-
Follow us on Twitter @buckeyeplanet and @bp_recruiting, like us on Facebook! Enjoy a post or article, recommend it to others! BP is only as strong as its community, and we only promote by word of mouth, so share away!
- Thread starter DaddyBigBucks
- Start date
Fungo Squiggly
Mortal enemy of all things Bucky
Yahoo Pickem Champ
Former Game Champion
'18 BPCFFB II Champ
'18 Keeper League Champ
It would speak far more highly of Troy, Coach Tressel, and the entire team if Troy were to hand the ball to the official and celebrate with his teammates after icing the game with a touchdown.
Upvote
0
Troy striking the pose: inappropriate
But consider this:
But consider this:
There are 2 minutes left. Ohio State is up by 10 points and has just gained a first down at mid-field. Michigan is out of time-outs. Jim Tressel calls a time-out, and begins pulling the seniors off the field one-by-one like he did on Senior Day last year (only on defense).
The excitement in the stadium builds as the penultimate senior, Doug Datish, trots off the field. The noise becomes deafening as Troy raises his arms and begins the slow trot into immortality.
And then for a moment, the ABC director gives the order and the telecast cuts away. There in the South End Zone, right in front of the band is Brutus. Only Brutus has had a brand-new, one-time-use, bronze Brutus outfit made for this occasion. Complete with Bronze Brutus Head, he stands motionless in a proper Heisman pose as the camera pans around him.
As the telecast switches back to Troy, he is embracing his coach and mentor; and tears are visible on the latter's cheeks. They pan the stands and there is absolute pandemonium. They cut back to the game a moment late and you see Justin Zwick handing the ball to the official as the crowd begins chanting, "Heisman... Heisman...".
A couple of snaps later, the game is over. The crowd tramples the new sod and many are seen at the edges pulling up pieces of it, presumably to take home and enshrine. As the telecast signs off, they roll the recording of the steady-cam panning around Heisman-Brutus as the announcer declares the obvious, "Next stop, Glenville".
Upvote
0
tundra1
Heisman
DBB,
Just my $0.02--I would also find your scenario inappropriate. A one-time use Brutus costume is even more staged than Desmond Howard. In addition, it takes away from the game, and I don't think either TS or JT would want that. Just making the costume is implicitly assuming that we will beat Michigan--the focus should be on the game, not the showmanship, IMHO.
Furthermore, it's Senior Day--shouldn't we also celebrate the contributions of Justin Zwick? Why are we potentially ignoring his last play at Ohio Stadium? He put 5 good years into this program, too--maybe not as valuable a contribution as Troy Smith, but still not one we should ignore.
Just my opinion--but let's just win the game and let the voting take care of itself. There's no need to try to force a "Rudy", "Hoosiers" or "Remember the Titans" ending.
Besides, if we're 10 up on Michigan with 2 minutes to play...we should be focusing on the National Championship game (assuming we're undefeated over the next two weeks).
Just my $0.02--I would also find your scenario inappropriate. A one-time use Brutus costume is even more staged than Desmond Howard. In addition, it takes away from the game, and I don't think either TS or JT would want that. Just making the costume is implicitly assuming that we will beat Michigan--the focus should be on the game, not the showmanship, IMHO.
Furthermore, it's Senior Day--shouldn't we also celebrate the contributions of Justin Zwick? Why are we potentially ignoring his last play at Ohio Stadium? He put 5 good years into this program, too--maybe not as valuable a contribution as Troy Smith, but still not one we should ignore.
Just my opinion--but let's just win the game and let the voting take care of itself. There's no need to try to force a "Rudy", "Hoosiers" or "Remember the Titans" ending.
Besides, if we're 10 up on Michigan with 2 minutes to play...we should be focusing on the National Championship game (assuming we're undefeated over the next two weeks).
Upvote
0
NOTREDAMECHIEF
Legend
BuckeyeNation27;650398; said:
27 - Do you live in or near SB? Didn't think so....
Upvote
0
tundra1;650660; said:
IMHO a mascot is a sideshow. It is not inappropriate for him to act like one. I've seen mascots do some amazing things, some good, some bad. Better I never once thought that it added to or detracted from the game. That is the very definition of a sideshow. Players have a role apart from showmanship, the mascot does not.
Upvote
0
NOTREDAMECHIEF;650667; said:
Don't have to...just read this horseshit from a SB newspaper:
First, ND does get a ton of national media exposure, but to say their exposure is that of all other teams combined is delusional arrogance.
Second, he rags on the yardage comparisons between Smith and Quinn, yet ignores more telling stats...
Yard per attempt: Smith 8.87, Quinn 7.37
TD/INT ratio: Smith 22/2, Quinn 21/4
Completion pct: Smith 67.76%, Quinn 63.70%
INT pct: Smith 0.93%, Quinn 1.32% (lower is better)
TD pct: Smith 10.28%, Quinn 6.93% (higher is better)
Attempts per TD: Smith 9.73, Quinn 14.43
...yeah, Quinn has more yardage...solely because he throws the ball 15 fucking times more per game (38 to 23). All other stats are well in Smith's favor.
