 10 has not been well served by the Rose Bowl and many of the match ups that have been created by other bowls. They won't be served well by a playoff system in which they are perpetually the "away team." It's time to bring some of the pork home.

 

[Mike80]

You and I have done this dance before.

I guess we'll continue to disagree. You seem to me to think in terms of taking in a football game while escaping Midwest winter, while I see it as abandoning the best interests of Big Ten and Ohio State football.

From my POV the empty seats are in warm weather sites too. At the same time I can't recall a BCS game that wasn't a sell out. My guess is that the importance of the game and the size of the fan bases that support the sort of school that got into a BCS bowl had more to do with attendance than location.

The arena games in Detroit and Minneapolis you refer to don't/didn't draw dick because they matched a fifth or sixth place Big Ten school with a MAC team. I simply don't buy that if the ADs of the Big Ten met with the CofC and mayor of Chicago and proposed a) breaking the contract with the Rose Bowl b) replacing it with a regional playoff game between top teams of two regions, that it wouldn't sell.

The Big 10 has not been well served by the Rose Bowl and many of the match ups that have been created by other bowls. They won't be served well by a playoff system in which they are perpetually the "away team." It's time to bring some of the pork home.

This entire idea flies in the face of logic and tradition (not to mention reality)....They are fighting to stick with the Rose Bowl, not trying to break with it.

The reason you don't hear about the BCS Bowls not selling out is because it doesn't fit the narrative being sold by the national media. The Fiesta Bowl did not sell out last year and several Orange Bowls haven't either. What happens is the schools are left on the hook to pick up excess tickets. And in looking further, the Big Ten eats up unsold tickets for the schools in the conference - to the tune of $21 Million.

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201312/bcs-teams-struggling-ticket-allotment

They will end up needing to get other big name teams to join this fiasco for it to work, and last time I checked, the other big names are fat and happy with their current arrangements. I think the entire idea of trying to relegate the Big Ten to its own bowl system so that this perceived lack of equality is fixed will relegate the Big Ten even further down the totem pole. And no, it wouldn't sell. This isn't about Ohio State or scUM, both of whom had issues in and of their own selling their bowl allotments, it's about the Northworsterns, the MSUs, the Illinois, etc - teams without such rabid fan bases deciding to sit in the cold weather around the holidays playing against 3rd tier teams just because the Big Ten decided it didn't want to play in the Rose Bowl or the Florida games anymore.

No one would be happy with this arrangement and it would further diminish the Big Ten's already sagging reputation as a football power conference simply because no one would give them the credit they are due. Bad idea.

 

[cincibuck]

This entire idea flies in the face of logic and tradition (not to mention reality)....They are fighting to stick with the Rose Bowl, not trying to break with it.

If by 'reality' you mean that Ohio State fans should accept a system in which their Buckeyes must go into the South or West Coast to play in an NC game, something which does not guarantee financial reward for the school, but does guarantee income for the host region along with a shorter commute, fewer expenses, and site familiarity for the opponent and their fans... then, yes, I want to fly into the face of that reality. Furthermore, I can think of at least 4 times in my lifetime when Ohio State or Michigan lost national championships to USC or Stanford in games that might well have gone the other way were they played at a neutral or Midwest site.

The reason you don't hear about the BCS Bowls not selling out is because it doesn't fit the narrative being sold by the national media. The Fiesta Bowl did not sell out last year and several Orange Bowls haven't either. What happens is the schools are left on the hook to pick up excess tickets. And in looking further, the Big Ten eats up unsold tickets for the schools in the conference - to the tune of $21 Million.

From your own source the problem seems to be more of exactly what I'm arguing about the current bowls - dog shit match ups in which the fans from the North are supposed to pony up a bunch of money to watch their team play mostly for the economic benefit of the sun bowl regions.
http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201312/bcs-teams-struggling-ticket-allotment

Both teams playing in the Fiesta Bowl, Baylor and Central Florida, (who thought that match up was a money maker?) have returned thousands of unsold tickets from their 17,500 seat allotment. Baylor sold about 12,000 tickets while Central Florida managed to sell less than half of its allotment.

Perhaps more surprising is that Ohio State, a school whose tradition trumps both Baylor's and UCF's, is having a hard time ridding itself of a 17,500 ticket Orange Bowl allotment. According to the Toledo Blade, the Buckeyes have only sold about 7,000 tickets thus far.

