2001-2002 defense vs. 2004-2005

[prayer]

dispatch article today was talking about how strong the osu defense might be this year but used, what i thought, was an apples-oranges comparison between the 2002 and 2004 defenses. the dispatch's stats had the 2002 defense giving up:
77.7 yards rushing per game
13.1 points per game
35.6 percent on 3rd down conversion (surprisingly high, i thought)
getting 2.9 sacks per game
coming up with 2.1 turnovers per game

the 2004 defense:
130 yards rushing per game
18.2 ppg
38.4 percent on 3rd down conversions
2.0 sacks
1.6 turnovers

my question was, how did the 2001 defense do. i knew there was improvement (i attribute a lot of that to a healthy matt wilhelm), but really didn't expect to find what i found.

the 2001 defense
138.8 yards rushing per game
20.3 ppg
46 percent 3rd down conversion (WOW)
2.5 sacks
2.5 turnovers

i think the dramatic defensive improvement from 01 to 02 bodes well for 05. you can see the 04 defense was at least as good, if not better, than the 01 defense (bottom line, points allowed). there is far less player turnover this year (02's defense replaced derek ross, tim cheatwood, joe cooper, i think, cie grant moved to linebacker, meaning a new DB had to step in) what did we have coming back: a solid defensive line (will smith didn't start until the second half of the season); an oft-injured middle LB with solid potential and two veteran safeties. what do we have back this year: a solid defensive line (might not be as good as 02's, but they showed a huge improvement in defense against the rush; perhaps we can see the same this year _ or better); GREAT linebackers; an oft-injured middle linebacker with SKY-HIGH potential; two veteran safeties.

granted, we're two d-coordinators removed from dantonio. but i'm feeling good about this defense.

 

[Yertle]

Wow, nice post. I love the analogy of 2001 to 2004, especially when you continue the analogy from 2002 to 2005. Based on your stats, the 2004 defense was definitely stronger than the 2001 version. If the 2005 is better than the 2002 version, I'll buy my air-fare to Pasadena right now!

This thing with Heacock as our new DC and finding a solid CB are the only things that are keeping me grounded. Granted, the 2002 team needed to dig up solid CB's as well (which they did), but breaking in a new DC was not part of the equation.

Also, Heacock's D didn't shut a lot of people down at YSU last year. It could be the lack of talent, but it doesn't sound overly promising.

 

[biobuck]

is better than the 2002 version, I'll buy my air-fare to Pasadena right now!

This thing with Heacock as our new DC and finding a solid CB are the only things that are keeping me grounded. Granted, the 2002 team needed to dig up solid CB's as well (which they did), but breaking in a new DC was not part of the equation.

Also, Heacock's D didn't shut a lot of people down at YSU last year. It could be the lack of talent, but it doesn't sound overly promising.[/QUOTE]
What does Jon Heacock's D at YSU not shutting down a lot of people at YSU have to do with Jim Heacock being the DC this year? Either I am reading something wrong here or Yertle, you are confused

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

prayer, nice thread idea. It would be great if our 2005 defense was indeed as good as our 2002 defense...if it is, we will be in the national title game. However, we can't go by those stats in determining just how good our 2002 defense was. The 13.1 ppg stat is totally misleading. Just off the top of my head as I'm typing this, I can recall about five TDs that were given up by our replacements (two TDs to Texas Tech, two TDs and a FG to Kent State, one TD to Indiana). We gave up 159 points total in the 13-game 2002 regular season (12.2 ppg). Take away the 38 garbage points, and that's 121 points given up by our starting defense (9.3 ppg). Also, our second half defense in conference was phenomenal. Our starting defense gave up only a couple TDs and a FG (or two) in the second half throughout the entire conference schedule. They got stronger as the games progressed and they made their adjustments. We will be lucky to ever have a defense like that again.

 

[Yertle]

What does Jon Heacock's D at YSU not shutting down a lot of people at YSU have to do with Jim Heacock being the DC this year?

Well, it's really quite simple. I'm surprised you're not clever enough to figure it out, now that you mention it.

