2009 tOSU Offense Discussion

[leroyjenkins]

What's going to change though?

Coach Tressel's philosophy has been strong defense, opportunistic special teams and mistake free offense. The punt is the most important play in football.

Does anyone really think he's going to bring in some gunslinger looking to put 50 on the board every game?

I'd be excited about a new OL coach though.

Who knows whats going to change? I dont need 50 pts a game. But I do need, a Nasty, Disciplined OL that sustains blocks, and makes some holes.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

Ohio St. Football Ranking Summary

rushing off 48th
passing off 101
total off 91st
scoring off 57th

 

[BuckeyeTillIDie]

But I do need, a Nasty, Disciplined OL that sustains blocks, and makes some holes.

Exactly. A line where you can have faith to run it out of a power formation at least one time from the 3 yard line.

 

[Zander42]

Exactly. A line where you can have faith to run it out of a power formation at least one time from the 3 yard line.

I'd settle for a line where you would have reasonable confidence that you won't be 1st and 15. But I'm easy to please.

 

[OHSportsFan]

Not sure if you are being serious here, but after going back and rewatching I thought a decision that really killed us, was our drive after the TD. We put Cordle and Hall in at tackle. Cordle and Hall were each beat once, this was the drive when Boren got called for the block in the back...

The line is not blocking great, but they are just pinning their ears back, run blitzing and blitzing and with a young line those things are hard to pick up.

We gotta find a way to stretch the D or we will conitnue to struggle with run and pass blocking...But teams being able to play the 4-4 look with a cover 1, should not be happening with guys like Posey, Dane, and Carter on the outside.

I specifically remember saying to my dad "Is that 64 at left tackle there? Yeah? I don't like it"

I thought the O had some momentum with the guys that had just scored, stick with what worked.

 

[MaxBuck]

... I do need, a Nasty, Disciplined OL that sustains blocks, and makes some holes.

I don't care if the line is as nasty as Teletubbies and as disciplined as Jeff Conaway if they can reliably open holes and get us first downs.

 

[Mike80]

I would like to see a return to a more traditional offensive set. I think having Pryor taking snaps in the shotgun is too predictable at times.

I also think that would improve the mindset of the offensive linemen, i.e. put them back into their comfort-zone. I don't think they are all that comfortable in blocking a spread scheme right now.

It's getting colder now, and it's time for a more run-first oriented offense anyway. I think it needs to be said that if TP wants to be an NFL QB, he needs to be able to run the offense from under center as well as in the shotgun.

 

[korchiki]

Clearly there are some offensive problems that we need to work out but this is getting ridiculous. A few weeks ago people were complaining about lining up in too many formations and that the shotgun formation is where Pryor and the offense would be best. Now I am hearing that shotgun is not the answer and that we need to go back to more of a pro style offense and run out of the I.

Here is my point. No doubt there are some problems that need to be fixed...and quickly. Is it the play calling or the execution or lack of coaching? Is it Pryor's need to make every play "big play" or the Offensive Lines inconsistency on pass protection? Is it that the loss of Beanie is hurting us more than we expected? Is it the fact that our best players are all underclassmen which is resulting in maturity/lack of discipline issues?

I am not going to pretend like I know what the problem is. I am not going to sit here and make recommendations because the coaches and just about everyone else know more about schemes than I do. However what I will do is make one more point. As a high school coach (hockey) the two most difficult aspects of coaching are teaching kids how to finish less talented team off when you have them down and the confidence/swagger that is necessary to win in the big games. By swagger I don't mean "The U" of old, but rather getting the players to realize that they can/will/should win the game if they follow the gameplan we design.

I am not going to overreact to the loss against Purdue (although IMO it was top 3 the worst losses in JT era with the Florida game and Northwestern a few years back) because this seems to be a rare slip up. But even in the wins this year and years past we have not finished teams off like we should have. Sure you can bring up IU a few years ago but lets be honest we should crush teams like that. That is what needs to be expected out of our fans and more importantly our players and coaches.