Third, "Smith holds an edge over Quinn"?! A difference of almost 30 points in passing efficieny is not an "edge", it's cavernous.
Lastly, how much more pompous can you get by actually thinking that "people want to vote for a Notre Dame quarterback"? Or that no one in the country knows what Troy Smith looks like without his helmet on?
Upvote
0
NOTREDAMECHIEF
Legend
MililaniBuckeye;650697; said:
Duhh! So we all have the same opions/ideas as this writer huh?
OMG!
Upvote
0
Hey, maybe people don't know what Troy looks like, sans helmet. It's not as if his face has been on TV as much as, say BQ's sister.
Upvote
0
MililaniBuckeye;650697; said:
30 points in passing efficiency is like the difference between a .270 hitter Ronnie Belliard and a .330 hitter Albert Pujols.....they are just on completely different plains of existence....
Upvote
0
NOTREDAMECHIEF;650707; said:
This is really getting old.
People comment on outrageous arrogance coming from Golden Domeland, and you freak out because not everyone in ND Fanville feels that way or says that or believes that or whatever the heck your point is.
OK... we get it... it's not everybody.
But I have not seen a single person here say that it was everybody. Not one. Not one time.
Feel free to go dig up a post where somebody used that verbiage; I don't doubt that you'll find it. I'm sure someone exaggerated at some point. Maybe that easter egg hunt will keep you from posting aphorisms for 5 minutes.
Upvote
0
Ozone Heisman peice
http://www.the-ozone.net/football/2006/Illinois/buckeyevsshamrock.htm
Buckeye or Shamrock?
By Jeff Amey
As the 2006 season has progressed it has become clear that barring injury the Heisman Trophy winner is going to come down to one of two players at the end of the season. Notre Dame quarterback Brady Quinn and Ohio State quarterback Troy Smith have clearly separated themselves from the pack in media punditry, and should finish one-two in the final voting. The order they should finish is up for debate, and I am going to throw my hat into the ring.
Before we get started, I want to make clear that this will not be a slam piece on Brady Quinn. We think that he is a great quarterback in his own right. We just don't feel that his case for the Heisman Trophy is anywhere close to Troy Smith's this season. We will attempt to show this through the interpretation of this season's statistics as well as analyzing the respective seasons the two quarterbacks have had. In the end, we feel that Troy is clearly having the better of the two seasons, and should be the 2006 Heisman Trophy winner if the voting were to be today.
How we got here
Both of these quarterbacks entered the 2006 with a lot of experience under their belt. Brady Quinn took over the starting reigns at Notre Dame in the middle of the 2003 season, and has been the starter ever since. After shaky freshman and sophomore seasons under Head Coach Ty Willingham, Quinn came into his own in his junior season under the tutilage of new coach Charlie Weis, throwing for nearly 4,000 yards and 32 touchdowns. Expectations were very high for Quinn entering this season, and he was clearly the pre-season front-runner for the 2006 Heisman Trophy.
Exhibit 1: Brady Quinn career passing statistics before 2006 season:
2003--157/332 for 1,831 yards 9 TD 15 INT
2004--191/353 for 2,586 yards 17 TD 10 INT
2005--292/450 for 3,919 yards 32 TD 7 INT
Troy Smith, on the other hand, has had an up and down career at Ohio State, but there have been a lot more ups than downs. Ohio State entered the 2004 season with a decision to make at the quarterback spot following the graduation of Craig Krenzel in the 2003 class that was instrumental in winning the 2002 National Championship. Troy started off the 2004 season behind Justin Zwick, getting only a limited number of snaps per game. With the offense struggling, Troy finally got his shot when Zwick was injured in a game against Iowa in the sixth game of the season. He finished out that year with an incredible game against Michigan, but was suspended for the bowl game and opening game of the 2005 season for taking money from a booster. After serving his suspension, he has never looked back, starting every game after the loss to Texas last season. Troy was widely recognized as being one of the better players in the nation heading into the 2006 season, but was clearly behind Quinn in pre-season hype.
Exhibit 2: Troy Smith career passing statistics before 2006 season:
2002--Redshirt
2003--No stats--4th String
2004--68/122 for 869 yards 8 TD 3 INT
2005--149/237 for 2,282 yards 16 TD 4 INT
An improtant difference between the two before the 2006 season was their differing abilities to run with the ball. Before the 2006 season, Brady Quinn had gained only 111 yards on 172 carries with 4 touchdowns. Troy Smith, on the other hand, entered the 2006 season having rushed for 964 yards on 221 carries with 13 touchdowns. Neither quarterback has done a whole lot running the ball in 2006, so running stats won't affect this discussion very much, but it's important to note if only for the potential Troy has to add to the offense through the ground game, if necessary.
The Case for Brady Quinn--2006
Most Buckeye fans' initial reaction to the words in bold above would be "What case?", but there is indeed a case for Brady Quinn to be the best player in College football this season. This case centers mainly on the basic and most obvious statistical comparison as well as Quinn's performance in clutch situations over the course of this season. The difference in supporting cast is also brought into the discussion. Quinn supporters claiming that Notre Dame's ineffectual running game and shaky offensive line-play only serves to bolster Quinn's case for the Heisman this season. Lastly, Quinn backers point to performances against common opponent's as "proof" of Quinn's superiority this season.
