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Zach Smith (Official Thread)

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Sparcboxbuck posted this a while back and it's advice Smith could have used many years ago. I removed various items to highlight some points that seem more relevant to this situation.

sparcboxbuck said:
... maybe I just want to talk to my kid the way I wish someone talked to me when I was growing up.

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Life advice to a boy quickly turning into a man.

1. Never put it in Crazy. Crazy is never worth it.

2. If you think you're out with Crazy, run like hell and don't look back.

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5. Again, see rules 1 & 2 because Crazy don't give a fuck.

6. Always understand what you have to gain and lose. Always understand what she has to gain and lose as well. Seek situations where you both have a lot to gain and a lot to lose. Imbalance on either side will cause problems.

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15. Crazy is also likely vindictive which means that seeing you in trouble / pain is a reward for her. See rules 1,2 and 5.

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19. I promise that the next few years will be filled with great love and great heartbreak. My hope for you is more of the former and less of the latter.

20. Regrettably, the latter is inevitable. When it happens, be a man. Be respectful no matter what happens. See items 9 & 10. Also, when it happens, always remember that others _are_ watching... and the next one _will_ consider how you handled yourself. Also see item 11.

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26. Have fun growing into a great young man. Avoid situations and people that are toxic.

27. The golden rule is golden for a good reason.

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We should keep in mind that #15 is as likely a possibility in this situation as anything else. Before we go casting judgement on Urban Meyer, he most likely was very aware of the incidents (admittedly from Zach's side) and perhaps felt there was enough doubt to the allegations to side with him. I don't believe for a minute he would have put either the FL or OSU programs at risk just to appease Earle Bruce, nor would Earle have condoned it if there was belief that Zach was a wife beater.
 
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dozenmonkeyz said:
Sparcboxbuck posted this a while back and it's advice Smith could have used many years ago. I removed various items to highlight some points that seem more relevant to this situation.



We should keep in mind that #15 is as likely a possibility in this situation as anything else. Before we go casting judgement on Urban Meyer, he most likely was very aware of the incidents (admittedly from Zach's side) and perhaps felt there was enough doubt to the allegations to side with him. I don't believe for a minute he would have put either the FL or OSU programs at risk just to appease Earle Bruce, nor would Earle have condoned it if there was belief that Zach was a wife beater.
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Exactly. I'm not following why people are attacking Urban for this. Unless I'm missing something (serious question)? This feels to me like the Zeke thread last year where a few people were overreacting.
 
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BigJim said:
Exactly. I'm not following why people are attacking Urban for this. Unless I'm missing something (serious question)? This feels to me like the Zeke thread last year where a few people were overreacting.
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When dudes are potentially beating their wives, it’s not overreacting to expect the head coach to handle personnel decisions in such a manner that they are addressed. Second chances are sometimes given and people with problems can be provided assistance. But if the leader of an organization continues to ignore such behavior, it’s understandable that folks have a problem.

I don’t know enough to say what’s right or wrong here, but it get why folks would be pissed if Meyer knew Smith was a repeat offender.
 
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Nigel Tufnel said:
When dudes are potentially beating their wives, it’s not overreacting to expect the head coach to handle personnel decisions in such a manner that they are addressed. Second chances are sometimes given and people with problems can be provided assistance. But if the leader of an organization continues to ignore such behavior, it’s understandable that folks have a problem.

I don’t know enough to say what’s right or wrong here, but it get why folks would be pissed if Meyer knew Smith was a repeat offender.
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At this point no one knows if Smith was even a single time offender.
 
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dozenmonkeyz said:
...nor would Earle have condoned it if there was belief that Zach was a wife beater.
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I might be jaded by some recent experiences, but I would never underestimate the ability of parents or grandparents to go into a parallel reality in order to protect them from the painful truth that their beloved little boy is really a (fill in the blank with whatever is bad).

But this thing has so many aspects and ways of looking at it.

Most of us probably know a guy who has the crazy wife, ex, or girlfriend who "weaponizes 9-1-1." On the other hand, that much smoke...

There's the children angle. Zach, you are a dad, and that's their mother, so step up and be smart.

There's a possible alcohol factor given that one of the police reports notes that he was intoxicated - but maybe that was a one-off and not important.

There's the quality of coaching issue: good recruiting with deficiencies in producing WRs that could get off the ball, run precise routes, and be at a spot when they were supposed to be there. They did block downfield well, tho, but our passing game has been shite at times, and it wasn't all the QB's fault. Personally, I have never thought this guy could coach dogs to bark or lead hungry fat men to a buffet line. Which did beg the question, why was he there so long?