End rant...Go Bucks!

 

[Bill Lucas]

Run the damned ball! I don't care what set you run out of but run it and run it with the intention to pick up meaningful yards every time you run it. Then line up and run it again. Turn it upfield and take the 3-5 yard gains. Who knows, a tackle might get broken and that 3-5 might turn into 15-20 which is something that can't happen if you are running east and west.

Use the run to set up the pass. You can't use the pass to set up the run if your passer is still a work in progress.

 

[zincfinger]

Run the damned ball! I don't care what set you run out of but run it and run it with the intention to pick up meaningful yards every time you run it. Then line up and run it again. Turn it upfield and take the 3-5 yard gains. Who knows, a tackle might get broken and that 3-5 might turn into 15-20 which is something that can't happen if you are running east and west.

Use the run to set up the pass. You can't use the pass to set up the run if your passer is still a work in progress.

I agree with you to a significant extent, in that I think Saine is capable of doing a good deal more than he's been asked to do so far. I'm not sure that Saine, or even the entire TB roster sans Herron, has 40 decent between-the-tackles rushes per game in them, but I think they could rush the ball to good effect more frequently than they've been asked to recently. The irony is that a lot of fans (not you necessarily, but a lot) were calling as little as a week ago for OSU to "open it up" on offense. As always, this is a completely non-specific request, but it seems to generally mean something along the lines of, "throw the ball more". Well they've tried that and it was a failure. Part of the reason, from my perspective, is that the pass blocking needs to improve. And along those lines, just as one can say that OSU "should" be able to run the ball reasonably effectively against most opponents, even when the defense strongly suspects a run, OSU "should" be able to pass block reasonably effectively against most opponents even when the defense strongly suspects a pass. Right now, they can't. But tying it back to your point, I think the pass-protection will improve to some extent if the defense is forced to respect the run, which Purdue was never really forced to do.

 

[RB07OSU]

When I was watching the offense, I was always thinking "We need to get off some rocket screens like Purdue is getting." We have Ray Small, Lamar Thomas, Dane, etc. that could be effective with it. Finally we ran one and it got stuffed in the backfield, while the receivers looked back at their missed blocks. While one could point to execution, you could also say it looks as if we don't practice those types of plays enough to be succesful with them. It looks as if this offense is built to either go deep to Posey or Dane, a deep out to Carter, or a short curl with Small. Either that or Pryor is only looking for those reads.

My example is going to be Cincinnati for the offense that impresses me the most. Pike is a great QB and Gilyard is a phenomenal receiver. But notice how D.J. Woods and Binns perform at WR...the short rocket screens are executed well nearly every time and the receivers block it up right. It's not that these three receivers are any more talented or better blockers than ours, we just don't look comfortable doing it because I doubt we really work on it that much. The same can be said with the short to intermediate pass game across the middle, which is another area that Cincy accels in. For that matter, Purdue excels at it too. Getting that 3rd down and 5 or 6 once or twice a drive is huge, whether you score or not. So many times we go 3 and out in those situations and the defense doesn't get a chance to blink. To be fair to the staff, Pryor looks terribly uncomfortable in the pocket and it's hard to throw across the middle when your QB is looking to scramble outside. Either way you throw the blame, if Terrelle isn't prepared to get the ball to receivers working the middle of the field, zone blitzes will work all day long.

 

[Merih]

When I was watching the offense, I was always thinking "We need to get off some rocket screens like Purdue is getting." We have Ray Small, Lamar Thomas, Dane, etc. that could be effective with it. Finally we ran one and it got stuffed in the backfield, while the receivers looked back at their missed blocks. While one could point to execution, you could also say it looks as if we don't practice those types of plays enough to be succesful with them. It looks as if this offense is built to either go deep to Posey or Dane, a deep out to Carter, or a short curl with Small. Either that or Pryor is only looking for those reads.

