Pierre Dorion Speaks: Englund/Robinson, Prospects, the Karlsson Window, Playoffs
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Thanks to the combination of the Senators losing last night’s game to the Philadelphia Flyers coupled with a variety of injuries necessitating a shake-up of the roster, Senators general manager Pierre Dorion jumped onto
TSN 1200’s ‘In the Box’ yesterday to discuss the latest state of affairs.
I recommend that you listen to the full interview by using the embedded media player at the bottom of this post since I didn’t transcribe the entire thing – just the stuff I found most important.
As always my thoughts are in
bold.
On Fredrik Claesson’s injury last night and the injury troubles facing Methot and whether the Senators had made a decision on what they would do to fill those voids…
“Yes, breaking news: Methot we’re hopeful for tomorrow. Freddy Claesson has injured his hip and has been placed on IR. Because we’re hopeful for Marc to play tomorrow, we’ve called up Andreas Englund. Also another player transaction today: we’ve sent Max McCormick back (to Binghamton) and we’ve called up Buddy Robinson for tomorrow night’s game.”
Brexit v2.0: Englund has left Binghamton.
If Methot cannot dress tomorrow, Englund will make his NHL debut. The Senators’ second round pick from the 2014 NHL Draft hasn’t had the most heralded ascent to the game’s highest level and yeah, he probably got the promotion a lot earlier than many had anticipated, but the prospect is renowned for his defensive acumen – which is pretty fucking awesome considering the Senators’ need for improvement on the blue line.
Coming into play tonight, the Senators are in the bottom third of the league in average shots allowed per game (31.1, T-21st) and the fifth-highest volume of 5v5 shots (59.46 CA/60) and were tied for the fourth-highest 5v5 shots on goal rate (31.41 SA/60) per Corsica.Hockey.
Englund may not be an instant fix that many fans crave, but he could potentially (and hopefully) be part of the solution somewhere down the road.
On Andreas Englund earning the opportunity to play in the NHL…
“What’s good is that all the time, Randy Lee always talks with Kurt (Kleinendorst) on a daily basis and with Randy been gone to Sweden and Finland for the past nine or ten days, Kurt and I have discussed quite regularly. And he’s expressed to us, concerning Andreas, that ‘Andreas has been our steadiest and best defenceman.’ Being a left-hand shot and not knowing with Marc (whether he’s going to play) tomorrow probably makes it easier to call up a left-hand shot defenceman, but at the same time, I’ve always believed that (promotions are) on merit. It might be sooner than we wanted to with Englund, calling him up, but if you deserve it, you should be here. And we’re not sure he’s going to play because if Marc plays, we’re going to go with our six regular guys. But, if he doesn’t play, Andreas will get his first NHL game.”
Through 18 AHL games, Englund had a goal and four assists. The offensive numbers aren’t overwhelming, but that facet of the game isn’t his bread and butter.
Even though I don’t give much credence to the plus/minus statistic, it’s worth noting that of the Binghamton regulars, only Englund and Perron had positive ratings. It may be a token stat, but it’s impossible to ignore how fucking terrible Binghamton is in relation to the rest of the league.
Their 5-12-2 record (.316) is the league’s worst and with the exception of a few prospects like the aforementioned Perron and Englund, there just isn’t a whole hell of a lot to be excited about down on the farm – which may help explain why Englund received the promotion. Like in the past, Ottawa’s prospects are continually being pushed through the system faster than forecasted simply because the alternatives are awful.
On what the though process is sending Max McCormick down and promoting Buddy Robinson…
“The thought process is that in talking with Kurt over the last few days, Buddy according to Steve (Stirling) who’s been with the organization and Kurt, has been our best forward. Steve Stirling has said that this is the best hockey that he’s been playing. Losing Bobby who’s a right winger and probably moving Curtis (Lazar) back to the fourth line with Chris Kelly and Chris Neil is the indication that Guy (Boucher) gave me, it just felt like we needed to give Buddy another shot here. Both my philosophy, Randy Lee’s philosophy, Bryan Murray’s philosophy in the past, Daniel Alfredsson’s philosophy is we reward whoever we feel or the coaches in Binghamton feel is playing the best. At this point in time, I think with Buddy’s speed, his size and the possibility of us going on the west coast playing bigger teams, (promoting him) might not be the worst thing to do.”