You see, Biobuck, I'M A FRICKING MORON!!! All this time I thought it was Jon Heacock and Luke Fickel. Dammit!!!!

 

[Jaxbuck]

Nobody loves to look at stats more than I do but imo, the comparison of 02 and the potential of '05 has nothing to do with numbers. It's all about the DL and '02 was a group the like of which might not be seen again for many years.

Pitcock is a stud, Green is solid and there is great depth to be sure but this line is nowhere near as dominant across the front as the 2002/03 DL was. They were unreal. Many, many times they rushed 3 dropped 8 and still got tremendous pressure on the QB. They controlled the LOS like no Buckeye front 4 I've seen in my time(teams from about 1980 and on). They totally kicked Miami's ass and set the tone for that game from the first snap. Darion Scott almost killed 3 or 4 different QB's that year by himself.

I might be inclined to give the '05 teams back 7 the nod in overall athleticisim(especially when you think about Nickey) but from a leadership point of view I don't know that I wouldn't take the '02 group with Wilhelm, Doss, Nickey et al.

Hopefully the '05 team comes out and gives me a great big old cup of shut the fuck up, but I'll believe they are better than the '02 squad when I see it.

 

[Carmen Ohio]

Nobody loves to look at stats more than I do but imo, the comparison of 02 and the potential of '05 has nothing to do with numbers. It's all about the DL and '02 was a group the like of which might not be seen again for many years.

Pitcock is a stud, Green is solid and there is great depth to be sure but this line is nowhere near as dominant across the front as the 2002/03 DL was. They were unreal. Many, many times they rushed 3 dropped 8 and still got tremendous pressure on the QB. They controlled the LOS like no Buckeye front 4 I've seen in my time(teams from about 1980 and on). They totally kicked Miami's ass and set the tone for that game from the first snap. Darion Scott almost killed 3 or 4 different QB's that year by himself.

I might be inclined to give the '05 teams back 7 the nod in overall athleticisim(especially when you think about Nickey) but from a leadership point of view I don't know that I wouldn't take the '02 group with Wilhelm, Doss, Nickey et al.

Hopefully the '05 team comes out and gives me a great big old cup of shut the fuck up, but I'll believe they are better than the '02 squad when I see it.

Wasn't the point of the post more toward comparing 2001 and 2004 and evaluating our potential based on what we have coming back. I find the similarities stunning and think 2005 group could be as good and in some ways better than 2002. You guys might think I'm crazy but I'll take Yobouty over 2003's Gamble. Everybody who frequents here knows I was crazy about Wilhelm but I'll take the 2005 LB group over that one. I see Patterson busting out like Peterson did and Kudla being the monster he was predicted to be just like Smith... though Smith had an unreal season. Giving the back 7 the nod in athleticism is huge. Hawk and Salley have emerged as leaders but the one player we'll have a tough time replacing early-on is Fox. That might be the X-factor in the Iowa game.

 

[buckwild23]

*****We will be lucky to ever have a defense like that again. We gave up 159 points total in the 13-game 2002 regular season (12.2 ppg).*****

Good stuff MBuck,
I would like to add the 1998 Defense. 12-Game Season gave up 144 points 12.0 Points a game.
Andy Katzenmoyer,Antoine Winfield,Damon Moore,Ahmed Plummer,Na'il Diggs,Gary Berry, James Cotton, Ryan Pickett(True Freshman), Jerry Rudzinski. Except for one MAJOR Hic-up in the 98' Season ,I am still convinced, Ohio State was the best team in the Nation that year.

GO BUCKS!!!! Miami here

 

[BB73]

the 2004 defense:
130 yards rushing per game
18.2 ppg
38.4 percent on 3rd down conversions
2.0 sacks
1.6 turnovers

my question was, how did the 2001 defense do. i knew there was improvement (i attribute a lot of that to a healthy matt wilhelm), but really didn't expect to find what i found.

the 2001 defense
138.8 yards rushing per game
20.3 ppg
46 percent 3rd down conversion (WOW)
2.5 sacks
2.5 turnovers

It's an interesting comparison. The aspect where the 2001 defense has the better numbers than 2004 is in sacks and forcing turnovers. Like Tress said after the scrimmage yesterday, the defense needs to be able to get more pressure on the Qb's. Hopefully, Richardson, Kudla, Patterson, Barrow, and Gholston can bring enough rush from the edge to create big losses and turnovers.

