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Game Thread #2 Ohio State vs #3 Clemson, 8 pm ET, Dec 28th in Glendale, AZ

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clemsonstud05 said:
I don’t think it was a fumble. I agreed with the rules official on the broadcast. Slow-mo was pretty deceptive in that case.
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JFC, the WR took four fucking steps before the ball was dislodged. Every official who has subsequently reviewed the play has said the call should've stood.
 
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clemsonstud05 said:
I don’t think it was a fumble.
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Then we won't agree on much past this point, friend. Appreciate you chiming in. However if the shoe were on the other foot (not that it needs to be given the amount of high level officials that have chimed in to the opposite) then we would know your position.

We'll see you next year.

edit: Apologies in advance for what Joe Burrow is about to do to you. We swear that wasn't our intention when he left.
 
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clemsonstud05 said:
I don’t think it was a fumble. I agreed with the rules official on the broadcast. Slow-mo was pretty deceptive in that case.
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It was not conclusive. Had it been called incomplete, that should have withstood replay as well.
I believe the refs let them play on because that’s what they are supposed to do in similar situations (as a “just in case”). However, I don’t think the call should have been overturned. It seemed more like a “play stands” call to me. And I can understand why opposing fans would have a hard time with the call.
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That would have been a sane explanation, as opposed to the ball moving nonsense that was trotted out.
Note that OSU was the next team to score any points after that play. Say all you want, but your team still had plenty of chances to close out the game.
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Which if Clemson doesn't rally, means they fall behind by 2 scores.

OSU absolutely let Clemson linger too long when they could have buried them. They also had some brutal luck.

- A fumbled punt return would have been a very ironic end to a Clemson-OSU bowl game, yet the ball miraculously died right next to the offending party.

- They lost 3/4 of the replays, all of which overturned calls on the field and essentially cost them 21 pts.

- The replay they won was blown dead mid-run, and Day was pretty unhappy because JK had a very solid chance 1v1 against your safety, as opposed to trying to grind in a score against your terrific redzone D.

- OSU's next stud WR in the NFL reversed out of a sure TD (almost identical to the previous one), and did so at the precise moment to let the DB make a great play and keep tracking the football. Cut a split second earlier and it falls harmlessly to the turf. Don't cut and it's pretty unlikely that the safety closes that fast to stop that.

And the elephant in the room, they couldn't stop Trevor's tremendous feet. If you would have told me going into it that they would almost eliminate Trevor's arm completely, shut down Travis on the ground and force Trevor to beat OSU almost exclusively with his feet, I would have been ecstatic.
clemsonstud05 said:
Even though you think otherwise, none of those games you mentioned were anywhere near the same stage as the CFP. It’s a different beast.

I actually think you proved my point at the end of your post. You said you weren’t playing teams that could make you pay for your mistakes. Well that comes with experience.

The easiest comparison is when Clemson went to the 2015 title game and came up just short against Bama. Most would say we were clearly the better team that game...but for a few mistakes. We still had chances to win, but couldn’t seal the deal. We were inexperienced.

Clemson then came back the next year and won it all (in the closing seconds of the game, Watson to Renfrow). We learned what it took to win that type of game from the loss the year prior. We saw a more experienced team do it, and we adapted. This is exactly what OSU needs to do. And I will say that it’s just as helpful for the coaches as it is for the players. You may not think it now, but even in a loss, this experience may still help your team for years to come.
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I'd also submit that because of how great Trevor has been (and dominant overall for your team), Clemson has not taken body blows like that to their souls since Sep 2018.

They were shell shocked for most of that half with zero points (and to your point, OSU should have buried them then instead of FGs). Then Wade was booted and everything changed. This is not surprising, as Michigan had a field day when Wade was missing.
 
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clemsonstud05 said:
For a message board poster on another team’s website, I’m about as unbiased as they get. I think some of you guys need to man up, take off the tinfoil hats and scarlet glasses, and realize that your team just wasn’t ready for the moment. I thought you had the better team that day, but experience won the game. Clemson has been there recently and the team capitalized on the moment. OSU’s inexperience showed in not being able to close-out the game when they had plenty of chances to at the end. It’s as simple as that.