What’s interesting to note is that Buddy Robinson has three goals in 18 AHL games with Binghamton this season, but as one Binghamton fan noted to me, two of those goals came in the same game when Ottawa management was present to take it all in.
Robinson did get a cup of coffee with the Senators at the tail end of the 2015-16 season when he tallied a goal and an assist in three games, so I hope this isn’t a case where recency bias played too large a part in the promotion.
Ideally, there would be worthier candidates of a promotion, but again, when we’re talking about one of the worst AHL teams, it’s hard to get too worked up over this. Maybe a guy like Casey Bailey or Phil Varone warranted a look, but Robinson has the combination of size, speed and physicality that Sens management has a tendency to gush over.
It’s always felt like he was one of their guys.
On whether the play of Casey Bailey potentially warranted a promotion…
“Yeah, that was the decision for us. I’m probably telling you too much right away, but that was the decision. We had three guys actually. We had Michael Blunden, Casey Bailey and Buddy Robinson and all three were given serious consideration. There’s the chance that we could call up another one of those guys when we go on the (west coast) trip because there’s a good chance that once we go on the trip, if Bobby (Ryan) can’t come that we will go with 13 forwards and seven defencemen.”
With the start of December and the accompanying difficult trip, we may be looking back in a month’s time and thanking the hockey gods that the Senators banked as many points against soft competition as they did. Their margin of error is a little bit larger because of it and if they can actually win their fair share of games in December, it will set the team up really well for a playoff push.
On updating Bobby Ryan’s status…
“Bobby went on the IR following the game on Tuesday against Buffalo, so we hope… we’re going to decide in the next few days if he’s coming on the trip. His first availability would be against San Jose in San Jose. Initially on Wednesday, we were fearing for something worse, but yesterday we got some good news and there’s a chance he accompanies us on the trip. I put (the odds of that at) 50/50. So if he accompanies us on the trip, there’s a chance he’ll play. I’ve got to give Bobby a lot of credit. People don’t know how many injuries he’s played through here and getting his hand frozen and playing with pain. I’ve just made an executive decision. I said, ‘We’re not going to go through what we’ve gone through in the past few years with Bobby.’ We’re just going to let him heal up and make sure he’s close to 100-percent so he can give us the best hockey. At that point in time, he’ll be back in our lineup.”
I respect the hell out of athletes whose resiliency allows them to push through various injuries, but over the past few seasons, it’s been impossible not to notice how much the injuries have impacted Ryan’s performance. With that in mind, who can blame the organization for wanting him to get healthy before he makes a return?
On how active he is in trying to make the team better through trade…
“Very.”
On how close he is to making that kind of move…
“You’re never close. You think you’re close, but then the next call you make, you find out you weren’t that close. I’ve worked the phones quite a bit. In the last three days, it’s been three very active days. We’ve gotten off to a good start. I’m very happy with where we are right now, but I don’t want us to fall back in the standings, so it’s up to me. It’s on my shoulders to make sure this path continues and putting it on our coaches and players also.”
This is a very dangerous position to operate in as a general manager. On one hand, he’s thinking about the importance of keeping his organization in the playoff hunt and placating his owner’s impulses. On the other hand, he has to look at his team critically and identify ways to improve the team without sacrificing too much for some modest short-term results.
On what kind of prospective trade he’s working on: a depth forward or a more impactful player…
“We’re looking at depth guys. Bigger fish aren’t really available at this point and time of the year. Those deals are mostly made in the offseason, but whether it’s a forward or a defenceman, I’m always looking to improve (the roster).”
The thing about being an armchair quarterback and analyzing the Senators’ situation is that there are plenty of readily identifiable spots where it wouldn’t take much to upgrade the position.
Why hasn’t the organization made moves to address these spots?
Loyalty. Leadership. Character to name a few.
There’s a human element influencing decisions and I’m sure that the intangibles or pedigree of certain players like Curtis Lazar have also played a role in allowing that player to get more opportunities than more deserving alternatives, but management needs to take ownership for being complicit in how the quality of the depth forwards has suffered in recent seasons.