 

[High Lonesome]

prayer, nice thread idea. It would be great if our 2005 defense was indeed as good as our 2002 defense...if it is, we will be in the national title game. However, we can't go by those stats in determining just how good our 2002 defense was. The 13.1 ppg stat is totally misleading. Just off the top of my head as I'm typing this, I can recall about five TDs that were given up by our replacements (two TDs to Texas Tech, two TDs and a FG to Kent State, one TD to Indiana). We gave up 159 points total in the 13-game 2002 regular season (12.2 ppg). Take away the 38 garbage points, and that's 121 points given up by our starting defense (9.3 ppg). Also, our second half defense in conference was phenomenal. Our starting defense gave up only a couple TDs and a FG (or two) in the second half throughout the entire conference schedule. They got stronger as the games progressed and they made their adjustments. We will be lucky to ever have a defense like that again.

Actually I think that you can go by those stats. They are the same ones that every other team in america uses and all of the trash time td's still count. Im sure that even with those 'extra' tds the '02 defense stacks up very well by the numbers to any team in the country that year. Now if you want to adjust every teams numbers in the country in the same way, then go ahead, but what is the need when anyone with half a brain knows how good that team was. I even have a soft spot in my heart for the '02 buckeye team. The largest wager I have ever made was on that MNC game.

 

[exhawg]

The problem this season compared to 2002 is the DL. Pitcock is the only stud in the group. The others are good, but not Smith, Anderson, Scott good. That means that JH will have to bring a LB or 2 to get a good rush, which will open up the passing game a little until the QB gets rattled. At least Kudla is athletic enough to drop so JH might be able to make use of some zone blitz's and drop Kuds into coverage.

 

[AKAK]

The problem this season compared to 2002 is the DL. Pitcock is the only stud in the group. The others are good, but not Smith, Anderson, Scott good. That means that JH will have to bring a LB or 2 to get a good rush, which will open up the passing game a little until the QB gets rattled. At least Kudla is athletic enough to drop so JH might be able to make use of some zone blitz's and drop Kuds into coverage.

This is a tough comparison... problem is that we know how good that '02 group turned out. We don't know how good this group is going to be... with that in mind, I think this group is actually better on paper than the '02 group was going into the season.

In '02... at the same time... we had essentially zero healthy CB's... Cie Grant was movign from CB to LB... Wlihelm hadn't been healthy in forever, and Trubo Reynolds was kind of a "Solid" guy... IMO, at the start, Will Smith was the only real "known" quantity on the DL and We all knew what Doss could do.

This year, and I think Hawg is right about the DL... but somoeone is going to have to step up.. (Remember Kenny Peterson was a chronic Underavcheiver back then)... so While We may be a little thinner on the front... the LB's are much better... the DB situation is actually better and we have about 5 LB's who can start anywhere.

Now... will the stats be there or will they have the key gusy make an impact? Dunno... but... the horses are as "in place" as they have ever been.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

two things-1 richardson got his pick on a zone blitz we will continue you to see it with our athleticism.

2-what makes the 02 season incredible is putting those offensive outputs agains their season averages. everytime i think of that group a different thing pops into my mind. holding heisman trophy canidate larry johnson to negative yardage in the second half. flat out shutting down and makeing gesser scared. rattling williams and pickett in the night game.

it was a pleasure to see that team play 10 times, something i will tell my grandkids about some day. but honestly i do not know how good a comparison was. the 02 was so great for one reason. nobody played better in the clutch. if the chips were down they put the other team out.

 

[AKAK]

rattling williams and pickett in the night game.

Boy.. that would have been really cool, if we had actually played those guys in '02.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

err 03