PapaBucks;876925; said:
If Kyle was redshirted there, I would think the chances of Dan also getting redshirted aren't all that remote...
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- Thread starter AMISH-SLAYER
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If Kyle was redshirted there, I would think the chances of Dan also getting redshirted aren't all that remote...
bucksdomination
Junior
Gotta wonder why the potential of the redshirt?
Question here:
Since the picture 2 pages back shows McCarthy pretty darn ripped, let me ask why even a potential of redshirting? I suppose he could get bigger, but you also don't want to reduce speed, since he is a DB. My thoughts on the possibilities:
1.) Maybe to improve speed/footwork/quickness.
2.) Maybe the technique is poor.
3.) Players in front are better.
4.) Having trouble picking up defensive schemes.
For those of you with D1 college level experience, here is my big question. Does it usually take a long time for a FS/SS like McCarthy (and DBs in general) to transition to college ball? I would think not based on the emphasis on speed & hitting. Don't most people think OL/QB as the hardest positons to start early?
Just wondering in McCarthy's case (if he actually DID come our way), how quickly could he transition to playing time. I know JT could always put him on Special Teams while he acclimates himself, but we turn over DBs so quickly in this program that it would be nice to have another ready-made safety from Ohio come in.
MililaniBuckeye;876927; said:
Question here:
Since the picture 2 pages back shows McCarthy pretty darn ripped, let me ask why even a potential of redshirting? I suppose he could get bigger, but you also don't want to reduce speed, since he is a DB. My thoughts on the possibilities:
1.) Maybe to improve speed/footwork/quickness.
2.) Maybe the technique is poor.
3.) Players in front are better.
4.) Having trouble picking up defensive schemes.
For those of you with D1 college level experience, here is my big question. Does it usually take a long time for a FS/SS like McCarthy (and DBs in general) to transition to college ball? I would think not based on the emphasis on speed & hitting. Don't most people think OL/QB as the hardest positons to start early?
Just wondering in McCarthy's case (if he actually DID come our way), how quickly could he transition to playing time. I know JT could always put him on Special Teams while he acclimates himself, but we turn over DBs so quickly in this program that it would be nice to have another ready-made safety from Ohio come in.
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bucksdomination
Junior
And the question was.........
Yes-I am aware of that. Just about everyone on earth is.
The question WAS a inquiry into why MOST DBs are redshirted. I understand fully (thanks) that many players are redshirted because they lack the physical size to handle the punishment of Big Ten play. This factor does not appear to be much of an issue in McCarthy's case.
Therefore, I wondered why most DBs receive redshirts typically. I am aware that each situation is slightly different, however, I was trying to ascertain if it is exceedingly difficult to adjust to "college speed" at DB vs. other positions on the field.
BuckeyeNation27;876956; said:
Yes-I am aware of that. Just about everyone on earth is.
The question WAS a inquiry into why MOST DBs are redshirted. I understand fully (thanks) that many players are redshirted because they lack the physical size to handle the punishment of Big Ten play. This factor does not appear to be much of an issue in McCarthy's case.
Therefore, I wondered why most DBs receive redshirts typically. I am aware that each situation is slightly different, however, I was trying to ascertain if it is exceedingly difficult to adjust to "college speed" at DB vs. other positions on the field.
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IrishCalves
A fleck of Gold in a sea of Scarlet and Gray
5 minutes too late...gotta edit/think on my feet.
I'm not too too sure about college, but I can say that from college to pros, DB is typically mentioned as the transition. WR's usually take 3 years (for whatever reason), QB's absorb the most, OL has a lot more scheming to learn, RB need to figure out how to pass protect. DL is a lot less "go get 'em!" and a lot more sophisticated. Whereas DB? You pretty much grow up learning all the coverages (Cover 2, 3, 4, man to man, etc), so its just adjusting to the speed of the game.