On the Condon trade being an example of small moves that can help the team maintain its competitiveness…
“Yeah, exactly. I think as an organization, we’re not afraid to give up picks or I won’t call them blue-chip prospects. Like, we won’t be trading Colin White, Logan Brown or Thomas Chabot, those guys are pretty much untradeable unless we get a huge piece on the other side. But, other guys can be moved so we can see some improvement right now. Arguably, we have one of the most dynamic players in the game and
the best defenceman in the game no matter what anyone tries to tell me. We have a piece that we have to build upon. I think our goaltending speaks for itself this year and has spoken for itself the last few years, so we
have to make sure that we give our best chance… I’m not talking Stanley Cup, but to get us into the playoffs – that’s what we have to do as an organization.”
I read this answer and I think it speaks volumes about how much pressure ownership is putting on management to reach the playoffs.
In a way, it’s kind of reminiscent of the first few years of the Bryan Murray era when he desperately kept flipping draft picks in hopes of giving his 2007 Stanley Cup core every opportunity to prove they could get back to that level without any kind of acceptance or recognition that the team’s window of contention closed with that one Stanley Cup appearance.
I can’t emphasize enough how making the playoffs with the way that the Senators have been operated for the past number of years is such a low bar to clear. Senators fans deserve better.
On the belief that Karlsson is in his prime and how the organization feels compelled to try and win in this window for him…
“Yeah, without a doubt. When you have one of the best players in the league in his prime, you have to put pieces around him. Now it’s always easier said than done. I’ve said on multiple (occasions) that I’ll play Playstation 4 with my son and he makes trades and he builds good teams. It’s not quite like that in the NHL, so it’s just about adding… we’re never going to add a Sidney Crosby to our lineup, but adding pieces to our lineup that can help us win – whether it’s a move like Condon or another along those lines – I think it’s our responsibility to do so.”
Looking at Erik Karlsson’s skating ability, I view him through a different prism than many of the players in this league. He’s so fluid and dynamic with his skating ability that I put him on a different level which will hopefully allow him to age gracefully like a Scott Niedermayer. I’m hopeful that with this kind of aging curve that it gives the Senators a longer window of contention than this perception that the team needs to win with Karlsson playing through the prime years of his career. (As an aside, I recognize that a lot of fans look at Karlsson’s contract and recognize that it only has two more years left on it at the conclusion of the 2016-17 season, but at this point, there’s nothing to suggest that Karlsson wants to leave and we have no idea what kind of terms he’d be looking for on his next deal.)
Granted, there’s something to be said about how rare it is to get a generational player in his prime, but hockey isn’t a sport where one talent can push a team to contention alone. Karlsson needs help and has needed help for some time.
Having been drafted in the first round of the 2008 NHL Draft, ideally, the Senators could have surrounded him with similarly aged players in the hopes that this young core would age together and age well and give the team its best opportunity to win.
The Senators have struggled to do this.
Their first and second round picks that principally give the team the best odds of discovering higher end talent have either fizzled (Cowen, Ceci, Lazar, Puempel) or were packaged away in trades (Zibanejad, Noesen, Silfverberg) for older players in trades that were designed to boost the team’s short-term results.
The overhyped 2011 rebuild that was sold as the organization returning to its roots to return a contender to a budget-conscious team was abandoned quickly after the team improbably reached the playoffs the following year during the lockout shortened season.
The short-term results simply haven’t been there and it has contributed to the team being mired in a state where the drafting and outside additions haven’t been enough to push the team past its status as a playoff bubble team.
There’s no question that Dorion is in a tough spot trying to meet ownership’s mandate to reach the postseason, but at some point, he might have to take an honest look at his club and decide whether the current roster composition is worth giving repeated opportunities, whether larger shakeups are needed or whether the organization should be looking at the next generation of highly though of prospects – Colin White, Logan Brown and Thomas Chabot – are the ones that he could focus on building around with Karlsson in the mix.
For a small market team, it’s unquestionably tough
On whether the vision Guy Boucher sold in the offseason is taking hold for the Senators now…
“I’ll go on the record: of all the things I’ve done so far as general manager, hiring Guy Boucher and this staff with Marc Crawford, Marty Raymond, Rob Cookson, Pierre Groulx and Kris Young is the best thing I’ve done hands down. It’s exactly what he had said. ‘Pierre, at the start we might be boring. I’ll open it up after six weeks,’ he said. ‘We’ll start seeing improvement,’ and I’ve seen that. I think they’ll start opening it up a bit more offensively as the season goes on, but still keeping the same defensive structure. Our penalty killing, I think is 10th now or in the top-ten. If I’m off, I apologize. After last night, I thought we moved into 10 or 11 or around there. Our power play has been much better, though it has had its struggles early on. But no, it’s exactly what I envisioned.”
