Game Thread (2004) Game Seven: Indiana - 10/23/04 (W, 4-3/1-3)

[UGABuck]

I am not saying these teams are all equal....sucks can be quite broad:) .


As a UGA grad I watch them carefully and I think they are overrated.

 

[zincfinger]

I would not say PSU is terrible. Their defense played well against Iowa and they have a good RB in Scott.

Clarity, you're probably right that a lot of PSU fans would say the team sucks, but that's only because that program has a lot of pride and 2-5 is not acceptable to them under any circumstances. Penn St.'s defense is good (maybe very good); their offense is not. They will present a far stronger challenge than IU did, and if the Bucks can score another convincing win against the Lions, that will be more substantial cause for bringing our spirits up. In short, Penn St. isn't a great team right now, but a win over them would be a very good win, especially given where we're at right now.

 

[Clarity]

Clarity, you're probably right that a lot of PSU fans would say the team sucks, but that's only because that program has a lot of pride and 2-5 is not acceptable to them under any circumstances. Penn St.'s defense is good (maybe very good); their offense is not. They will present a far stronger challenge than IU did, and if the Bucks can score another convincing win against the Lions, that will be more substantial cause for bringing our spirits up. In short, Penn St. isn't a great team right now, but a win over them would be a very good win, especially given where we're at right now.

Absolutely. Hey, believe me, *any* win against anyone is a very good win given our start in the Big Ten this year. But who would have thought coming into this season that teams like Northwestern, Indiana and Penn State would be games we'd have to actually wonder about the outcome?

Penn State is not good. Very not good. But we're not so good ourselves. So yes, from that angle, beating Penn State will be a big deal.

Agreed (no doubt) that they represent a tougher matchup than Indiana. Penn State actually will tackle. That in of itself is going to present a challenge.

 

[zincfinger]

Clarity, I wouldn't say that I disagree with you, but I'm inclined to give the Lions a little more credit than you are. They're not a good team because they're not a complete team. But, I think their defense is good enough that they would have a chance to hang with a lot of good teams out there.

edit: their defense has consistently been more solid than ours has this year; that will be a very good challenge for our struggling offense.

edit #2 - way off the topic: How about that goal line stand by Arkansas? They're a pretty solid team for their record/position.

 

[Clarity]

Clarity, I wouldn't say that I disagree with you, but I'm inclined to give the Lions a little more credit than you are. They're not a good team because they're not a complete team. But, I think their defense is good enough that they would have a chance to hang with a lot of good teams out there.

I haven't seen PSU play this year, I'm only basing my comments on box scores, game summaries and comments from the various talking heads in the moving pictures box. So please, disagree away. I hope Penn State is a very tough game for us next week, we've got some tougher ones coming. I just hope we win. By no means am I saying it's a lock for us to beat them. We've obviously got our own problems, some of those not being so different than what they've been dealing with.

I'll be looking forward to seeing how Pittman does, how our OL holds up, what kind of time Smith has to throw, etc.

 

[BuckNutty]

Clarity, I wouldn't say that I disagree with you, but I'm inclined to give the Lions a little more credit than you are. They're not a good team because they're not a complete team. But, I think their defense is good enough that they would have a chance to hang with a lot of good teams out there.

Penn State's defense allowed Iowa to score 6 points today and Iowa just scored on our defense again. They gave up 16 to both Wisconsin and Minnesota, and 20 to Purdue. Considering there offense keeps them on the field at all times those numbers are pretty impressive. They will provide our offense a much stiffer test than the Hoosiers did today but 3 Nugent field goals should be enough with their anemic offense. That grand slam they hit today won't have defensive coordinators up pacing the floors at night.

 

[zincfinger]

I'll be looking forward to seeing how Pittman does, how our OL holds up, what kind of time Smith has to throw, etc.

If our offense doesn't struggle mightily against PSU, I'll be amazed and overjoyed. On the flip side, if our defense doesn't stand tall against their abysmal offense, I'll be shocked and chagrined (to borrow the phraseology of Jackie Chiles).

...and Iowa just scored on our defense again.

That was funny!

 

[BrutusBobcat]

Clarity, I am going to disagree with you on one point. I *do* care who starts and plays QB the rest of the year, primarily because the QB position has been directly responsible for around or over 50% of our turnovers. I'd also argue that those turnovers have been fairly critical.

Troy Smith took care of the ball today, and that counts for a lot. Zwick has been fairly horrible in that department. Where I agree is that I don't care if either of them are a "savior". Just don't be the goat.

 

[osugrad21]

Troy Smith took care of the ball today, and that counts for a lot. Zwick has been fairly horrible in that department.

Just to be the devil's advocate here, do you think TS would have had any TOs versus a better opponent. Specifically, I am thinking of the TD to Ginn, one deep ball that the safety did not locate but should have picked, and the lack of any serious pass rush to pressure his throws/decisions.

 

[zincfinger]

Clarity, I am going to disagree with you on one point. I *do* care who starts and plays QB the rest of the year, primarily because the QB position has been directly responsible for around or over 50% of our turnovers. I'd also argue that those turnovers have been fairly critical.