Which leads us to Urban's sense of loyalty, and it has been assumed that loyalty was to Coach Bruce, not Coach Smith, but I don't know. It's hard for me to believe Urban ever felt like he was an elite coach.

But if it were loyalty to Earle that was keeping Zach there, Urban would have canned him a month or two after the funeral, I would think. As it is, the timing, right before camp, with recruits in the wind, and the day before Urban speaks would indicate that this is something Gene Smith and/or Urban Meyer felt had to be done now anyway. The reasons for that would be very interesting to know. Perhaps it was nothing more than the evidence they had compelled them, or it may have just been the smartest PR move. But as it always comes down to when a subordinate screws up or embarrasses the organization, the question Urban will be asked and judged on his answer will be, "What did you know, and when did you know it."
 
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Nigel Tufnel said:
When dudes are potentially beating their wives, it’s not overreacting to expect the head coach to handle personnel decisions in such a manner that they are addressed. Second chances are sometimes given and people with problems can be provided assistance. But if the leader of an organization continues to ignore such behavior, it’s understandable that folks have a problem.

I don’t know enough to say what’s right or wrong here, but it get why folks would be pissed if Meyer knew Smith was a repeat offender.
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The bold is my point, why is this being repeated as a given?
 
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OSUK said:
I might be jaded by some recent experiences, but I would never underestimate the ability of parents or grandparents to go into a parallel reality in order to protect them from the painful truth that their beloved little boy is really a (fill in the blank with whatever is bad).

But this thing has so many aspects and ways of looking at it.

Most of us probably know a guy who has the crazy wife, ex, or girlfriend who "weaponizes 9-1-1." On the other hand, that much smoke...

There's the children angle. Zach, you are a dad, and that's their mother, so step up and be smart.

There's a possible alcohol factor given that one of the police reports notes that he was intoxicated - but maybe that was a one-off and not important.

There's the quality of coaching issue: good recruiting with deficiencies in producing WRs that could get off the ball, run precise routes, and be at a spot when they were supposed to be there. They did block downfield well, tho, but our passing game has been shit at times, and it wasn't all the QB's fault. Personally, I have never thought this guy could coach dogs to bark or lead hungry fat men to a buffet line. Which did beg the question, why was he there so long?

Which leads us to Urban's sense of loyalty, and it has been assumed that loyalty was to Coach Bruce, not Coach Smith, but I don't know. It's hard for me to believe Urban ever felt like he was an elite coach.

But if it were loyalty to Earle that was keeping Zach there, Urban would have canned him a month or two after the funeral, I would think. As it is, the timing, right before camp, with recruits in the wind, and the day before Urban speaks would indicate that this is something Gene Smith and/or Urban Meyer felt had to be done now anyway. The reasons for that would be very interesting to know. Perhaps it was nothing more than the evidence they had compelled them, or it may have just been the smartest PR move. But as it always comes down to when a subordinate screws up or embarrasses the organization, the question Urban will be asked and judged on his answer will be, "What did you know, and when did you know it."
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Very reasonable take. Will be anxiously waiting to see Urban's responses as well as how the media decides to follow it up.
 
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I don't understand all the conflict. There's nothing wrong with knowing about a domestic matter that has been or is being handled legally and not firing someone and later firing him for the same/similar conduct or allegations when it becomes publicized and potentially adversely impacts the university. Smith was given a lot of rope and I'm sure the support to get his shyte together, but, as has been said, his body of work was not good enough to get through this round. There's absolutely nothing, certainly not legally, wrong with that or otherwise. Athletes are handled like adults and the coaches should be held to the same standard. That doesn't mean kicking them out immediately. It means assessing the particular situation and dealing with it. Zach had his chance(s). Urban wasn't wrong for not firing him sooner and he's not wrong for having fired him now.
 
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RugbyBuck said:
I don't understand all the conflict. There's nothing wrong with knowing about a domestic matter that has been or is being handled legally and not firing someone and later firing him for the same/similar conduct or allegations when it becomes publicized and potentially adversely impacts the university. Smith was given a lot of rope and I'm sure the support to get his shyte together, but, as has been said, his body of work was not good enough to get through this round. There's absolutely nothing, certainly not legally, wrong with that or otherwise. Athletes are handled like adults and the coaches should be held to the same standard. That doesn't mean kicking them out immediately. It means assessing the particular situation and dealing with it. Zach had his chance(s). Urban wasn't wrong for not firing him sooner and he's not wrong for having fired him now.
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While I agree... IF he's lying about not knowing about 2015 (which I thought was highlighted by 11W that year) then what?
 
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