2009 tOSU Offense Discussion

[Taosman]

As much as people want to hang it all on TP, the WRs have had a lot of drops this year. Does anyone keep that stat? Posey, particularly seems to be struggling. :( Posey had so much hype, but he's still on the learning curve. And if TP doesn't go through his progressions or has time to, it all falls apart.

 

[cbrian815]

As much as people want to hang it all on TP, the WRs have had a lot of drops this year. Does anyone keep that stat? Posey, particularly seems to be struggling. :( Posey had so much hype, but he's still on the learning curve. And if TP doesn't go through his progressions or has time to, it all falls apart.

Posey might want to get that taken care of soon...... I haven`t seen much of Washington after his drops. Seems like we have some real talent at WR....Sanz, Small and Carter don`t seem to have the dropsies. I agree with the poster above it sure would be nice to see our WR`s hang onto the ball a little better. We have just been so hot and cold this year on offense. Hopefully we see some consistency soon...some long sustaining drives would be nice....this year its 3 and out or 3 plays in 1 minute for a TD. Go Bucks

 

[BuckNut65]

When I look at what the offense has morphed into this year I get the sense that the coaching staff really didn't know what we were capable of. I get the sense that TP has demonstrated to the coaching staff that he understands the concepts of the offense but the big question is whether he could apply in during a live game situation.
And what we are seeing is a guy who can do the things that he has prepared for and practiced against but struggles when those things are different. It's like being able to do all of the example questions in the textbook and showing up for the test and seeing that none of the questions match the examples. When the light bulb goes off and he can apply what he knows you are going to see this offense take off.

 

[Poe McKnoe]

While we wait for TP to overcome his shortcomings (or, quite possibly, grow to meet our hype-influenced expectations) and the young receivers to mature, we can continue to expect an adventure on offense when tOSU faces a tough defense.

I question which tough defenses you are talking about? Ohio State hasn't faced a murders' row of defensive opponents in the past year and a half (outside of USC x2 and sort of Penn State).

 

[t_BuckeyeScott]

As I've been pondering the offense I've been thinking about what exactly Pryor's struggles have been. Then I was listening to the Buckeyextra podcast and I think Ken Gordon mentioned it too. It's the short 10 yards and under passes. I actually think there are 2 primary problems with Pryor. First its the presnap reads. On the interception and the near interception in the first half all the routes were designed to go near the first down marker. Pryor had to figure out where he was going with the ball before the snap as the plays and especially the routes weren't designed to last long enough to make multiple reads. I also think more obviously he struggles with his mechanics on these short throws. Think about how many quick slants he has overthrown compared to how many 20 yard routes he has overthrown. In fact some of Pryor's best throws have been around that length. The longer slants to Dane and Posey earlier this year for TDs are great examples. I actually think Pryor has been better as post snap than pre snap reads. Why this is, I don't know. I only know what I see.

I think this also leads into some discussion of play design/ calling. I tend to believe that the short routes on the 3rd and 7 plays have become increasingly predictable allowing defenses to jump those routes. However, if JT doesn't feel the line can protect long enough for more intermediate routs on 3rd and 7 I can see why he would call the short ones. Even still I'm not sure I like 4 receivers all running slants, square outs and ins to the same depth is fantastic design anyway. You look around football and I see receivers running to different depths most of the time. I don't see that from Ohio State. But I think its obvious where Pryor's strength throwing the ball is. I'm not sure there is any easy solution to the problem.

 

[Merih]

I actually think Pryor has been better as post snap than pre snap reads. Why this is, I don't know. I only know what I see.

Some of that can be helped with getting the plays in faster. Oftentimes he gets the play with 5-6 seconds left on the playclock and has to just snap it.

 

[CalvinistBuck]

I question which tough defenses you are talking about? Ohio State hasn't faced a murders' row of defensive opponents in the past year and a half (outside of USC x2 and sort of Penn State).

The offense has typically managed to score points against inferior defenses. Purdue last season was certainly a dramatic exception.

Indeed, I agree that the offense has struggled to produce consistently. (And, I still think we had the playmakers on offense to beat USC by two TDs!) However, it is incumbent upon our opponents to specifically prepare for tOSU offense and scheme accordingly. Getting into the endzone is never easy.

To be fair, Wisconsin proved to have a tough defense. They disguised their coverages well enough that TP had difficulty detecting man versus zone. They generally protected the edges and their LBs were also patient enough to make short passes over the middle more difficult. They dared the Buckeye offense to pass and they could not deliver.

I am not defending the quality of the Buckeye offense as much as I am saying that this is what we have right now. I am aware that this is being reduced to something that resembles a cliche, but I am confident (hopeful?) that we have the playmakers to improve. More effective coaching and better execution is the only thing that will bring consistency to this offense.

