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- Thread starter Best Buckeye
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OregonBuckeye
Semper Fi Buckeyes
Buckeye Buh Nim;902430; said:
The '05 D faced even tougher offenses, IMO. Texas, Penn St., Iowa, scUM, Minnesota, Notre Dame, Michigan St., etc. There were a lot of top notch offenses on that schedule.
To the people criticizing our D for giving up 80 points in the final 2 games, you have to remember the offense put them in bad field position with turnovers. I don't blame the D for the MNC game at all. Playing in a deep zone all game long with no blitzing was the coaches fault, not the players'.
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OregonBuckeye;903381; said:
I have mentioned this fact, but I didn't do it for the purpose of criticizing the defense. I was merely illustrating that the scarlet colored glasses seem to have scarred a few retinas around here.
The second half of your statement makes a point of defending the players. Good for you. I just hope you don't think you're defending them from me. I was merely talking about results, and was a long way from assigning blame.
While we're on the subject of those results though:
- Yes the offense put them in bad field position
- That offense lost a Heisman winning QB along with the rest of its skill position players (the starters anyway)
- If you want to assign blame to the coaching staff I won't debate the point
- ...but the same coaching staff is still there...
There are answers to the objections that I've brought up, including the bullet-list of objections in this thread. I have offered some of the answers myself on occasion; but I'd really like to see the optimists offer some of their own rather than blithely reasserting their high expectations.
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BayBuck
Buckeyes are best
DaddyBigBucks;903424; said:
An optimist's perspctive: for me the ideal defense consists of some experience at every position, a steady rotation of talent at all the D-line positions, leadership from the LBs, a true lockdown corner and playmakers at the other DB spots. We've seen enough of every player who will get significant time to have an idea of what they actually can do (in addition to the vast potential we know they all have), and in my mind this year's defense is close enough to my ideal vision of the Silver Bullets that my expectations are indeed very high. I personally haven't made any comparisons to great Buckeye defenses of the past, but I won't be at all surprised if we end up doing just that in the years to come.
:)
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CONGERSBUCKEYE
Senior
02 Defense and 06 Defense were motivated to prove they belong to be on the big stage. Now in 07 the Defense reminds me of the offense of 05-06 where they know they belong but need to take it another step and understand what it takes. The 07 offense will hopefully learn from last years defense. I am so tired of reading about Michigan and Wisconsin and would not be too surprised with another OSU Big Ten Championship this season.
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UpNorthBuckeye
Hall of Fame
One of the most impressive things Tressel ever did (IMO) was to evolve the offense during the 04 year. From the early and mid season numbers to the way we lit it up against scUM, he admitted he had to adjust his style.
After Teddy went down, I think he reverted a little bit. In fact, against the Gators he might have had one of his worst coaching performances. Ugh. That hurt to have it come against Urbane Meyer.
So.... the whole coaching staff doesn't have to change if JT keeps his eyes and brain box open, and continues to evolve.
That's why camp is so important -- if the players are really impressive, JT will have more confidence in them and be willing to open it up this year.
There's been too much talk (for my taste) about keeping it simple and run run running the ball.
Let's get this party started!
After Teddy went down, I think he reverted a little bit. In fact, against the Gators he might have had one of his worst coaching performances. Ugh. That hurt to have it come against Urbane Meyer.
So.... the whole coaching staff doesn't have to change if JT keeps his eyes and brain box open, and continues to evolve.
That's why camp is so important -- if the players are really impressive, JT will have more confidence in them and be willing to open it up this year.
There's been too much talk (for my taste) about keeping it simple and run run running the ball.
Let's get this party started!
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martinss01
blissfully stupid
Bleed S & G;902781; said:
your taking optimism to a whole new level
. we have a couple of proven starters. but the majority of the guys who will be getting significant playing time are very very green. even mentioning them in the same sentence as the 02 d line at this point is very premature. on paper they have the potential. but that, imo, is where the discussion ends.are you serious? :tic:
i completely agree with you on the corners. jenkins and washington should make for a very solid pair. i really believe this will be the best corner duo since winfield/plummer. though im not as conserned as you are about the safety spot. having russell back (hopefully 100% and injury free for the year) is bigger than loosing mitchell imo.
this season is tailor made for the "ppg is the only measuring stick" arguement. sorry to say, but it isn't. nothing wrong with being excited over our prospects though :). i certainly am.
OregonBuckeye;903381; said:
i recall the only points scum putting up in the 05 game was off of turnovers. in fact, i think we were heavy into the -'s in turnover margin that year.
the coaching staff is a part of the defense. so from that point of view, the defense is most certainly to blame for the points scum and florida put up. in fact, i can think of 2 scores and 1 overthrown pass that would have gone for a td against scum that occured directly from missed assignments.
and while i don't enjoy remembering anything beyond 18 seconds into the nc game. i recall a td pass where florida started around our 10 and put 3 receivers in the left side of the end zone. as i recall the ONLY defender on that side of the field was jenkins. after the most open of the 3 caught the td pass, jenkins immediately turned around with his arms out as if asking "where the fuck was.... anyone not me?"
im really excited about the d we have coming into this season as well. but i don't think they are anywhere near "all time best" discussions yet. if they go out and shut down teams like penn st. and wisky, id gladly entertain such an arguement. but for the time being... nope, not there yet.
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I agree that this D has everything to prove, but I am optimistic that they just might. My main reason is that I can't recall ever having this many talented players on D - including three who are getting frequent mention as possible AA candidates. Of the 5 starters we lost three of them took 5 years to become starters. I like that, but it doesn't scream talent as much as hard work and experience.
There is so much competition and their skills are being honed against a very talented O with a solid O line. This is not a D that will have a weakness if one or two players don't pan out or are injured. It is all about coming together as a team and learning responsibilities. And if somebody isn't getting the job done somebody else will.
I am very very high on this group.
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Comparing this year's LBs to the Hawk, Carpenter, Schlegal unit is not fair (and no one really did, I guess, although I'm pretty sure that's what Martin had in mind in his post above), but this year's unit is very very good. Will be one of the best in the nation, and is probably deeper than pretty much every other school.
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks;903890; said:
I mentioned earlier either here or in Grant's thread that this year's trio could very well rival Hawk, Carpenter, and Schlegal...
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goodguy
I loathe goodguy
MililaniBuckeye;903896; said:
On paper (potential) maybe. However prior to their senior years, Hawk and Carpenter were known quantities. At this point, you don't know what your going to get from Grant and Freeman this coming season. And as for little animal, he's good but not even close to Hawk. Sorry to say.....because I know how much you like little animal. The hype surrounding little animal reminds me alot of the hype before Katzenmoyer's sophmore year.
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This may not be all that unreasonable. Hawk is almost untouchable - but Lil Animal may come close. Schlegal on the other hand had some real shortcomings.
But an even stronger case can be made that the overall LB corps is stronger than when Hawk was here. When Carp went down we brought in a true Frosh against Michigan. Mark Johnson was the #12 rated LB in the country, and as a 2nd year player he may not crack the two deep.
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I tend to agree, though I think it's rightly a hard sell. We'll have to see after the season is over, I guess.MililaniBuckeye;903896; said:
I would argue that even if the top 3 are maybe a step below the Hawk group, overall the depth is superior in 07 than 05.
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goodguy
I loathe goodguy
Oh8ch;903933; said:
I would not argue that there is a ton of talent at LB. However, I can't see using recruiting rankings as a marker for LB depth. We still have no idea how Johnson will perform on the college field. Go back and see who started over Rodell Dupree in the early 90's. Was that a good indication of our LB depth?
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