2006 Buckeyes Forecast, Recruiting, and The Game (Merged)

[MililaniBuckeye]

The more games Henne plays the worse he looks.

And don't forget that we are very familiar with him since we've played him twice already. If he starts for them in '06 and '07, chalk up two more wins for the good guys.

 

[Tbuck]

I appreciate the thought. It's always nice to talk OSU/Mich. but the post needs a lot of work.

There are obvious flaws in evaluating RBs that others have pointed out.

Doesn't look like you really wanted to spend any time breaking down the Line so you just threw up an even and moved on. You could have at least looked at experience without taking on talent evaluation. You mention Mangold is leaving but no mention of Simms. He actually started that 2002 Fiesta bowl where you wanted to credit Mangold for anchoring the center spot for four years. Stepanovich played a lot of center in '02 although he did move to guard to get Mangold on the field as well.

As for TTUN, losing Stenavinch, Lentz, Henige, and Massaquoi will take a toll on a line that struggled with depth issues this year. Advantage Bucks to my mind.

Curious why compare a little used TE to their biggest playmaker last year? Frost vs Manningham???? I hope that they could win that matchup even though it sounds like Manningham spent some time in the doghouse as well last year. That's just a puzzler.

The kicker breakdown iis riddled with problems. About 35 yds is where Rivas starts getting real shaky. Some of Rivas's kicks, you couldn't even tell if they were blocked or he just struck it so bad. Is that what you mean by 'consistent from 30+.' He had absolutely nothing to do with any touchbacks this year. Ross Ryan handled kickoffs and he's a senior. That leaves it wide open to Zoltan Mesko next year. Supposedly a good one, but untested for sure.

The cornerback certainly wasn't Shazor. I think that you are looking for Grant Mason. If I remember right though, he wasn't the better of the two backs. That is Leon Hall and he'll be back next year.

 

[JXC]

One game he looks mediocre (Penn State, 1st half Illinois, Iowa, Michigan State)

Okay...i'm not even going to touch what you said about Pittman...I think everyone else has done a good enough job with that. But what nobody has mentioned is what you said about Troy Smith? You make it sound like he had a lot more average games than he did. IMHO if you throw out the Texas game, in which he was rusty, and thrown in and out of the game...the only game that he didn't look amazing, to me, was the Penn State game.

You mention the Illinois game and the Michigan State game as being only mediocre games for him. These were his top two passer rating days, 272 for MSU and 228 for ILL.

First off...with the Illinois game. Don't split a game into two halfs. It doesn't matter how you play in 1 half, it's how you play the whole game. Smith ended up with just shy of 300 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, and 55 yards rushing on 7 carries. I don't care what half or quarters he did it in...overall he had a great game.

And then with the Michigan State game? Are you kidding me? Troy didn't play amazing in this game, but he sure was a lot better than mediocre. As I recall it was Holmes and Ginn who let the team down with dropped passes, muffed punts, and so on...Troy Smith was the only constant on the offense with 1 rushing TD and 3 passing TDs on the day, not to mention completing 67% of his passes for 250 yards. Or were you one of the many booing him when he threw a couple of bad passes early? Miss a couple recievers early, and you are ready to boo the guy out of the place...and then you didn't realize that he actually ended up having a nice game. I think had the REST of the team stepped up early in that game, it would have taken a lot of pressure off of Smith...but instead it seemed the whole team was letting us down, and all the pressure went right on Smith...as it should he's the QB...and what did he do...won the game.

And then on top of that, you throw in Iowa? IOWA?!? I saw this as Troy's break out game. Sure he fumbled the ball quite a few times, something that he quickly fixed as the season went on...but that wasn't a problem for me, because he was making things happen...something that excellent QBs do. He had 2 rushing scores, 2 passing scores, not to mention NO INTERCEPTIONS...again. He had 318 total yards of offense...127 of those being on the ground. We rolled Iowa...and Troy Smith was our offense that day.