Exhibit 3: Brady Quinn vs. Troy Smith passing statistics for 2006:
Quinn--193/303 for 2,233 yards 21 TD 4 INT
Smith--145/214 for 1,898 yards 22 TD 2 INT
Exhibit 4: Brady Quinn's performance in the clutch--2006 season:
--5 yard TD run against Georgia Tech in 14-10 comeback win at end of first half
--5 TD passes (3 in 2nd half) in 40-37 comeback win over Michigan State
--3 play, 80 yard go-ahead touchdown drive in 20-17 comeback win over UCLA
Exhibit 5: Key offensive losses to Notre Dame roster heading into 2006:
--TE Anthony Fasano, WR Maurice Stovall, OT Mark LeVoir, OG Dan Stevenson
Exhibit 6: Performance vs. common opponents--2006:
Penn State
Quinn--25/36 for 287 yards 3 TD
Smith--12/22 for 155 yards 1 TD 2 INT
Michigan State
Quinn--20/36 for 319 yards 5 TD 1 INT
Smith--15/22 for 234 yards 2 TD
These four exhibits, on the surface at least, make a pretty good argument for Quinn's Heisman campaign. Not only did he lose two key offensive linemen, but he also lost two of his main targets in the passing game in Fasano and Stovall. The Notre Dame offensive line has been shaky at best this season, contributing to the Irish having an anemic running game as well as Brady Quinn facing a lot more pressure than he faced most of last season. The fact that Quinn will reach similar numbers to the ones he put up last season in this situation speaks well for his ability as a quarterback.
Quinn backers are quick to point out that he has put up better numbers than Troy Smith passing despite playing one fewer game and facing (debatably at best) better competition. When those statistics are projected for the full season, Quinn will end up with a substantial lead in total yardage and probably touchdowns as well considering the Irish remaining schedule, two statistics that stick out when people go looking at them. It's also easy to see that Quinn has put up better overall numbers against common opponents so far this season (Ohio State still has a game against common opponent Michigan to go).
Lastly, it is impossible to deny that Quinn has performed well in the clutch this season. Notre Dame has had to pull a few games out of the fire this season, and in each of those instances, Brady Quinn has been an integral part of the spark that led the Irish to victory. The Irish have been behind in the second half of four of their games and have pulled victories out in three of those this season. Quinn deserves a lot of credit for that.
Time to poke some holes
Of course the basics of those four exhibits don't go very far to telling the whole story. We'll start picking apart Exhibit 3 in the next section, so we'll move instead to Exhibit 4. The key to deflating the argument concerning Quinn's performance in the clutch is to ask the question of why Notre Dame needed those kind of performances out of him in the first place? This is a difficult proposition, as exhibit 5 can be used to explain or at least excuse the Irish for fome of the problems they've had to put them in the difficult positions they've found themselves in this season. Should a team with a Heisman quality player find themselves in such dire straits as often as the Irish have this season, though?
It's not as if Troy Smith hasn't had his clutch moments over this season and during his career. In a season where the Buckeyes haven't been challenged very often by their opponents, clutch has to be defined a little different in his case. There have been several moments this season where Troy has put himself in a category all by himself with his play-making ability. Whether it be escaping pressure to throw a long touchdown pass, or scrambling out of pressure to pick up a key third down with his feet or a throw, there have been plays this season that only a handful of players, and probably no one else currently playing College football, could've pulled off. This is even leaving out what he's done in past seasons against the Buckeye's main rival, Michigan.
Speaking of Michigan...
Exhibit 7: Brady Quinn Stat-line vs. Michigan--2006:
24/48 for 234 yards 3 TD 3 INT
--Quinn responsible for 4 turnovers--2 returned for touchdowns in Notre Dame's 47-21 home loss
This is a game that Troy Smith has yet to play in 2006, so these statistics cannot solely be used to discount Quinn's Heisman chances this season, but it puts a pretty big blemish on them. If Michigan's defense is able to do to Troy what they did to Quinn in that game, then his mediocre (at best) numbers are excusable. If Troy is instead able to turn in the kind of performance he's put in the past two seasons against the Wolverines again this year...well, let's just say the case should be closed right then and there.
As for the other two common opponents, the data from those two games are largely worthless for comparison purposes. The circumstances of the relative games were completely different in both cases. Notre Dame destroyed Penn State 41-17 at home, while Ohio State struggled to a 28-6 win that was admittedly closer than the score indicates. The problem with using this game for comparison purposes is that the OSU-PSU game was played on a very wet day and on a field that was in way less than optimal condition. Passing the ball was a dicey proposition for both teams for most of this game. Notre Dame played the Lions in much closer to optimal conditions. It's like comparing apples to oranges.