 

[BuckNut65]

We have three weeks to gain some momentum on offense. Regardless of what happened last weekend, the true test is going to be in Happy Valley on Nov. 7. Definitely the best defense in the Big 10 next to ours.

 

[NateG]

To be honest the offensive struggles have come from a mixture of issues that are notorious of young players. Technique on the line... routes(being lazy and also not sitting in zones)... Pryor's mechanics... not feeling comfortable(at least he doesn't look comfortable) and rushing passes... dropping passes.... not hitting holes opened by the line(couple of times with how hard Saine and Herron run they still get 4-5 yards)... Bad reads in the read option and passing.... All of these issues can be fixed with reps. When the offense executes correctly, though, you see it in the 3-6 play drives for 80+ yards for a TD. Even the drive at the end of the 3rd into the 4th was on the move until Schoffield made that play on 3rd and 2. Pryor beats him he might have scored a TD. Either way, the offense should get enough reps in the next 3 games, against essentially 3 scout team defenses, to get good solid game reps. Hopefully working out some of the timing issues and read issues. And getting Cordle and Miller back to give the line a blow like the D line gets should help.

 

[Woody1968]

To be honest the offensive struggles have come from a mixture of issues that are notorious of young players. Technique on the line... routes(being lazy and also not sitting in zones)... Pryor's mechanics... not feeling comfortable(at least he doesn't look comfortable) and rushing passes... dropping passes.... not hitting holes opened by the line(couple of times with how hard Saine and Herron run they still get 4-5 yards)... Bad reads in the read option and passing.... All of these issues can be fixed with reps. When the offense executes correctly, though, you see it in the 3-6 play drives for 80+ yards for a TD. Even the drive at the end of the 3rd into the 4th was on the move until Schoffield made that play on 3rd and 2. Pryor beats him he might have scored a TD. Either way, the offense should get enough reps in the next 3 games, against essentially 3 scout team defenses, to get good solid game reps. Hopefully working out some of the timing issues and read issues. And getting Cordle and Miller back to give the line a blow like the D line gets should help.

I like our chances with the tougher games at the end of the year. I think the Offense will be ready to go for those games, if not lights out. I certainly think the execution will be better and mistakes reduced.

 

[lord vegas]

I watch the games and wonder why it seems like TP locks in on his target too soon, notice that he doesn't utilize pump fakes, sometimes has poor mechanics on short throws, could improve his overall decision-making... but, it's not like the coaches don't notice this also.

TP actually looked off the safety to throw his lone TD against Wisky. He froze the safety by staring down another WR then like a vet tossed to the corner for Posey at the last second. So TP is learning and understanding certain things the defense was trying to do and figuring out ways to defeat it. Its just his bag of tricks is pretty small right now. It might be a slow process but the gears are turning.

I like our chances with the tougher games at the end of the year. I think the Offense will be ready to go for those games, if not lights out. I certainly think the execution will be better and mistakes reduced.

Exactly my thoughts. By the bowl game our offense might not be Texas Tech but we'll move the ball. If you think about it, this is the first year he's faced teams that absolutely know what he can do. He's not surprising anyone with his speed, throwing, etc... Teams will have wonderful gameplans to stop the offense this year for that very reason. The uglier the offense is week to week it means teams are throwing out various defensive wrinkles which in theory should make TP (and O) that much better of a QB (and offense) in the long run. By seasons end playing 7 in the box focused on contain should be suicide for the D against us.

 

[buckcfd]

Mix up the tempo of the Offense.

The better Defenses we've seen have slowed down the O. I think a lot of folks can agree with that. These Defenses have been able to confuse TP with coverages and formations because the predictability of the playcalling verses the personnel tOSU has on the field and the formations. Our O goes to the huddle, makes the substitutions, and gives the Defense time to create the match-ups and looks that THEY want. tOSU Offense is giving them everything our opponents see on film all week. Just yesterday, JT was quoted as saying TP's biggest weakness right now is his ability to adjust to something he has not seen on tape. IMHO, this is a problem that isn't going to be fixed in a couple of weeks and is all part of his overall development.

When the O has needed points in a hurry this year, they've been able to get them (mostly in 2 minute situations with the no huddle). TP has EXCELLED in these situations because now the Offense dictates the defensive formation, playing right into TP's strengths. tOSU's Offense creates the match-ups and formations that THEY want, not the other way around . I know this goes against everything that JT stands for with an overall offensive game strategy, but we're going to be playing against some really good defenses comming up in a couple of weeks. Mix up the tempo with the no huddle to put defenses on their "heels" (especially in the red zone, somewhat of an achillies heel for us this year).

