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2008 tOSU Special Teams discussion (official thread)

The blocking went downhill in 06 imo, Teddy made the most of less opportunities, but there was a definite dropoff from the blocking in 05.

Pretorious also needs to work on getting his kicks up. Some of those blocks could have been avoided.
 
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jwinslow;1219984; said:
The blocking went downhill in 06 imo, Teddy made the most of less opportunities, but there was a definite dropoff from the blocking in 05.

Pretorious also needs to work on getting his kicks up. Some of those blocks could have been avoided.

it will be interesting to see if pettrey can win the pk job because i believe his kicks are not as low as pretorious and therefore we should not have as many kicks blocked.

of course i could be waaaaaaaay off base :biggrin:
 
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jwinslow;1219984; said:
The blocking went downhill in 06 imo, Teddy made the most of less opportunities, but there was a definite dropoff from the blocking in 05.

Pretorious also needs to work on getting his kicks up. Some of those blocks could have been avoided.

Just a younger(inexperienced) group of blockers? Or something more?
 
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I hope Brandon Saine and Small are on KO and Hartline and Small on PR. Other than the Ginn era we've had terrible national ranks in the return game. Now is not the time to get Mo Wells some work. We need our best athletes out there. Jamo, Saine, Small we need our best people out there. Before Ginn in the Maurice Hall, Troy Smith Return era we struggled as well. Not sure if it's the blocking but we need the people that give us teh best chance.
 
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maybe we could better discuss special teams, as it is as lonely as the chaff that innundates offense and defense...is deep. Stats aside, i suggest our ST returners and blockers/tacklers have performed consistently poorly compared to two basic factors: player talent; and, coaching statements about how important special teams are...are. >possible factors in consistently poor special teams: ****a merry go round of who's in charge of ST: from a coach for every aspect to a committee of coaches, we've illustrated that 'having the ingredients' of motivated, sound, hard working staff does not = 'having' good special team performance...let alone the 'excellence' that's the MINIMUM performance goal of every part of JT's program. ****lack of ST identity and cohesion. Neither buzz nor mantras nor insider reports nor media have provided info that suggests this group, or parts thereof...has formed its own 'identity'. No ID = no 'buy in' to something greater than...every man for himself. "Doing time" or "taking one for the team" on ST is a world apart...from 'excellence' and 'making a vital contribution'. ****are return [and other] ST positions more a reward to for backups and seniority...than playing the best guy? One could make that case. Interestingly, in 2005 when we tried PT players e.g. AJ Hawk and Bobby Carpenter, at ST coverage...did we do 'better'? Dunno...but i didn't see it. ****ST returns & coverage are ST subareas played in the greatest space, in space. Traditionally, tosu O & D mindsets value strength and size over speed and agility. In terms of the science of phyiscs in general and resultant force in particular...the greater the contested space, the geometrically greater the potential advantage to agility over strength. This suggests that both psychologically and preferentially, 'in space' football is not our strongest coach or player suit. ****an ironic and recurring 'trend': 'big hits' on coverage...do the kids get 'em more than the vets? [bellisari...carpenter the younger...rolle...] ****attitude picture: compare the zest and test of the "Hoot 'n Holler" drill...to any 'in-space' tackle or TD drill. [ouch?] ****coaching: it appears our coaches tend to equate "trust" with age, age with reliability, reliability with PT. This is not uncommon at all; however, it is a risk-avoidance rather than risk-taking approach. Kinda like saying, "don't think or relate outside the box because the unknown is risky". ****follow up on advantaging: remember the recent year the coaches tried 2 PR's? This simple change...dynamically changed the blocking options v the 'gunners' as well as the PR's vulnerability and initial move options. Yet did we maintain that initiative as coverages adapted? Nope. So, even when we show ourselves a way...we don't stick with THE PROCESS the created that temporary relative advantage. ****do we leave return results [and responsibility] to the 'gotoguy'? I.E. Ted is great, let Ted do it? Hmmm. Then, another irony: how did Ted start at his performance top, and work his statistical way down the next 2 years? How did our HyperWorldClassTerror...do less and less with more and more experience? Why did JT say Ted DIDN'T play early his frosh year due to 'inexperience'...then...shall we say, "suddenly appeared" vs MSU late in the game and once, twice, thrice RIP EM A NEW ONE? ---hypothesis: if one studies 'relationships' in the sense Coach T uses the term...where does that process suggest we go in ST?
 