The same goes for comparing the Michigan State games both teams played. Notre Dame found themselves behind for most of this game, taking their first lead with 2:53 left in the fourth quarter. Brady Quinn threw for five touchdowns and over 300 yards in their win, but nearly lost the game despite those gaudy stats. Nevermind that the Spartans practically handed the Irish the win with turnovers in the fourth quarter. Ohio State, on the other hand, pummeled the Spartans from the opening snap of their game, running off a 38-0 lead before giving up a garbage touchdown late in the game. Troy Smith passed the ball only 5 times in the second half of that game (Brady Quinn regularly passes that many times in one drive). Is Troy to be punished for leading his team to a huge lead, then not passing to run the score up in the second half?
The Rebuttal or Making the Case for Troy
Why do we think Troy is way ahead in the Heisman race this season? The answer is complex. There aren't any clutch come-from-behind wins to point to, nor are there any glaring weaknesses in Troy's supporting cast despite the loss of two three year starters on the offensive line, one of the main wide receiver threats, and starting tight end from last season's team (wait a second...we thought only Quinn had that problem!). Troy enjoys the support of a successful running game on a weekly basis, and we can't point to an obviously better statistical showing with any common opponents the Buckeyes and the Irish have had this season. What we can, however, point to is a consistantly successful body of work in the 2006 season that has caused the Ohio State offense to look more like a machine than a football team at times en route to a (currently) 9-0 record and #1 ranking in which they have never truly been threatened.
In the last section, we said we would discect Exhibit 3 from above, and here's where that's going to come in. No matter how you look at it, Brady Quinn has put up bigger numbers through eight games than Troy Smith has through nine. The first thing you notice when looking at those numbers, however, is that Quinn has put up nearly 100 more passes this season while putting up only a little more than 300 yards more passing and one less touchdown while throwing two more interceptions. At first glance, it looks like this is a pretty even matchup of statistics between the two, but nothing could be further from the truth. The exhibits are going to come fast and furious...
Exhibit 8: Ohio State vs. Notre Dame offensive analysis:
--Ohio State offense--(9 games)
575 total offensive plays--63.9 plays per game
Troy Smith has taken 499 of the 575 snaps this season--55.4 per game
214 of those snaps have been pass plays--23.8 per game--(43%)
--Notre Dame offense--(8 games)
569 total offensive plays--71.1 plays per game
Brady Quinn has taken 552 of the 569 snaps this season--69.0 per game
303 of those snaps have been pass plays--37.9 per game--(55%)
There are a few things that stand out in that exhibit. Despite playing one less game, Notre Dame has had nearly the same amount of offensive snaps as the Buckeyes have so far this season. On average, the Irish get about 7 more snaps per game. Brady Quinn has taken 53 more snaps through eight games than Troy Smith has taken through nine and averages nearly 14 more snaps per game. Given the perceived differences between Ohio State and Notre Dame's offensive philosophies and the advantage of snaps per game, it shouldn't be too surprising that Brady Quinn averages about 14 more passes per game than Troy Smith, but looks can be a little deceiving, as we believe they are in this case...
Exhibit 9: Troy Smith vs. Brady Quinn--Passing statistics by half:
--Troy Smith--(9 games)
1st Half--139 passes--94/139 for 1,211 yards 14 TD 1 INT
2nd Half--75 passes--51/75 for 687 yards 8 TD 1 INT
--Brady Quinn--(8 games)
1st Half--173 passes--114/173 for 1,209 yards 12 TD 2 INT
2nd Half--130 passes--81/130 for 1,024 yards 9 TD 2 INT
Bear with me here as I make this point clear. If you look at just first half passing statistics, you'll see that the numbers are fairly similar. Quinn has thrown and completed more passes, but the yardage totals and touchdown to interception ratio are pretty similar. The dropoff comes in the second half. To best illustrate this, if you look at the average number of passes each quarterback throws in the second half, you'll find that Troy throws only 8.3 passes per game in the second half, while Quinn throws nearly double that at 16.3 per game. This indicates either one of two things. Either Notre Dame needs Quinn to be moving the ball through the air in the second half more often due to the situation, or they are deliberately padding Quinn's stats by throwing the ball after games are no longer in doubt. We all know which of those two situations has been the case, for the most part, this season...
Exhibit 10: Number of 2nd half snaps and games finished--Troy Smith vs. Brady Quinn--2006:
Troy Smith--207 out of 277 possible snaps
took final offensive snap in three of nine games
Brady Quinn--253 out of 270 possible snaps
took final offensive snap in six of eight games
As you can see, Troy has not really been needed to produce much in the second half of games this season. He hasn't taken the final snap of a game since the Buckeye's 38-17 win over Iowa, leaving very early in the second half of Ohio State's last four games, all blowouts. Brady Quinn, on the other hand, has had to finish out six games this season, and has taken all but 17 of Notre Dame's total snaps this season. We're willing to bet that most Irish fans would be hard-pressed to name Notre Dame's backup quarterback, while Buckeye fans have been treated to appearances all the way down to the fourth string over the course of the season.
So the question here becomes "How much better would Troy's numbers be if he were forced to play all four quarters on a weekly basis"? It's hard to say because the Buckeyes have done so much more running with the ball in the second half this season, but we're willing to bet the statistical battle wouldn't really be all that close in this case. Through all of the statistical mumbo-jumbo, there has been one statistic not really mentioned in this argument that is often used to compare quarterbacks no matter the system and circumstances...