Anyone else seeing this, or am I off base?

 

[cbrian815]

Mix up the tempo of the Offense.

The better Defenses we've seen have slowed down the O. I think a lot of folks can agree with that. These Defenses have been able to confuse TP with coverages and formations because the predictability of the playcalling verses the personnel tOSU has on the field and the formations. Our O goes to the huddle, makes the substitutions, and gives the Defense time to create the match-ups and looks that THEY want. tOSU Offense is giving them everything they see on film all week. Just yesterday, JT was quoted as saying TP's biggest weakness right now is his ability to adjust to something he has not seen on tape. IMHO, this is a problem that isn't going to be fixed in a couple of weeks and is all part of his overall development.

When the O has needed points in a hurry this year, they've been able to get them (mostly in 2 minute situations with the no huddle). TP has EXCELLED in these situations because now the Offense dictates the defensive formation, playing right into TP's strengths. tOSU's Offense creates the match-ups and formations that THEY want, not the other way around . I know this goes against everything that JT stands for with an overall offensive game strategy, but we're going to be playing against some really good defenses comming up in a couple of weeks. Mix up the temp to put defenses on their "heels" (especially in the red zone, somewhat of an achillies heel for us this year).

Anyone else seeing this, or am I off base?

This is the exact stuff Speils was saying on the fan. He thinks we need to go hurry up 3 times or so a half and attack defenses. Herbie agreed but thought that TP should just run the read option like RR would have done with him.

I think you are right and we get much more effective when we go quick. I think we are all dreaming because this just doesn`t fit JT`s style of play. JT`s philosophy is to NOT turn the ball over....don`t put the defense in a bad position with offense. He wants to shorten the game especially with a great defense. I don`t think running a fast no hunddle offense will happen here....not unless the game situation dictates it. I am usually wrong so who knows maybe next week JT trys it to see how well it works. JT did do a quick offense at times in 2006 with TS.

I personally think JT rides this defense all the way this year....much like 2002 just win...even ugly and go on to your next game. I expect a lot of close games to finish the year....maybe like 2002 we win out. Go Bucks

 

[NateG]

Mix up the tempo of the Offense.

The better Defenses we've seen have slowed down the O. I think a lot of folks can agree with that. These Defenses have been able to confuse TP with coverages and formations because the predictability of the playcalling verses the personnel tOSU has on the field and the formations. Our O goes to the huddle, makes the substitutions, and gives the Defense time to create the match-ups and looks that THEY want. tOSU Offense is giving them everything our opponents see on film all week. Just yesterday, JT was quoted as saying TP's biggest weakness right now is his ability to adjust to something he has not seen on tape. IMHO, this is a problem that isn't going to be fixed in a couple of weeks and is all part of his overall development.

When the O has needed points in a hurry this year, they've been able to get them (mostly in 2 minute situations with the no huddle). TP has EXCELLED in these situations because now the Offense dictates the defensive formation, playing right into TP's strengths. tOSU's Offense creates the match-ups and formations that THEY want, not the other way around . I know this goes against everything that JT stands for with an overall offensive game strategy, but we're going to be playing against some really good defenses comming up in a couple of weeks. Mix up the tempo with the no huddle to put defenses on their "heels" (especially in the red zone, somewhat of an achillies heel for us this year).

Anyone else seeing this, or am I off base?

The next 3 weeks should give TP the chance to read defenses on the fly against teams were the talent margin is dramatically greater. Now that he is starting to make adjustments at the line( First time I noticed it was against Indiana), he should be able to learn to exploit a defense. The hurry up helps because it keeps defensive personnel from switching in and out and limits the types of defenses they can play, but the offense needs to get to a point where they can execute to a good degree whether the D is switching around or not. It all comes with seeing things more... more reps. I have no clue how good State Penn and Iowa are on defense(who have they played that is offensively superior?). Yeah it will be a tough enviornment in HV, but TP haws handled tough environments before. And neither team has shut down a viable offense yet. I think the "gelling" process makes large strides in the next 3 weeks offensively and by the time State Penn is next on the schedule, the offense will at least have an identity and be consistent enough for a win. The D only needs 14-21 points each of the last 6 weeks. Definitely doable.

 

[NateG]

It doesn't have to be a hurry up offense, just a no huddle. It doesn't allow the defense to make as many defensive changes. Texas did it in the bowl game against us when we were dominating them and it got them the lead back. It was just a no huddle and then they would get the play off quick when they all got set. It creates a agressive feel on O and a (sorry for the pun) Defensive mentality on D. The D starts to catch plays instead of attack.