I know what hard losses feel like (I’m also a diehard Philly sports fan). I’m old enough to have been through some pretty crappy years with most of the teams I root for. Sometimes you just need to tip your cap and move on with some dignity. It’s just a game; it’s not life
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Thanks. It is nice to see fans from other teams and this is a pretty measured, level headed post.

I'm guilty of some venting, it happens but 100% agree it's not life and death, it's just football.

I would refine, somewhat, your point about a team not being ready for the moment. There is 100% merit to that, OSU had the chance with the ball in their offenses hands to win the game and they failed to do so. Period. The refinement comes from saying that in some games, one team loses it more than another team wins it. This is one of those.

The conspiracy theory narrative from OSU fans is a bad look, I'll give you that but the "championship teams find a way/heart of a champion" stuff from the Clemson side is equally off base. Clemon's grittiness had nothing to do with the Olave being 1:1 with a safety for the game and breaking his route off.
 
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jwinslow said:
It was not conclusive. Had it been called incomplete, that should have withstood replay as well.
That would have been a sane explanation, as opposed to the ball moving nonsense that was trotted out.
Which if Clemson doesn't rally, means they fall behind by 2 scores.

OSU absolutely let Clemson linger too long when they could have buried them. They also had some brutal luck.

- A fumbled punt return would have been a very ironic end to a Clemson-OSU bowl game, yet the ball miraculously died right next to the offending party.

- They lost 3/4 of the replays, all of which overturned calls on the field and essentially cost them 21 pts.

- The replay they won was blown dead mid-run, and Day was pretty unhappy because JK had a very solid chance 1v1 against your safety, as opposed to trying to grind in a score against your terrific redzone D.

- OSU's next stud WR in the NFL reversed out of a sure TD (almost identical to the previous one), and did so at the precise moment to let the DB make a great play and keep tracking the football. Cut a split second earlier and it falls harmlessly to the turf. Don't cut and it's pretty unlikely that the safety closes that fast to stop that.

And the elephant in the room, they couldn't stop Trevor's tremendous feet. If you would have told me going into it that they would almost eliminate Trevor's arm completely, shut down Travis on the ground and force Trevor to beat OSU almost exclusively with his feet, I would have been ecstatic.

I'd also submit that because of how great Trevor has been (and dominant overall for your team), Clemson has not taken body blows like that to their souls since Sep 2018.

They were shell shocked for most of that half with zero points (and to your point, OSU should have buried them then instead of FGs). Then Wade was booted and everything changed. This is not surprising, as Michigan had a field day when Wade was missing.
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All scenarios that everyone is bringing to the table involve assumptions. Yes, Clemson may not have rallied if the fumble/TD stood and then went down 2 possessions. But that didn’t happen, so it’s impossible to know if that assumption is correct. Clemson also could have come back and won by 2 TDs. It just doesn’t work that way with hypotheticals.

I’m not going to go into great detail about the missed opportunities/calls that you listed. All I’ll say is I can find just as many that didn’t go Clemson’s way (missed pick 6’s, holding calls, etc.). These things happen in every game. And as a fan of a particular team, we typically selectively pick out the negatives that went against our team rather than the positives in a loss.

It’s human reason to want to blame something. Many of you are still angry and reaching for explanations. But I’ve already given you the most logical explanation that many of you simply won’t accept. These are growing pains. Your team, and coach, will be better because of it.
 
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Jake said:
No matter who wins the final game I'll never be convinced this year's Bucks weren't one of the top two teams in the country.

A lot, a helluva lot, had to go wrong for Clemson to squeak by - some self-inflicted, some imposed. Definitely a missed opportunity.
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and when you are in one of these "talent equitable" type games, one team has to be quite a bit better than the other to have that many calls and that many self inflicted wounds still leave the outcome in doubt.
 
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clemsonstud05 said:
All scenarios that everyone is bringing to the table involve assumptions. Yes, Clemson may not have rallied if the fumble/TD stood and then went down 2 possessions. But that didn’t happen, so it’s impossible to know if that assumption is correct. Clemson also could have come back and won by 2 TDs. It just doesn’t work that way with hypotheticals.
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Absolutely. It's just gut wrenching to have all of the momentum going Clemson's way, then suddenly have a game changing play, and have it overturned because referees have no idea what indisputable meant. That's why OSU went for a blocked punt (and had a debatable severity of penalty).