Exhibit 11: Passing Efficiency Rating--Troy Smith vs. Brady Quinn--2006:
Troy Smith--174.31
Brady Quinn--145.84
You can argue things anywhich way you want to, but there is no escaping this number. The passing efficiency rating is a tool to determine how efficiently a quarterback plays in the passing game. It's a fairly simple, yet often misunderstood formula, but does a pretty good job of forming a basis to somewhat accurately compare quarterbacks from different systems and without many (or any) common opponents. If his career were to end today, Troy Smith would hold the Big 10 career passing efficiency record, which puts him in and above some pretty lofty company. To be fair here, Quinn's rating of 145.84 is pretty good in its own right (good enough for #22 in the nation currently), but Troy is just playing light's out this season (#5 currently).
What does this all mean?
This argument comes down to two basic sets of questions:
Do you reward Troy Smith for leading his team to large halftime leads, which allows him to take off good portions of the second halves of Buckeye games this season while putting together highly efficient stats during the playing time he does get? Or do you punish him for a lower statistical output and a lack of highly dramatic game endings because of the relative dominance and offensive philosophy of the team he plays for? Are highlight reel plays, blowout victories and an astronomical efficiency rating enough to make the claim for the best player in College football?
-and-
Do you reward Brady Quinn for leading his team back from defecits for dramatic wins over opponents of questionable quality, all behind a shaky offensive line and with a mostly ineffective running game? Or do you punish him for allowing the Irish to get in those situations in the first place, and falling apart in a home game with a traditional rival in which he accounted for 4 turnovers that ended in a blowout loss? Are the occasional emotional wins and highlights of spectacular catches and runs by Irish receivers and backs of fairly routine Brady Quinn passes (still giving him the nod for his high efficiency rating) enough to make the claim for the best player in College football?
We think the answers to these questions are fairly simple. Quinn is a very good quarterback, but he's not performing at the same level as Troy Smith this season.
One last bit of argument that has been used against Troy Smith in some circles is his suspension in 2004 for taking money from a booster and subsequent NCAA rules violation. Some feel that a player who has "cheated" in his career doesn't deserve to be recognized as the best player. What fans outside (and some inside)of the Ohio State circle don't understand about this whole situation is that Troy has had a much tougher time earning the support of most Buckeye fans than he did with the national media along the way. Troy was a differenct kind of quarterback, leading a style of offense that Ohio State fans were unaccustomed to.
After his suspension, he had an uphill battle regaining the hearts and minds of Buckeye fans who had just begun to accept him as the unquestioned leader of this team after his game against Michigan in 2004. Most Buckeye fans, including the writer of this article, had a hard time accepting him re-taking the reigns in 2005, and there are a good portion of Buckeye fans that feel that his suspension cost the Buckeyes a shot at the National Championship that season. It took most of the 2005 season for Troy to reingratiate himself fully to the Buckeye nation.
Is this an excuse for his earlier transgression or somehow dismissing it as not important? Certainly not, but we want to make clear that he served his sentence for the crime and then some to get to the point where he is today.
There it is...the cases have been made. You decide.
http://www.the-ozone.net/football/2006/Illinois/buckeyevsshamrock.htm
Buckeye or Shamrock?
By Jeff Amey
As the 2006 season has progressed it has become clear that barring injury the Heisman Trophy winner is going to come down to one of two players at the end of the season. Notre Dame quarterback Brady Quinn and Ohio State quarterback Troy Smith have clearly separated themselves from the pack in media punditry, and should finish one-two in the final voting. The order they should finish is up for debate, and I am going to throw my hat into the ring.
Before we get started, I want to make clear that this will not be a slam piece on Brady Quinn. We think that he is a great quarterback in his own right. We just don't feel that his case for the Heisman Trophy is anywhere close to Troy Smith's this season. We will attempt to show this through the interpretation of this season's statistics as well as analyzing the respective seasons the two quarterbacks have had. In the end, we feel that Troy is clearly having the better of the two seasons, and should be the 2006 Heisman Trophy winner if the voting were to be today.
How we got here
Both of these quarterbacks entered the 2006 with a lot of experience under their belt. Brady Quinn took over the starting reigns at Notre Dame in the middle of the 2003 season, and has been the starter ever since. After shaky freshman and sophomore seasons under Head Coach Ty Willingham, Quinn came into his own in his junior season under the tutilage of new coach Charlie Weis, throwing for nearly 4,000 yards and 32 touchdowns. Expectations were very high for Quinn entering this season, and he was clearly the pre-season front-runner for the 2006 Heisman Trophy.
Exhibit 1: Brady Quinn career passing statistics before 2006 season:
2003--157/332 for 1,831 yards 9 TD 15 INT
2004--191/353 for 2,586 yards 17 TD 10 INT
2005--292/450 for 3,919 yards 32 TD 7 INT
Troy Smith, on the other hand, has had an up and down career at Ohio State, but there have been a lot more ups than downs. Ohio State entered the 2004 season with a decision to make at the quarterback spot following the graduation of Craig Krenzel in the 2003 class that was instrumental in winning the 2002 National Championship. Troy started off the 2004 season behind Justin Zwick, getting only a limited number of snaps per game. With the offense struggling, Troy finally got his shot when Zwick was injured in a game against Iowa in the sixth game of the season. He finished out that year with an incredible game against Michigan, but was suspended for the bowl game and opening game of the 2005 season for taking money from a booster. After serving his suspension, he has never looked back, starting every game after the loss to Texas last season. Troy was widely recognized as being one of the better players in the nation heading into the 2006 season, but was clearly behind Quinn in pre-season hype.