If these games are mediocre...then we have found ourselves the best QB in the Big 10...because even on his average days, he ended up looking pretty good to me.

 

[BB73]

As a freshman, while healthy and with Braylon Edwards as a deep threat, Michael Hart ran for over 200 yards in 3 consecutive games. He's the only running back in the history of scUM football to accomplish that.

I like Pittman, but if somebody thinks a healthy Hart could have an edge at that spot, it's not exactly a crazy, baseless opinion. Hart was on a few top-10 Heisman candidate lists at the start of this season.

Personally, I'd call the backs even, but I'd give Troy Smith the edge at QB. He had a higher efficiency rating this year, and that doesn't even factor in his ability to run for positive yards.

 

[BuckPride]

Lets simplify this and only look at the changes since the 2005 win at Michigan...
Note: (Replacement player)

Offense:
TE- Michigan Loses Massaqoui (Ecker). OSU loses Hamby (Frost).
LG- Michigan loses Henige (Mitchell??). OSU loses Sims (Rehing??)
LT- Michigan loses Stenavich, protected Henne's blind side (Kolodziel??) KEY
C- Ohio State loses Nick Mangold (Datish??) KEY
RG- Michigan Loses Lentz (???)
FB- Ohio State loses Schnittker (Johnson, White Jr.??)
WR- Michigan loses Avant (Manningham??)
I think Mangold at center is a key loss but so is Stenavich at LT. I think Datish (more experienced OL) will take over, was a pharmacy major, smart kid. Michigan needs someone to protect Henne's blind side which Stenavich did since 2002. But in Ohio Stadium I will give our offense the edge over Michigan offense.


Defense:
DT- OSU loses Marcus Green (Penton, Abdallah, Cotton, Worthington??). Michigan loses Massey (Johnson, Slocum, Taylor??).
DE- OSU loses Mike Kudla (Richardson, Wilson, Gholsten??) KEY
DT- Michigan loses Watson (Branch??) KEY
CB- Michigan loses Mason (Harrison??). OSU loses Everett (Malcom Jenkins).

FS- Ohio State loses Salley ( B. Mitchell??)
LINEBACKERS- Ohio State loses AJ Hawk, Carpenter and Schlegel. Big time loss. However, the question is how does Freeman, Laurinaitis, D'Andrea, Hoobler, Kerr match up with Michigan LBs of Harris, Graham and Burgess. Branch is up and coming DT and will be much better than Watson. IMO Patterson will more than replace Mike Kudla, IMO he will have a SUPER season. Even though most preseason experts will use LBing loses aa a sign for downgrading the OSU defense, I think we still have enough talent replacing people that our defense will not suffer as dramatically as some will project us to.

Ohio State loses kicker Josh Huston.

 

[Tbuck]

As a freshman, while healthy and with Braylon Edwards as a deep threat, Michael Hart ran for over 200 yards in 3 consecutive games. He's the only running back in the history of scUM football to accomplish that.

I like Pittman, but if somebody thinks a healthy Hart could have an edge at that spot, it's not exactly a crazy, baseless opinion. Hart was on a few top-10 Heisman candidate lists at the start of this season.

I agree with everything you say. I personally feel that Hart is over-hyped but you can't deny that ttun responds when he is present (unless they are facing the bucks!). He runs with great leverage. No break away speed, but very nice balance and leverage.

That said - that's not why people are taking the evaluation to task. I don't think people think that part of the opinion is crazy and baseless. What was crazy and baseless are the criticisms cincibuck threw out about Pittman. That's where people took exception and rightly so in my book.

Merry Christmas All.

 

[LightningRod]

The heat has been turned up on Carr.

DREW SHARP: Carr's playoff push hides team's faults

December 24, 2005

BY DREW SHARP

FREE PRESS COLUMNIST

The politics of the bowls never sounded more ridiculous than when Congress briefly tabled far more important matters within its legislative domain recently for hearings on the Bowl Championship Series.

But then Lloyd Carr opened his yap, pulled out a Kleenex and cried his hypocritical tears a week ago.