The team’s had some success under Boucher, so it definitely looks good on paper. Dumping Alex Chiasson was solid as well, but a no-brainer and the Zibanejad/Brassard trade certainly hasn’t worked out well. It’s still early in the season however, but it’s hard to argue with Dorion’s assertion that this hire was his best move.
On a completely different note, what happened to PR Dorion?
It’s one thing to talk about how this team isn’t close to Stanley Cup contention, it’s another to admit that his team is boring to watch now. Sure, he’s trying to upsell how the entertainment value should improve as the team opens it up down the stretch and the special teams continue to improve, but come PR, don’t acknowledge publicly that this team is boring and has modest objectives.
On Clarke MacArthur making progress towards a return…
“No, I think Clarke is making progress. Again, this is a very boring answer, but the doctors will decide at the end of the day. Clarke wants to play, we want him to play, he’s been around the team and I think there’s a chance he comes on the California trip, but again, if I’m off on this, I apologize. We’ve talked about this. He’s getting closer. There’s progress that’s been made. He will play this year, 100-percent. Not 99-percent. He will play, so that is another guy back in our lineup that we know that can help us.”
If Clarke MacArthur plays, it’s going to be impossible to watch an individual shift without repeating the words, “Please don’t get hurt. Please don’t get hurt. Please don’t get hurt,” out loud.
On whether there is any thought to filling the assistant general manager role that he left vacant…
“Down the road, maybe. I think we’re the smallest management staff in the league, but that doesn’t mean… I think that’s something that we’ll look at down the road. Being an assistant GM, you have to have some kind of background – whether it’s in coaching, scouting, player personnel, player development — whether you’re a player or not, but you have to have NHL experience in those fields. I thought I could have been ready to be an assistant GM after a few years of scouting and it would have been the furthest thing from the truth. At this point in time, down the road I think we’ll look at it, but Randy Lee does a lot. He’s my right-hand man and I’ve got two good advisors in Bryan Murray and Daniel Alfredsson that I include in a lot of decision-making here. They are very respectful in that they know at the end of the day that I have the final say, but they know they have input in what we do. We have coaches that have a lot of experience here, so they’re involved in everything we do. We work as a group, but at the end of the day, they know I make the call. But at some point in time, we will look at it.”
Reading into his comments, it sounds like there simply isn’t an internal candidate in Dorion’s opinion who is ready to fill the void left by him. Maybe eventually that person will be Daniel Alfredsson, but I think a lot of fans cynically look at the current management hierarchy and ownership and view the restructuring as being an instance where everything new is old again – that the philosophies and priorities haven’t shifted from the previous regime.
Dorion and his coaching staff haven’t really been given that much time yet, so they deserve a bit more time before any conclusions or assessments can be drawn, but this is the reality of what Dorion’s up against.
Thanks to the resources online and how social media and instant analysis have helped shape the way that fans enjoy the game of hockey, the Senators’ fan base has never been more tuned into the way this organization operates. Despite some of the post-game calls that we hear on TSN 1200, this fan base has never been more refined and dialed in.
On the impending expansion draft and whether he’s in any negotiations with any pending free agents to extend their contracts…
“We’ll worry about Florida on Saturday. Just go on history. History sometimes predicates what’s going to happen in the future. We’ve only lost Erik Condra to free agency and you know the Erik Condra story. The agent came to me and said, ‘We’d like two years.’ We offered two years and then he turned around and said he got three years somewhere else and I said, ‘Best of luck to Erik Condra’. So everyone else we’ve signed, right? Let’s not panic.”
I don’t think anyone’s panicking about the expansion draft or worried about who the Senators can lose. To the contrary, fans are thinking about which player’s departure would be most beneficial to the team’s long-term outlook.
On another note, I get why Dorion’s playing up the fact that the Senators have signed all these impending free agents, but it kind of ignores the reality that not every contract extension should be lauded.
Hell, you just have to look at last year’s Dion Phaneuf trade to understand why not every player should have their contract extended.
Colin Greening, Milan Michalek, Jared Cowen and hell, even Bobby Ryan are all examples of players that the Senators re-signed where diminished returns on the cost of the contract are very, very real.