Exhibit 2: Troy Smith career passing statistics before 2006 season:
2002--Redshirt
2003--No stats--4th String
2004--68/122 for 869 yards 8 TD 3 INT
2005--149/237 for 2,282 yards 16 TD 4 INT
An improtant difference between the two before the 2006 season was their differing abilities to run with the ball. Before the 2006 season, Brady Quinn had gained only 111 yards on 172 carries with 4 touchdowns. Troy Smith, on the other hand, entered the 2006 season having rushed for 964 yards on 221 carries with 13 touchdowns. Neither quarterback has done a whole lot running the ball in 2006, so running stats won't affect this discussion very much, but it's important to note if only for the potential Troy has to add to the offense through the ground game, if necessary.
The Case for Brady Quinn--2006
Most Buckeye fans' initial reaction to the words in bold above would be "What case?", but there is indeed a case for Brady Quinn to be the best player in College football this season. This case centers mainly on the basic and most obvious statistical comparison as well as Quinn's performance in clutch situations over the course of this season. The difference in supporting cast is also brought into the discussion. Quinn supporters claiming that Notre Dame's ineffectual running game and shaky offensive line-play only serves to bolster Quinn's case for the Heisman this season. Lastly, Quinn backers point to performances against common opponent's as "proof" of Quinn's superiority this season.
Exhibit 3: Brady Quinn vs. Troy Smith passing statistics for 2006:
Quinn--193/303 for 2,233 yards 21 TD 4 INT
Smith--145/214 for 1,898 yards 22 TD 2 INT
Exhibit 4: Brady Quinn's performance in the clutch--2006 season:
--5 yard TD run against Georgia Tech in 14-10 comeback win at end of first half
--5 TD passes (3 in 2nd half) in 40-37 comeback win over Michigan State
--3 play, 80 yard go-ahead touchdown drive in 20-17 comeback win over UCLA
Exhibit 5: Key offensive losses to Notre Dame roster heading into 2006:
--TE Anthony Fasano, WR Maurice Stovall, OT Mark LeVoir, OG Dan Stevenson
Exhibit 6: Performance vs. common opponents--2006:
Penn State
Quinn--25/36 for 287 yards 3 TD
Smith--12/22 for 155 yards 1 TD 2 INT
Michigan State
Quinn--20/36 for 319 yards 5 TD 1 INT
Smith--15/22 for 234 yards 2 TD
These four exhibits, on the surface at least, make a pretty good argument for Quinn's Heisman campaign. Not only did he lose two key offensive linemen, but he also lost two of his main targets in the passing game in Fasano and Stovall. The Notre Dame offensive line has been shaky at best this season, contributing to the Irish having an anemic running game as well as Brady Quinn facing a lot more pressure than he faced most of last season. The fact that Quinn will reach similar numbers to the ones he put up last season in this situation speaks well for his ability as a quarterback.
Quinn backers are quick to point out that he has put up better numbers than Troy Smith passing despite playing one fewer game and facing (debatably at best) better competition. When those statistics are projected for the full season, Quinn will end up with a substantial lead in total yardage and probably touchdowns as well considering the Irish remaining schedule, two statistics that stick out when people go looking at them. It's also easy to see that Quinn has put up better overall numbers against common opponents so far this season (Ohio State still has a game against common opponent Michigan to go).
Lastly, it is impossible to deny that Quinn has performed well in the clutch this season. Notre Dame has had to pull a few games out of the fire this season, and in each of those instances, Brady Quinn has been an integral part of the spark that led the Irish to victory. The Irish have been behind in the second half of four of their games and have pulled victories out in three of those this season. Quinn deserves a lot of credit for that.
Time to poke some holes
Of course the basics of those four exhibits don't go very far to telling the whole story. We'll start picking apart Exhibit 3 in the next section, so we'll move instead to Exhibit 4. The key to deflating the argument concerning Quinn's performance in the clutch is to ask the question of why Notre Dame needed those kind of performances out of him in the first place? This is a difficult proposition, as exhibit 5 can be used to explain or at least excuse the Irish for fome of the problems they've had to put them in the difficult positions they've found themselves in this season. Should a team with a Heisman quality player find themselves in such dire straits as often as the Irish have this season, though?
It's not as if Troy Smith hasn't had his clutch moments over this season and during his career. In a season where the Buckeyes haven't been challenged very often by their opponents, clutch has to be defined a little different in his case. There have been several moments this season where Troy has put himself in a category all by himself with his play-making ability. Whether it be escaping pressure to throw a long touchdown pass, or scrambling out of pressure to pick up a key third down with his feet or a throw, there have been plays this season that only a handful of players, and probably no one else currently playing College football, could've pulled off. This is even leaving out what he's done in past seasons against the Buckeye's main rival, Michigan.