That's not to say Ohio State fans won't be showing up in droves, but it may mean that fans are circumventing the school in search of better seats on the secondary market. The tickets being sold by Ohio State range between $90 and $240 while fans can easily find seats on Stubhub for half that price.

This isn't the first time in recent years that an Orange Bowl team has struggled to sell out its allotment. Last year Florida State sold less than half its allotment while Northern Illinois couldn't get rid of 7,000 tickets. In 2012 Clemson and West Virginia were forced to eat a combined total of more than 15,000 tickets.

They will end up needing to get other big name teams to join this fiasco for it to work, and last time I checked, the other big names are fat and happy with their current arrangements. I think the entire idea of trying to relegate the Big Ten to its own bowl system so that this perceived lack of equality is fixed will relegate the Big Ten even further down the totem pole. And no, it wouldn't sell. This isn't about Ohio State or scUM, both of whom had issues in and of their own selling their bowl allotments, it's about the Northworsterns, the MSUs, the Illinois, etc - teams without such rabid fan bases deciding to sit in the cold weather around the holidays playing against 3rd tier teams just because the Big Ten decided it didn't want to play in the Rose Bowl or the Florida games anymore.

Ohio State and Michigan fans aren't buying into the system - buying $90 to $240 tickets to sit in the end zone and far corners of the upper decks - while the corporate and locals sit between the 30s. Maybe you can fill the stadium by having a playoff for the heart of football country - ACC, SEC, Oklahoma and Texas can continue to sit at home and drive next door for a New Years Day game. But the Big Ten doesn't owe them a huge payoff. Same for the PAC 8/10/12/14. It's time for the Big Ten to stop putting a "kick me" sign on their backs. If TV wants product, TV can get on board with something more equitable. If the football world wants a "true championship playoff" they can come up with something national in scope and equitable to ALL participants, not just those with a family beach package to sell.

No one would be happy with this arrangement and it would further diminish the Big Ten's already sagging reputation as a football power conference simply because no one would give them the credit they are due. Bad idea.

How does traveling halfway across the country EVERY year benefit the reputation of the Big Ten, the economic status of the region and the Ohio State fan base and football program? That, in my opinion, is The bad idea. As Patton might say, "Football championships are not made by being miserable and getting screwed by the local Chamber of Commerce. Football championships are won by making the other guy get off his ass, travel a bit, put up in a motel, eat in restaurants that don't have grits on the menu, sit in cold weather, pay $100 to sit in the end zone, and put up with locals that don't shout SEC, SEC,SEC!!!."

 

[Zurp]

How does traveling halfway across the country EVERY year benefit the reputation of the Big Ten, the economic status of the region and the Ohio State fan base and football program? That, in my opinion, is The bad idea. As Patton might say, "Football championships are not made by being miserable and getting screwed by the local Chamber of Commerce. Football championships are won by making the other guy get off his ass, travel a bit, put up in a motel, eat in restaurants that don't have grits on the menu, sit in cold weather, pay $100 to sit in the end zone, and put up with locals that don't shout SEC, SEC,SEC!!!."

As a guy who's never been in favor of a playoff, I just want to say that the worst thing about the existing playoff format is the lack of home-field advantage for the seeded teams. Fans don't want to sit in the cold weather?!? F that! Green Bay used to play home playoff games annually. While I don't know the attendance numbers, I'm guessing the place isn't empty.

 

[Mike80]

If by 'reality' you mean that Ohio State fans should accept a system in which their Buckeyes must go into the South or West Coast to play in an NC game, something which does not guarantee financial reward for the school, but does guarantee income for the host region along with a shorter commute, fewer expenses, and site familiarity for the opponent and their fans... then, yes, I want to fly into the face of that reality. Furthermore, I can think of at least 4 times in my lifetime when Ohio State or Michigan lost national championships to USC or Stanford in games that might well have gone the other way were they played at a neutral or Midwest site.



From your own source the problem seems to be more of exactly what I'm arguing about the current bowls - dog [Mark May] match ups in which the fans from the North are supposed to pony up a bunch of money to watch their team play mostly for the economic benefit of the sun bowl regions.
http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201312/bcs-teams-struggling-ticket-allotment