I’d rather an organization recognize factors indicating that a player’s never going to be better and make informed decisions based off that fact than have an organization re-sign every player just because they think fans give a shit about a guy like Milan Michalek taking a “hometown discount” to stay in Ottawa when everything pointed towards a player whose game was going down the shitter.
On not panicking but game planning for the expansion draft…
“But, I’m doing it also with the 29 other teams. I haven’t just done it for the Ottawa Senators because if you look at it closely, you know some teams might have goaltender issues, might have defencemen issues, might go the route because a lot of teams you think are going to go seven (forwards), three (defencemen) and one (goaltender) might go the route of the eight (skaters) and one (goaltender). And it’s not jockeying yourself for when it happens at the (expansion) draft, you want to jockey yourself before the trade deadline, so there’s a lot of moving parts here. So no, our fans don’t need to worry. We have it under control. Las Vegas is going to get a good player from us, that’s part of the game. They paid $500-million (in expansion fees), they’re going to get a good player and we have to accept it. Are there going to be side deals? Well, that’s up to them. We can control what we can control and we will do that to the best of our knowledge.”
And maybe they might just get Bobby Ryan.
On whether there are going to be more guys signed to one-year extensions to impact their eligibility for the expansion draft…
“Well, if I’m an agent, maybe I’m telling the GM that I want a two-year extension. You can look at it from both sides of the coin. For us here in Ottawa, we’re going to make sure we do things right here. We know who we can expose and who we can’t expose. We’ve had calls with the league. We knew from day one the Bobby Ryan situation, but no one asked the question. But, we knew exactly that we could expose him – not that we’re going to expose him, whether his production or not, overall, Bobby has been pretty good all year. And we’re missing him right now because he found his niche with (Ryan) Dzingel and (Kyle) Turris. We had two lines that were going to create offence, so we know what’s going on. It would be on me as the head of the hockey (operations department) if I didn’t know what was going on with expansion.”
I don’t know why the Senators would expose Bobby Ryan in the expansion draft either…
On how many prospects he anticipates playing in the upcoming WJHC…
“Colin White, (Thomas) Chabot, Logan Brown, (Jonathan) Dahlen, (Filip) Chlapik – that’s what I’m led to believe.”
The more Sens prospects are in this tournament, the better.
On how Jonathan Dahlen has been playing this year…
“Jonathan’s been playing well. Randy (Lee) just got back from Sweden last night and Finland and he went to see Jonathan Dahlen, he went to see (Markus) Nurmi, he went to see (Christian) Jaros and he went to see (Marcus) Hogberg. The reports on Jaros are glowing and he’s got a chance to step into our lineup next year. Nurmi has got the tools of an NHL player. Dahlen has the skill of an NHL player and we haven’t hidden the fact that most likely we’re going to sign Hogberg. So it’s pretty positive, the news that he went there and I think it’s important for Randy and Shean Donovan. They both went over there and they talked to our guys. They spent time with them and they made sure they’re on the right track because as good as you can draft, if you can develop, (it’s) even better because you know you’re going to have players that are going to play for you.”
There it is. There is the PR Dorion we’ve come to love.
Kidding aside, I’m hopeful that these prospects project favorably as NHL players. With the organization’s willingness to move draft picks to make this team better now, they need these players to pan out so that the system does not thin out too much.
On Maxime Lajoie impressing during training camp and how his season is going…
“Good, good. I would have liked him to get an invitation for the World Juniors, but obviously they’ve got their guys and we’ve always respected that. There are times where guys don’t get World Junior invites like Cody Ceci and they turn out to be good NHL players. Sometimes it’s the type of player they’re looking for, but he’s had a good season in Swift Current. We’ve signed him to a contract, so we have faith that one day he can be an NHL player. He’s a late birthday, so he can challenge to play in Binghamton or go back as an overager in Swift Current. But, he’s someone that really left a good impression on us too in camp. At times, he was better than Thomas Chabot, if we’re truthfully honest. But, that’s camp and it’s not real games, but Thomas was good enough to work his way with our team to start off and I think it was a pretty good experience for him.”
Lajoie looked pretty good at the rookie tournament and he’s carried that play into the regular season. Through 27 games, he has four goals and 15 points to go along with a +8 rating. Considering the lack of prospect depth on the blue line, I’m hopeful that the Senators have another mid-round gem on their hands.
http://proxy.autopod.ca/download/podcasts/chum/179/48515/pierre dorion.mp3
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