Speaking of Michigan...
Exhibit 7: Brady Quinn Stat-line vs. Michigan--2006:
24/48 for 234 yards 3 TD 3 INT
--Quinn responsible for 4 turnovers--2 returned for touchdowns in Notre Dame's 47-21 home loss
This is a game that Troy Smith has yet to play in 2006, so these statistics cannot solely be used to discount Quinn's Heisman chances this season, but it puts a pretty big blemish on them. If Michigan's defense is able to do to Troy what they did to Quinn in that game, then his mediocre (at best) numbers are excusable. If Troy is instead able to turn in the kind of performance he's put in the past two seasons against the Wolverines again this year...well, let's just say the case should be closed right then and there.
As for the other two common opponents, the data from those two games are largely worthless for comparison purposes. The circumstances of the relative games were completely different in both cases. Notre Dame destroyed Penn State 41-17 at home, while Ohio State struggled to a 28-6 win that was admittedly closer than the score indicates. The problem with using this game for comparison purposes is that the OSU-PSU game was played on a very wet day and on a field that was in way less than optimal condition. Passing the ball was a dicey proposition for both teams for most of this game. Notre Dame played the Lions in much closer to optimal conditions. It's like comparing apples to oranges.
The same goes for comparing the Michigan State games both teams played. Notre Dame found themselves behind for most of this game, taking their first lead with 2:53 left in the fourth quarter. Brady Quinn threw for five touchdowns and over 300 yards in their win, but nearly lost the game despite those gaudy stats. Nevermind that the Spartans practically handed the Irish the win with turnovers in the fourth quarter. Ohio State, on the other hand, pummeled the Spartans from the opening snap of their game, running off a 38-0 lead before giving up a garbage touchdown late in the game. Troy Smith passed the ball only 5 times in the second half of that game (Brady Quinn regularly passes that many times in one drive). Is Troy to be punished for leading his team to a huge lead, then not passing to run the score up in the second half?
The Rebuttal or Making the Case for Troy
Why do we think Troy is way ahead in the Heisman race this season? The answer is complex. There aren't any clutch come-from-behind wins to point to, nor are there any glaring weaknesses in Troy's supporting cast despite the loss of two three year starters on the offensive line, one of the main wide receiver threats, and starting tight end from last season's team (wait a second...we thought only Quinn had that problem!). Troy enjoys the support of a successful running game on a weekly basis, and we can't point to an obviously better statistical showing with any common opponents the Buckeyes and the Irish have had this season. What we can, however, point to is a consistantly successful body of work in the 2006 season that has caused the Ohio State offense to look more like a machine than a football team at times en route to a (currently) 9-0 record and #1 ranking in which they have never truly been threatened.
In the last section, we said we would discect Exhibit 3 from above, and here's where that's going to come in. No matter how you look at it, Brady Quinn has put up bigger numbers through eight games than Troy Smith has through nine. The first thing you notice when looking at those numbers, however, is that Quinn has put up nearly 100 more passes this season while putting up only a little more than 300 yards more passing and one less touchdown while throwing two more interceptions. At first glance, it looks like this is a pretty even matchup of statistics between the two, but nothing could be further from the truth. The exhibits are going to come fast and furious...
Exhibit 8: Ohio State vs. Notre Dame offensive analysis:
--Ohio State offense--(9 games)
575 total offensive plays--63.9 plays per game
Troy Smith has taken 499 of the 575 snaps this season--55.4 per game
214 of those snaps have been pass plays--23.8 per game--(43%)
--Notre Dame offense--(8 games)
569 total offensive plays--71.1 plays per game
Brady Quinn has taken 552 of the 569 snaps this season--69.0 per game
303 of those snaps have been pass plays--37.9 per game--(55%)
There are a few things that stand out in that exhibit. Despite playing one less game, Notre Dame has had nearly the same amount of offensive snaps as the Buckeyes have so far this season. On average, the Irish get about 7 more snaps per game. Brady Quinn has taken 53 more snaps through eight games than Troy Smith has taken through nine and averages nearly 14 more snaps per game. Given the perceived differences between Ohio State and Notre Dame's offensive philosophies and the advantage of snaps per game, it shouldn't be too surprising that Brady Quinn averages about 14 more passes per game than Troy Smith, but looks can be a little deceiving, as we believe they are in this case...
Exhibit 9: Troy Smith vs. Brady Quinn--Passing statistics by half:
--Troy Smith--(9 games)
1st Half--139 passes--94/139 for 1,211 yards 14 TD 1 INT
2nd Half--75 passes--51/75 for 687 yards 8 TD 1 INT
--Brady Quinn--(8 games)
1st Half--173 passes--114/173 for 1,209 yards 12 TD 2 INT
2nd Half--130 passes--81/130 for 1,024 yards 9 TD 2 INT
Bear with me here as I make this point clear. If you look at just first half passing statistics, you'll see that the numbers are fairly similar. Quinn has thrown and completed more passes, but the yardage totals and touchdown to interception ratio are pretty similar. The dropoff comes in the second half. To best illustrate this, if you look at the average number of passes each quarterback throws in the second half, you'll find that Troy throws only 8.3 passes per game in the second half, while Quinn throws nearly double that at 16.3 per game. This indicates either one of two things. Either Notre Dame needs Quinn to be moving the ball through the air in the second half more often due to the situation, or they are deliberately padding Quinn's stats by throwing the ball after games are no longer in doubt. We all know which of those two situations has been the case, for the most part, this season...