Ohio State and Michigan fans aren't buying into the system - buying $90 to $240 tickets to sit in the end zone and far corners of the upper decks - while the corporate and locals sit between the 30s. Maybe you can fill the stadium by having a playoff for the heart of football country - ACC, SEC, Oklahoma and Texas can continue to sit at home and drive next door for a New Years Day game. But the Big Ten doesn't owe them a huge payoff. Same for the PAC 8/10/12/14. It's time for the Big Ten to stop putting a "kick me" sign on their backs. If TV wants product, TV can get on board with something more equitable. If the football world wants a "true championship playoff" they can come up with something national in scope and equitable to ALL participants, not just those with a family beach package to sell.
How does traveling halfway across the country EVERY year benefit the reputation of the Big Ten, the economic status of the region and the Ohio State fan base and football program? That, in my opinion, is The bad idea. As Patton might say, "Football championships are not made by being miserable and getting screwed by the local Chamber of Commerce. Football championships are won by making the other guy get off his ass, travel a bit, put up in a motel, eat in restaurants that don't have grits on the menu, sit in cold weather, pay $100 to sit in the end zone, and put up with locals that don't shout SEC, SEC,SEC!!!."

Here's the deal - I am specifically NOT talking about a playoff. I am talking about the current bowl system as was requested by the mods 2-3 pages ago. If we're talking about a playoff type system then hell frikin yes they need to have games at the home field of the better seeded team and that goes without saying.

But throwing bowls into cold weather sites under the current system is a blunder that won't ever happen because the corporate dollars you're complaining about won't materialize not to mention the casual fans just won't care unless they are interested in the novelty.

 

[cincibuck]

Here's the deal - I am specifically NOT talking about a playoff. I am talking about the current bowl system as was requested by the mods 2-3 pages ago. If we're talking about a playoff type system then hell frikin yes they need to have games at the home field of the better seeded team and that goes without saying.

But throwing bowls into cold weather sites under the current system is a blunder that won't ever happen because the corporate dollars you're complaining about won't materialize not to mention the casual fans just won't care unless they are interested in the novelty.

1. This thread begins in 2010. Much has changed in the bowl format since then. Therefore the premiss - are 35 bowl games too many? - no longer stands
2. Thread jacking is a big sport here on BP.
3. I'm even older than BB73 so I don't have to play by the rules.
4. One of the problems with the BCS system was that it got thread jacked by the existing bowls, enterprises more concerned with making money for the sunbelt tourism industry than in producing a National Champion(ship).
5. A bowl game doesn't need butts in the stands in order to "make money." So if Purdue and Kentucky wanted to answer the age-old question of which conference produces the suckiest team(s), a game could be set up in a northern site to answer that question.
6. Now that 2010 is in our rear-view mirror, let's make sure that the new playoff system contains some equity for teams north of the Mason-Dixon Line and east of the Rockies. This is something our AD and the other Big Ten ADs haven't been willing to take on. Perhaps as Ord has suggested, because the present system provides them with a beach house and a blow job in Bimini.

 

[maximumblitz]

Was the B1G championship game sold out? I assume so.

 

[cincibuck]

Was the B1G championship game sold out? I assume so.

I am loath to suggest that any form of arena ball was successful, but this year's Big Ten CCG was. So was the game between Wiscy and Sparty. I'm not sure about the Wisconsin - Nebraska game of two years ago.

Mike80 would quickly point out - correctly - that previous bowl games played in the Silverdome and the Metrodome featuring MAC and bowl eligible Big 10 teams have not sold out.

To me, this says more about the quality of the product offered than about the viability of a Midwest bowl game on a real football field. Packers and Bears games have sold out in November, December and January despite snow and freezing weather and Bengals tickets often go begging in September and October. But then the Packers and the Bears tend to put a better product on the field than Mikey Boy Brown, and the games usually have something to say about who moves on and who calls it a season. Again, why shell out money to watch a game that has little going for it other being more interesting than "reality shows" when you can sit in the comfort of your home and watch it from the 50 yard line, with instant replays, close ups and craft beer at a price you're willing to pay?

 

[TampaBuckeyes]

At what point do universities with 50/50 records and a fan base that has already given up or a school so small they can't fill up a home stadium giving the tickets away say no. Schools lose 100s of thousands of dollars in these deals sending their players and band to god knows where to get the notoriety of playing in the Joe Bobs Towing bowl in front of a raging crowd of 2300.

 

[cincibuck]

At what point do universities with 50/50 records and a fan base that has already given up or a school so small they can't fill up a home stadium giving the tickets away say no. Schools lose 100s of thousands of dollars in these deals sending their players and band to god knows where to get the notoriety of playing in the Joe Bobs Towing bowl in front of a raging crowd of 2300.

There's no such thing as bad publicity? I wonder how the Amos Alonzo Stagg Bowl playoff series keeps going, but it does.