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Buckeneye;1220427; said:
I see no issue in trying to build that trust against a few different opponents.
Lets see what he can do against YSU or Ohio.
regardless of what i do or do not see...on the wall of the WHAC there used to be a sign that read: "what are you going to do, NOW?" This suggests to me, as JT shows he is an exceptional Walker of His Talk, that JT teams do not play a Mr. "Generally".
 
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Flash, and anybody else, will have plenty of chances to earn the trust of the coaches during August camp. If he proves he can reliably judge and catch the ball, then I think his natural instincts and ability will make him an ideal punt and kick returner.

Buck68, I don't recall us using Pete Johnson and Jim Otis to return punts. I think the buckeye coaches have always valued speed where needed and power where needed.

JT wants it ALL. He wants to be able to both run it down your throat, and spread you out and kill you with speed. I don't think you'll ever see JT focus more on one than the other, but focus on "balance" where he can do both effectively.

I would love to see us go "robust" inside the ten one series, then the next time in the red zone spread it out with TP. I think JT is going to have a lot of fun the next few years with his offense.
 
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NightmaresDad;1221014; said:
Flash, and anybody else, will have plenty of chances to earn the trust of the coaches during August camp. If he proves he can reliably judge and catch the ball, then I think his natural instincts and ability will make him an ideal punt and kick returner.

Completely disagree, Dad [irony ? I coached a soccer team named Nightmares]. First plenty presumes an unlimited number of an unknown number ? when we already know JT has limited time and resources. More basically, it presumes 3 things inaccurate about human learning: that we all necessarily learn; that we learn at a given rate; and, once learned, we can henceforth just do it.

Furthermore, completely disagree because trust is not a have or have not thing, but an ongoing relationship based on ongoing as well as initial inputs. And trust does not necessarily mean best, as in best man plays.

Finally, no real person is an ideal?let alone a FRESHMEN :biggrin:?to the Buckeye set of negatives and mantras. Hero yes. Idol, yes. Ideal? :( LOL

Buck68, I don't recall us using Pete Johnson and Jim Otis to return punts. I think the buckeye coaches have always valued speed where needed and power where needed.

I don?t think we used Orlando Pace or Matt Zahn or Will Smith to return punts either. I too only value speed [of the Whatever Kind] and power [of the humble kind] ?just right where needed [like I know all about exactly what I need beforehand :!]. But, I should not respond like this if it is not ?walking my talk?. IOW?like I just did here. :wink2:

JT wants it ALL. He wants to be able to both run it down your throat, and spread you out and kill you with speed. I don't think you'll ever see JT focus more on one than the other, but focus on "balance" where he can do both effectively.

yes, we all have wants. Agree, our idea of our fair share is?ALL. Praytell, just how does one focus on balance?or do both at the same time? Rather than the unending case of our wannas?to advantage oneself in a dynamic, iterative competition, focus on the decision making in the F.U.N. in the process ? just as JT says.
 
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Buck68;1221067; said:
Completely disagree, Dad [irony ? I coached a soccer team named Nightmares]. First plenty presumes an unlimited number of an unknown number ? when we already know JT has limited time and resources. More basically, it presumes 3 things inaccurate about human learning: that we all necessarily learn; that we learn at a given rate; and, once learned, we can henceforth just do it.


Yeah, I figured you for a soccer coach. :tongue2:
Your definition of plenty is an "unlimited number"?
Plenty as in: more than enough to complete the taask - one way or the other.


Furthermore, completely disagree because trust is not a have or have not thing, but an ongoing relationship based on ongoing as well as initial inputs. And trust does not necessarily mean best, as in best man plays.

Trust as in - the coach is confident that he will do it and do it well.

Finally, no real person is an ideal?let alone a FRESHMEN :biggrin:?to the Buckeye set of negatives and mantras. Hero yes. Idol, yes. Ideal? :( LOL

Yeah, that TG II as a freshman thing on special teams was a real let down, wasn't it? He wasn't ideal for the job either.

Once again, I use the word ideal as an adjective, and your argument uses it as a noun.
For all your fancy schmancy posting, you don't seemt o comprehend plain english.

Waht Buckeye mantras do you think exist? Is one "no freshman can possibly be the most able for a particular task?" I guess I missed that one.
 
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I think Lane, Patterson,Spitler, and O'neal need to take charge of the special teams. If players are slacking or act timid get in their rear. Sometimes coaches yell and it doesn't sink in but if your teamates are ragging you for some reason that usually gets your attention. We have heat seeking missles like Rolle...BTW I'm looking forward to him destroying someone on ST:biggrin:. I'm optimistic about this seasons ST.
 
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