So, I'd surmise that the top reason for DB redshirts are either depth chart related, or needing to bulk up. In the case of McCarthy, both OSU and ND have a lot of DB's already there, so a redshirt isn't out of the question altogether.
I'm not too too sure about college, but I can say that from college to pros, DB is typically mentioned as the transition. WR's usually take 3 years (for whatever reason), QB's absorb the most, OL has a lot more scheming to learn, RB need to figure out how to pass protect. DL is a lot less "go get 'em!" and a lot more sophisticated. Whereas DB? You pretty much grow up learning all the coverages (Cover 2, 3, 4, man to man, etc), so its just adjusting to the speed of the game.
So, I'd surmise that the top reason for DB redshirts are either depth chart related, or needing to bulk up. In the case of McCarthy, both OSU and ND have a lot of DB's already there, so a redshirt isn't out of the question altogether.
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McCarthy would be hard pressed to find time in this rotation. Playing special teams sometimes has value, but if he'll still face a loaded depth chart in his second year... a redshirt year could be helpful to create separation.
Here is McCarthy's freshman year competition at Ohio State:
RS Jr - Russell (returning for 3rd yr as starter)
Jr - Coleman (3rd yr in DB rotation, potential returning starter)
Sr - O'Neal (3rd yr in DB rotation, former starter)
Jr - Gant (3rd yr in DB rotation)
RS So - Schwartz (2nd yr in DB rotation)
Plus 2nd year guys like Oliver, Pentello, Moeller (as a safety), and possibly Clifford.
Here is McCarthy's freshman year competition at Ohio State:
RS Jr - Russell (returning for 3rd yr as starter)
Jr - Coleman (3rd yr in DB rotation, potential returning starter)
Sr - O'Neal (3rd yr in DB rotation, former starter)
Jr - Gant (3rd yr in DB rotation)
RS So - Schwartz (2nd yr in DB rotation)
Plus 2nd year guys like Oliver, Pentello, Moeller (as a safety), and possibly Clifford.
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bucksdomination
Junior
Agreed, but...
With O'Neal gone & additionally, don't most people feel that Russell will be gone if he comes back from injury and has an excellent year? Common belief is that he will be gone anyway. Not sure about the prospect for Coleman or Gant leaving (any possiblity here?)
I, like most, loved what I saw out of Moeller. Just wondering if all the quality we have is another solid factor (besides his brother) pushing McCarthy South Bend way. I admit I figured we were fighting an uphill battle, just hate to lose a talented Ohio kid.
:osu:
jwinslow;876970; said:
With O'Neal gone & additionally, don't most people feel that Russell will be gone if he comes back from injury and has an excellent year? Common belief is that he will be gone anyway. Not sure about the prospect for Coleman or Gant leaving (any possiblity here?)
I, like most, loved what I saw out of Moeller. Just wondering if all the quality we have is another solid factor (besides his brother) pushing McCarthy South Bend way. I admit I figured we were fighting an uphill battle, just hate to lose a talented Ohio kid.
:osu:
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bucksdomination;876972; said:
O'Neal gone after this season? Based on what? Seriously.
As for Russell, he has what, a half-season total experience going into this season? I don't care how much he tears it up this season, no way he jumps to the NFL based on one full year as a starter and barely over that in total experience.
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IrishCalves
A fleck of Gold in a sea of Scarlet and Gray
bucksdomination;876972; said:
I can tell you that there are plenty of DBs in South Bend as well. When he shows up as a freshman, there'll be 7 safeties on the roster, and after his 2nd year there should be 5.
Point being, if he's down to ND and OSU, I don't think the depth chart will be the thing that tips the scale either way, 'cause they're both pretty full.
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bucksdomination;876966; said:
A good question that I will attempt to answer:
1. Most, but not all, recruited HS defensive backs are two-way players. Usually, they are very talented speed guys, who are integral parts of their HS offense. Often times, it's a lack of technique that leads to a redshirt.