Exhibit 10: Number of 2nd half snaps and games finished--Troy Smith vs. Brady Quinn--2006:
Troy Smith--207 out of 277 possible snaps
took final offensive snap in three of nine games
Brady Quinn--253 out of 270 possible snaps
took final offensive snap in six of eight games
As you can see, Troy has not really been needed to produce much in the second half of games this season. He hasn't taken the final snap of a game since the Buckeye's 38-17 win over Iowa, leaving very early in the second half of Ohio State's last four games, all blowouts. Brady Quinn, on the other hand, has had to finish out six games this season, and has taken all but 17 of Notre Dame's total snaps this season. We're willing to bet that most Irish fans would be hard-pressed to name Notre Dame's backup quarterback, while Buckeye fans have been treated to appearances all the way down to the fourth string over the course of the season.
So the question here becomes "How much better would Troy's numbers be if he were forced to play all four quarters on a weekly basis"? It's hard to say because the Buckeyes have done so much more running with the ball in the second half this season, but we're willing to bet the statistical battle wouldn't really be all that close in this case. Through all of the statistical mumbo-jumbo, there has been one statistic not really mentioned in this argument that is often used to compare quarterbacks no matter the system and circumstances...
Exhibit 11: Passing Efficiency Rating--Troy Smith vs. Brady Quinn--2006:
Troy Smith--174.31
Brady Quinn--145.84
You can argue things anywhich way you want to, but there is no escaping this number. The passing efficiency rating is a tool to determine how efficiently a quarterback plays in the passing game. It's a fairly simple, yet often misunderstood formula, but does a pretty good job of forming a basis to somewhat accurately compare quarterbacks from different systems and without many (or any) common opponents. If his career were to end today, Troy Smith would hold the Big 10 career passing efficiency record, which puts him in and above some pretty lofty company. To be fair here, Quinn's rating of 145.84 is pretty good in its own right (good enough for #22 in the nation currently), but Troy is just playing light's out this season (#5 currently).
What does this all mean?
This argument comes down to two basic sets of questions:
Do you reward Troy Smith for leading his team to large halftime leads, which allows him to take off good portions of the second halves of Buckeye games this season while putting together highly efficient stats during the playing time he does get? Or do you punish him for a lower statistical output and a lack of highly dramatic game endings because of the relative dominance and offensive philosophy of the team he plays for? Are highlight reel plays, blowout victories and an astronomical efficiency rating enough to make the claim for the best player in College football?
-and-
Do you reward Brady Quinn for leading his team back from defecits for dramatic wins over opponents of questionable quality, all behind a shaky offensive line and with a mostly ineffective running game? Or do you punish him for allowing the Irish to get in those situations in the first place, and falling apart in a home game with a traditional rival in which he accounted for 4 turnovers that ended in a blowout loss? Are the occasional emotional wins and highlights of spectacular catches and runs by Irish receivers and backs of fairly routine Brady Quinn passes (still giving him the nod for his high efficiency rating) enough to make the claim for the best player in College football?
We think the answers to these questions are fairly simple. Quinn is a very good quarterback, but he's not performing at the same level as Troy Smith this season.
One last bit of argument that has been used against Troy Smith in some circles is his suspension in 2004 for taking money from a booster and subsequent NCAA rules violation. Some feel that a player who has "cheated" in his career doesn't deserve to be recognized as the best player. What fans outside (and some inside)of the Ohio State circle don't understand about this whole situation is that Troy has had a much tougher time earning the support of most Buckeye fans than he did with the national media along the way. Troy was a differenct kind of quarterback, leading a style of offense that Ohio State fans were unaccustomed to.
After his suspension, he had an uphill battle regaining the hearts and minds of Buckeye fans who had just begun to accept him as the unquestioned leader of this team after his game against Michigan in 2004. Most Buckeye fans, including the writer of this article, had a hard time accepting him re-taking the reigns in 2005, and there are a good portion of Buckeye fans that feel that his suspension cost the Buckeyes a shot at the National Championship that season. It took most of the 2005 season for Troy to reingratiate himself fully to the Buckeye nation.
Is this an excuse for his earlier transgression or somehow dismissing it as not important? Certainly not, but we want to make clear that he served his sentence for the crime and then some to get to the point where he is today.
There it is...the cases have been made. You decide.
Upvote
0
How about...
Career records as starters:
Smith: 22-2
Quinn: 27-17
Bowl records as starters:
Smith: 1-0
Quinn: 0-3
Head-to-head:
Smith: 1-0
Quinn: 0-1
Career records as starters:
Smith: 22-2
Quinn: 27-17
Bowl records as starters:
Smith: 1-0
Quinn: 0-3
Head-to-head:
Smith: 1-0
Quinn: 0-1
Upvote
0