Troy Smith took care of the ball today, and that counts for a lot. Zwick has been fairly horrible in that department. Where I agree is that I don't care if either of them are a "savior". Just don't be the goat.

It's a valid point, but at the same time, it's a hell of a lot easier to take care of your QB duties when your running backs are garnering 6+ ypc, than when they're hauling in a paltry 2+ ypc.

 

[Clarity]

Yeah, I'm on board with both of the preceding statements. Zwick's first two games represent most of his picks, and I thought he made a lot of progress towards cleaning it up after that. In fact, Santonio Holmes could be credited for having TOs just as or more severe as of late, and I'm sure you don't want to see him benched in favor of someone else. Smith, and this isn't a knock, just an observation - some picks come with the territory, could very easily have had two today, had Indiana not been entirely inept. "Could have" isn't the same has "had" though, so it's not like I'm holding something against him that could have happened. I'm just saying that I'm not sure I agree that there was a clear difference in the "protecting the ball" category. Outside of fumbles, QBs 'protect the ball' with their defensive reads, and the decisions they make leading up to the release of the ball towards a receiver. Smith made some bad decisions today, more earlier than later, I thought there was a noticeable improvement as the game went on -- good news, IMO. Zwick has certainly made bad decisions as well. One only has to go back as far as the fade pass into the endzone last week to our shortest receiver that ended in a pick. But for the sake of my response, it's not about the ratio of bad to good decisions each has made, it's about my assertion that there isn't a wide enough gap between the play of these two guys to single one out yet as clearly superior.

Let's not pretend like Smith looked brilliant today. He looked good. Guess what, you may not remember in the face of the "Zwick sucks" sentiment that has grown all too common around OSU fan sites, Zwick has looked good at times too.

Today, Smith looked better (overall) than Zwick has lately (overall). But as has been pointed out, against Indiana, with an effective running game, and some amazing catches on the part of the receivers.

That doesn't reduce his play at all, it just puts it in perspective. Something that I think is lacking sometimes when it comes to people's take on the QBs.

I submit that anyone that comes away from today's game feeling like they can justifiably say that one of our two main QBs is vastly superior to the other, is only seeing what their bias demands they see.

This comparing Zwick and Smith thing goes way too far IMO. I find it exceptionally difficult to compare guys who have played very different opposition in very different ways.

I saw someone compare Indiana's defense to that of NCSU on BNuts earlier. That's an example of the *idiocy* that goes into this whole debate. People trying to skew things to fit their bias. And it IS bias. Bias towards one player or another (doesn't matter which) that over rides their interest and perspective in the team as a whole.

I don't get that, but I don't have to. To each their own.

Anyway, it's all a matter of perspective.

 

[BuckPshrink]

Regardless of superior standing or parity, etc... todays offense deserves the opportunity to struggle in"real time" and that begins next week at noon.

If nothing else, the o-line has a game film worthy of study, Troy has the ability to adjust to w.v. s, I am looking forward to Many adjustments which have not been possible before! How do you adjust SUCK!
Todays team played with heat, a good thing from my seat!!!

 

[DiHard]

Perspective/Mutiny....

two parts to this thread....

1-Perspective....It was Indiana and this was a very average overall performance against the hoosiers historically....that being said, getting back to an average buckeye performance is a huge leap forward....next week will show an awful lot more about the offense with rehring, smith, pittman and johnson getting their chance against a real defense...

2-Mutiny...After watching the EFFORT of the offense today...and especially from two specific receivers....it is obvious that some degree of mutiny has taken place regarding the players attitude towards the tressel/bollman offense.....it is clear that the players are as sick and tired of playing this system as we are of having to watch it...and have succeeded in getting tressel to at least try to loosen up....

credit given to tressel for listening to his team and changing his approach....lets just see if it happens again next week...

It is painfully obvious that certain members of this football team want troy smith as the quarterback and the team seemed to respond to the challenge today....Smith should start for the foreseeable future...

right now i am undecided as to how i feel about this....part of me thinks (and hopes this is the right decision) that tressel just blew the qb call and his offense is horrible....the other option is that "certain" players on this team tanked their performance b/c of their dislike for tressels offense and succeeded in forcing a change....this option makes me sick....

both are possible....and all of this will be much, much clearer after facing a good penn state defense....

 

[kn1f3party]

I think Smith may have brought intangibles against Indiana that Zwick may not have. That is why I think he deserves the start against Penn State. You're right in your assessment that we need to consider the opponents when looking at performance. But I think Quarterback play is a larger part of the "disaster recipe" than people assume. At this juncture, starting Zwick next week is taking a risk--in my humble opinion. I have to agree with BrutusBobcat that we can't afford critical turnovers (don't forget the dropped pick 6 by NW which should have kept us out of the game). Our game with Penn State will certainly be one of field position and a QB that provides a threat with his legs may be what the doctor ordered.

 

[ohiobuck94]

My guess is that most of the players want Smith at QB. It gives more offense.
I think they are tired of the old hand the ball off to the TB for 0 yds an QB sacks because Zwick isn't a runner like Smith.