He no longer objects to a college football playoff.

But it's only because he's ticked that he's in San Antonio, preparing for a bowl that's but one of the unappealing New Year's Day-BCS precursors that remain indistinguishable from each other.

Is there really much difference in prestige between the San Diego County Credit Union Poinsettia Bowl and the Gaylord Hotels Music City Bowl Presented By Bridgestone?

Carr has found religion only because the bowl politics that historically have sided with the Michigan football brand name suddenly slapped it in the face, banishing the Wolverines to the Texas hill country for an Alamo Bowl date with Nebraska that possesses all of the appeal of a root canal.

The Wolverines and Iowa had identical 7-4 records, but U-M beat the Hawkeyes on their turf in a stirring overtime finish. However, the Jan. 2 Outback Bowl opted for Iowa because the bowl system always has been more about filling hotel rooms and restaurants and less about carving a path to the national championship.

Carr's playoff repositioning was intended to deflect attention from the worst loss in his 11 years at the helm -- a fourth-quarter collapse against Ohio State a month earlier. The Wolverines aren't playing on New Year's Day for the first time since Carr's first season in 1995 because they weren't deserving. And whining about any perceived problems with the selection process only further salts the wounds.

U-M believes it can exist on its reputation, but the bowl commissioners are no longer instantly blinded from the glow of the hallowed maize and blue. It seemed as though there were three times as many burnt orange Texas fans in the Rose Bowl last year than U-M fans.

Don't hate the system if U-M is losing some of its charm. Blame the guy responsible for the erosion, and that's the reflection shooting back at Carr in the mirror.

Belittling the bowl season remains as much a staple of the holidays as another Lions' coaching search. The BCS has reduced the interest level to one final, climactic stage. But saying there needs to be a playoff when we've got the final game that everybody wanted is nothing short of ridiculous.

The BCS worked, whether through intelligent design or just dumb luck. Fans have the championship game they wanted since the season started. The Rose Bowl features two Heisman Trophy winners in the same backfield and the runner-up in this year's voting quarterbacking the other team.

But the bowls serve their purpose as vehicles of local commerce.

Regardless of their general lack of national appeal, the 28 bowls are expected to generate nearly $1.2 billion in local revenue as more than 1.5 million fans follow their teams.

A playoff doesn't work with a bowl system created as destinations for a successful season. Fans will not travel in huge numbers for a first-round game if the opportunity remains for a bigger ticket a week later.

But common sense has never stopped Congress from sticking its nose where it doesn't belong. It was an embarrassing waste of taxpayer largesse when the House Committee on Energy and Commerce interviewed principals in the BCS.

The committee didn't demand any further investigation and didn't threaten any future legislation. Its members just wanted to put the BCS on notice and steal some cheap points for their constituents.

Rep. Fred Upton, R-St. Joseph, who happens to be a Michigan alum, opened his questioning of BCS conference commissioners with a statement wondering how his Wolverines didn't get a better bowl than the Hawkeyes after having beaten them.

It had to be the BCS' fault.

Perhaps his alma mater's coach should have been the one testifying.

Contact DREW SHARP at 313-223-4055 or [email protected].

 

[Steve19]

Uh-oh! Let's all pull for the Weasels against Nebraska. If they blow that one, it might get a whole lot harder to even the series .

 

[cincibuck]

OK, I feel the love for Pittman out there. I'd certainly concede that he looked much better the second half of the season as oppossed to the first... but then so did the entire offense. The same can be said for Smith. Now, what brought about the change? Was it the line finally jelling? Was it Smith finally getting enough reps with the varsity?... I can't imagine that JT didn't keep him working after the bowl game... or was that part of the suspension? Was it that Smith and Pittman finally felt comfortable with the offense? What ever it was, the offense that faced Michigan was certainly different from the offense that faced Texas... and to a lesser degree Penn State. Of course the defense they ran against was different than Texas and PSU also

When I posted this I thought I stated that what I wrote was opinion and that I was looking for discussion. I didn't intend to 'dis' Pittman, or make him sound like the fall guy for an inept running game at the beginning of the year, though that seems to be how my comments were read.