Your guy has massive hands. He had that ball secured the entire time, then Okudah reached in on step 4 to swat it out. It wasn't that different than the 2 pt catch, but humans perceive endzone catches different than ones made in traffic.
I’m not going to go into great detail about the missed opportunities/calls that you listed. All I’ll say is I can find just as many that didn’t go Clemson’s way (missed pick 6’s, holding calls, etc.). These things happen in every game. And as a fan of a particular team, we typically selectively pick out the negatives that went against our team rather than the positives in a loss.

It’s human reason to want to blame something. Many of you are still angry and reaching for explanations. But I’ve already given you the most logical explanation that many of you simply won’t accept. These are growing pains. Your team, and coach, will be better because of it.
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There certainly were 1-2 pick sixes. OSU had one they dropped as well.

If they had ruled the fumble incomplete on the field, I think people would feel very differently today. They could point to the game changing disqualification of Wade, or the many times OSU should have scored but didn't.

Do not mistake our frustration with bile towards you. I hope you stick around, even if we will back our Athens boy to close it out :wink:
 
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Jaxbuck said:
Thanks. It is nice to see fans from other teams and this is a pretty measured, level headed post.

I'm guilty of some venting, it happens but 100% agree it's not life and death, it's just football.

I would refine, somewhat, your point about a team not being ready for the moment. There is 100% merit to that, OSU had the chance with the ball in their offenses hands to win the game and they failed to do so. Period. The refinement comes from saying that in some games, one team loses it more than another team wins it. This is one of those.

The conspiracy theory narrative from OSU fans is a bad look, I'll give you that but the "championship teams find a way/heart of a champion" stuff from the Clemson side is equally off base. Clemon's grittiness had nothing to do with the Olave being 1:1 with a safety for the game and breaking his route off.
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Grittiness is how the defense kept Clemson on life support when Trevor was completely overwhelmed. Grittiness is getting late stops in the red zone. Grittiness is getting up after getting your soul crushed in by a team that is whipping you upfront for a half, and then a brutal hit that would have knocked more mortal beings out of the game.

Grittiness is finding a way to win when the defense takes away what you do best. Kudos to Trevor for doing that.

Grittiness is digging deep when Clemson is threatening to run away with the 3rd quarter, and JK has one foot. Grittiness is fighting despite the ball not bouncing your way.

Like I said before, you need to be great and lucky. OSU was neither. Both were supremely gifted squads. Neither played a great game on that pathetic excuse for a field, but both showed a lot of poise and heart, and Clemson pulled it out.
 
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BB73 said:
I finally watched the game again. Took me six days before I was able to deal with it.

Everything's been said about it. Still tough to take, but I like our chances next year.
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Going to be a long wait, even when the season starts. 13 games with little or no margin for error just to get back to this point. It's like having to replay an entire video game without any save points. You really only need to get back to the last two bosses, but you can't loose focus once or it'll be the same as this year.
 
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*Me: watching the Bucks go 0-2 on Redzone passes not made errant by the Clemson defense

jwinslow said:
Grittiness is getting late stops in the red zone.
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Also me:

tenor.gif
 
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Jaxbuck said:
Thanks. It is nice to see fans from other teams and this is a pretty measured, level headed post.

I'm guilty of some venting, it happens but 100% agree it's not life and death, it's just football.

I would refine, somewhat, your point about a team not being ready for the moment. There is 100% merit to that, OSU had the chance with the ball in their offenses hands to win the game and they failed to do so. Period. The refinement comes from saying that in some games, one team loses it more than another team wins it. This is one of those.

The conspiracy theory narrative from OSU fans is a bad look, I'll give you that but the "championship teams find a way/heart of a champion" stuff from the Clemson side is equally off base. Clemon's grittiness had nothing to do with the Olave being 1:1 with a safety for the game and breaking his route off.
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I'm sorry but I have to call bullshit on this guy. He's a fucking orange and purple WolvereneMike/[worst version of] Gatorubet in the middle of the Tressel ordeal. He's a troll with a Mr. Rogers smile. Never doing enough to get banned, but enjoying every minute of his schadenfreude. I ain't buying his aww shucks, you'll get it next time and the psychobabble horseshit.
 
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