2. As you alluded to in your post, "speed of the game" is a huge factor. For the first time, on a consistent basis, these athletes are being challenged on every play.
3. With the advent of nickel and dime packages, defensive coordinators are asking DB's to perform as pass rushers, pick up run reads, adjust to formations, and the subsequent motion to change the formation (and thus the responsibility within the package), and then adjust accordingly. The ability to think in a split second is critical. For a youngster who often was asked in high school to "go blanket the opposition's best guy", this is a lot to ask.
4. I'll call this "the ability to forget." Some kids are simply shocked that there are others out there that are their athletic equal. After getting burned a couple of times, some guys struggle mentally to deal with it, especially after being the HS stud.
I've stated this in other posts. It's a big jump from high school to college, physically and mentally, and it's the rare athlete who makes a huge impact in their freshman year, regardless of position. And, if the guy has a super frosh year, you can bet that he'll be gone after three years.
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bucksdomination
Junior
Look at jwinslow's post above...
The reason I said that about JamO, was because jwinslow posted him as a SENIOR.
I was thinking to myself last night that it couldn't have been right, but I was just too lazy to go back and check the roster. Sorry for the mixup.
I agree 100% after watching him last year that JamO isn't ready at all (good thing he will only be a JUNIOR then) for any professional football league.
Thanks to others for the indepth responses. Therefore, it appears that in either place, McCarthy is going to either redshirt or see limited playing time (special teams). Heard his comments about "playing on the same field with his brother" and that might be explaining a lot. I have to wonder if Charlie is spreading the "Playing for the NC in 2008"/"building the program" Kool-Aid that the ND fans are remarking about. Take your lumps this year, and play for it all in 2008. Just think that if ND people (staff & fans) are selling that to kids like McCarthy and others:
1.) What does that say about THIS season.
2.) Strange things can happen. I have told my buddies who are diehard domers that they had better temper that enthusiasm until CW wins a bowl game. Hasn't been pretty so far.
MililaniBuckeye;876975; said:
The reason I said that about JamO, was because jwinslow posted him as a SENIOR.
I was thinking to myself last night that it couldn't have been right, but I was just too lazy to go back and check the roster. Sorry for the mixup.
I agree 100% after watching him last year that JamO isn't ready at all (good thing he will only be a JUNIOR then) for any professional football league.
Thanks to others for the indepth responses. Therefore, it appears that in either place, McCarthy is going to either redshirt or see limited playing time (special teams). Heard his comments about "playing on the same field with his brother" and that might be explaining a lot. I have to wonder if Charlie is spreading the "Playing for the NC in 2008"/"building the program" Kool-Aid that the ND fans are remarking about. Take your lumps this year, and play for it all in 2008. Just think that if ND people (staff & fans) are selling that to kids like McCarthy and others:
1.) What does that say about THIS season.
2.) Strange things can happen. I have told my buddies who are diehard domers that they had better temper that enthusiasm until CW wins a bowl game. Hasn't been pretty so far.
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bucksdomination;877138; said:
jwins said O'Neal would be a senior during McCarthy's freshman year, not that he's a senior this season and would be gone when McCarthy arrived.
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gcmsc
Sophmore
Great article on bucknuts (independent site free). In an interview with o-line recruit , Mike Brewster, he says while talking to Dan about joining him at tOSU, DM told him he is "confused" still about a decision.
I guess that means it's still up in the air. DM stopped by the camp for a short time and Brewster, who is working his ... off trying to convince guys to join the group, says he calls Dan often to talk. He also said, he and Dan hit it off great.
This process seems to be taking many twists and turns. I don't think anyone knows for sure what the ending will be, not even Dan as of NOW.
I guess that means it's still up in the air. DM stopped by the camp for a short time and Brewster, who is working his ... off trying to convince guys to join the group, says he calls Dan often to talk. He also said, he and Dan hit it off great.
This process seems to be taking many twists and turns. I don't think anyone knows for sure what the ending will be, not even Dan as of NOW.
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