I especially appreciate BuckPride's breakdown.

Didn't realize that Rivas was not the kick off guy.

 

[LightningRod]

U-M NOTEBOOK: Carr was asked about the status of defensive end Eugene Germany, wide receiver Adrian Arrington and tailback Max Martin, none of whom made the trip. Germany is on indefinite suspension pending his Jan. 25 pretrial hearing for a November altercation with police. "I'll keep my comments to those players who are here," Carr said, before being pressed on the issue. "I assume they'll all come back." ...

Wasn't Arrington supposed to be the next great receiver?

 

[NFBuck]

Wasn't Arrington supposed to be the next great receiver?

You're thinking of Mario Manningham, the traitor from Warren G. Harding.

U-M believes it can exist on its reputation, but the bowl commissioners are no longer instantly blinded from the glow of the hallowed maize and blue. It seemed as though there were three times as many burnt orange Texas fans in the Rose Bowl last year than U-M fans.

 

[Zurp]

Pittman: 23-89 (3.7), game-winning TD
Hart: 9-15 (1.7), longest run was 4 yards

I'm really happy with Pittman. I think he's the right kind of running back for OSU's offense. What does that mean? Actually, I don't know. But if he gets the Buckeyes yards and first downs, then it's all good.

But in fairness to Hart, I think that you're comparing two different things to show the similarities and differences in your stats. Pittman's stats were against Michigan's defense, and Hart's stats were against Ohio State's defense. Anyone who believes Michigan's defense should even be allowed in the same McDonald's as Ohio State's defense is living in an imagination.

To more fairly compare the two, maybe we'd need to compare Hart's stats vs. Indiana and Pittman's stats vs. Indiana.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

To more fairly compare the two, maybe we'd need to compare Hart's stats vs. Indiana and Pittman's stats vs. Indiana.

Well, we could, if Hart had played against Indiana.

How about we look at all common opponents (Pittman's totals in red, Hart's in blue)?

Iowa: 28-171 (6.1) 5-17 (3.4)
PSU: 15-58 (3.9) 23-108 (4.7)
MSU: 18-101 (5.6) 36-218 (6.1)
Minn: 23-186 (8.1) 28-109 (3.9)

Hart did better against PSU than Pittman because of two things:

1. Pittman played in shitty weather while Hart didn't
2. Pittman's game was a road game while Hart's was a home game

The MSU game was fairly even (slight edge to Hart) while the Minnesota and Iowa games were totally lopsided in Pittman's favor.

Totals for these common-opponent conference games:

Pittman: 84-516 (6.1)
Hart: 92-452 (4.9)

 

[Zurp]

Well, we could, if Hart had played against Indiana.

I just picked a team out of my brain. I guess I missed.

How about we look at all common opponents (Pittman's totals in red, Hart's in blue)?

Iowa: 28-171 (6.1) 5-17 (3.4)
PSU: 15-58 (3.9) 23-108 (4.7)
MSU: 18-101 (5.6) 36-218 (6.1)
Minn: 23-186 (8.1) 28-109 (3.9)

Hart did better against PSU than Pittman because of two things:

1. Pittman played in shitty weather while Hart didn't
2. Pittman's game was a road game while Hart's was a home game

The MSU game was fairly even (slight edge to Hart) while the Minnesota and Iowa games were totally lopsided in Pittman's favor.

Totals for these common-opponent conference games:

Pittman: 84-516 (6.1)
Hart: 92-452 (4.9)

I think these stats help us to more fairly compare the players. If I had to guess, I would have said that Hart would have had the better stats for those four games. But, again, I would have guessed wrong.

Thanks, Mili.

 

[LightningRod]

Super Mario dropped that out pass last night late in the 4th quarter. Does this remind anybody of a recent wolverine great?