My example is going to be Cincinnati for the offense that impresses me the most. Pike is a great QB and Gilyard is a phenomenal receiver. But notice how D.J. Woods and Binns perform at WR...the short rocket screens are executed well nearly every time and the receivers block it up right. It's not that these three receivers are any more talented or better blockers than ours, we just don't look comfortable doing it because I doubt we really work on it that much. The same can be said with the short to intermediate pass game across the middle, which is another area that Cincy accels in. For that matter, Purdue excels at it too. Getting that 3rd down and 5 or 6 once or twice a drive is huge, whether you score or not. So many times we go 3 and out in those situations and the defense doesn't get a chance to blink. To be fair to the staff, Pryor looks terribly uncomfortable in the pocket and it's hard to throw across the middle when your QB is looking to scramble outside. Either way you throw the blame, if Terrelle isn't prepared to get the ball to receivers working the middle of the field, zone blitzes will work all day long.

Something that people sometimes skim over is that maybe our WR's aren't as competent at blocking for screens. We have run some bubble screens in the past and they are so reliant on a WR getting a good block that they almost never worked. Unless you run them to RRod number of attempts, then you're bound to pop one every now and then. But then its at the expense of balance and unpredictability in the offense.

 

[RB07OSU]

Something that people sometimes skim over is that maybe our WR's aren't as competent at blocking for screens. We have run some bubble screens in the past and they are so reliant on a WR getting a good block that they almost never worked. Unless you run them to RRod number of attempts, then you're bound to pop one every now and then. But then its at the expense of balance and unpredictability in the offense.

That's actually what I was trying to say. Our receivers aren't executing the blocks to get positive gains but I just think we aren't practicing it enough, because our receivers (especially Posey and Carter) should be able to block it up right. I fail to believe that Cincy and Purdue's receivers are better natural blockers than ours.

 

[Merih]

That's actually what I was trying to say. Our receivers aren't executing the blocks to get positive gains but I just think we aren't practicing it enough, because our receivers (especially Posey and Carter) should be able to block it up right. I fail to believe that Cincy and Purdue's receivers are better natural blockers than ours.

Well just to make clear my "some people" statement was not referring to you. I've read many of your posts before and you know football.

What we used to do on my team was flex TE's out to the boundary to block for the bubble screen. Much higher success rate. I think the success rate jumped like 45%. I ran numbers for my alma mater post graduation (thought I might become a coach a while ago).

 

[CalvinistBuck]

When I was watching the offense, I was always thinking "We need to get off some rocket screens like Purdue is getting." We have Ray Small, Lamar Thomas, Dane, etc. that could be effective with it. Finally we ran one and it got stuffed in the backfield, while the receivers looked back at their missed blocks. While one could point to execution, you could also say it looks as if we don't practice those types of plays enough to be succesful with them. It looks as if this offense is built to either go deep to Posey or Dane, a deep out to Carter, or a short curl with Small. Either that or Pryor is only looking for those reads.

My example is going to be Cincinnati for the offense that impresses me the most. Pike is a great QB and Gilyard is a phenomenal receiver. But notice how D.J. Woods and Binns perform at WR...the short rocket screens are executed well nearly every time and the receivers block it up right. It's not that these three receivers are any more talented or better blockers than ours, we just don't look comfortable doing it because I doubt we really work on it that much. The same can be said with the short to intermediate pass game across the middle, which is another area that Cincy accels in. For that matter, Purdue excels at it too. Getting that 3rd down and 5 or 6 once or twice a drive is huge, whether you score or not. So many times we go 3 and out in those situations and the defense doesn't get a chance to blink. To be fair to the staff, Pryor looks terribly uncomfortable in the pocket and it's hard to throw across the middle when your QB is looking to scramble outside. Either way you throw the blame, if Terrelle isn't prepared to get the ball to receivers working the middle of the field, zone blitzes will work all day long.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I've talked to two other HS coaches and this seems to be their take as well. Good post.