What's wrong with kids these days?

[FrancisSoyer]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101008/ap_on_re_us/us_bullying_one_town



I might be taking the wrong side of this argument, but these kids need to grow a thicker skin. There were bullies back when I was in school and nobody was killing themselves over it. I think the real problem here is that kids grow up thinking they are special and everything will be good. When they do hit some adversity they don't know how to react to it. It seems to be a generation thing with too may parents wanting to be their kids friends rather than parents.
I will not allow my unborn daughter to be like these douchebag kids that are offing themselves. She will have rules and there will be punishment for breaking them. I will get one of my Dad's old principal paddles and hang it on the wall like he did for me. One whack a year kept me in line. There will be no video games or social networking under my roof. Whatever the Facebook of 15 years from now looks like it won't be getting through my firewall. She will be heavily involved in sports. First, because she is going to be a giant. Second, because that is going to be the easiest way to get college paid for (like me and every male blood relative I have). I don't know what she'll do basketball, volleyball, golf, swimming, etc. Her choice but she will be doing something. Part of the problem with a lot of these kids is that they have too much free time on their hands.
Back to the article. My high school had 4-5 students die during my senior year. IIRC 2 in a car accident on Spring Break (something else my daughter will not be doing in High School), 1 or 2 in a fire after a night of drinking(ditto), and 1 choked himself while masturbating(triple ditto). All of these could be classified death while having a good time. I never heard that parents wanted to file a lawsuit against the school because they didn't stop the kids from planning these activities. There will always be bullies and everyone gets bullied at some time, but maybe these kids that are killing themselves just aren't cut out for our society. If you can't take a bully how are you going to take it when you get passed over for a job after school. Sometimes you have to fail several times before you succeed. If you kill yourself after failing once or twice maybe the rest of us are better off. Maybe these parent's should be looking in the mirror instead of looking at the school for blame.
Please don't ding me, I might kill myself and then my wife will sue BP.

So, who's fault is it? The kids or the parents? Maybe some of these kids have [censored]ty parents/no parents and get no encouragement/discipline at home. They have no one to turn to. Would you still blame the kid in this case? Reading your post I have a feeling your still going to say yes, especially if they didn't play sports.

 

[eightpointbuck]

I read this story the other day and my first thought was to wonder if the rules we have put in place in school have encouraged this situation. As the rules against fighting or conflict in school have become more strict or no tolerance, have we discouraged kids for standing up for themselves. Self defense should be a mitigating factor. Fighting is always the last answer, but for some bullies, in my personal experience, that's what ends up happening.

My dads advice always seemed to work for me. Never ever start a fight but if a bully starts one with you, make sure you are the one that finishes it. And finish it in public. Bullies need to be shamed in front of their friends to get the message. But this was back in my day-don't know if it applies in today's society. Sadly I will have to have this discussion with my kids soon, and I don't know what I will tell them.

 

[RockstarBuckeye]

My son just turned six and is in his first year of school. He came home one day stating another boy hit him in the back during recess. My wife took the don't start it finish route, but the bullying continued.

I was home for my 2 weeks of R&R leave shortly after this all started happening. I found out who the boy was, went to the school and made them feel two inches tall since they failed to intervene. I also confronted the parents ( easy to tell where the boy learned his behaviors) and made it known that If it didn't stop, I wouldn't [censored] around ......I'd simply beat their ass.

A few days later, I recived a call from the school. They informed me about the issues this boy was having and they're trying to get counseling sessions set up for him.

I said all of that to say this; children are a product of their environment. Too many times parents let their kids run wild.

Other areas I feel strongly about is violence shouldn't always be a last resort. There is a difference between defending yourself and standing up for yourself. I also believe in esaclation of force. If someone throws a rock at me, I'll return fire with a brick.


....just my 2 cents!!!!

 

[Muck]

there is a huge difference between hazing and bullying. hazing is a rite of passage as one enters a group on is or her own volition. one expects to be hazed. heck, attempted entrance into a group that is known to haze is a complicit endorsement of one's own hazing (within limits, of course). bullying, on the other hand, shows complete disregard for the victim. there is nothing inherently positive that the victim achieves by being bullied.

AIR RAID!!! YOU FRESHMEN BITCHES!!

...the students who bullied the Croatian girl walked up to her casket and were laughing at the funeral.

I'd probably be spending the night in the county jail after witnessing that.

 

[1997Buckeye]

Interesting numbers on that found here:

http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html

I know the table won't copy correctly, so go to the very last chart in the link. Rates among 15-19 y/o from early 2000's (7.3-8 per 100k) are double those from 50's-60's (2.7-3.6 per 100k). Noticeable bumps in 70's and 80's (5.9-8.5), and peak between 1990 and '95 (11.1-10.3). Many of the other age groups show comparatively little change, or a modest decline over the 53 year study, especially after age 35.

The Croatian girl's story reminds me of one from a few months ago. A 15 year old girl from Ireland, during her first year at a US HS, was harassed daily after she hooked up with a popular senior boy, and hung herself. I can see where she felt she didn't have anyone to turn to. She's not going to tell her parents, "Hey, I [censored]ed this guy three years older than me, and now everyone calls me a slut." She had to have felt totally isolated in a world where most people treated her like garbage.

Thank you for those stats. Teen suicide looks like an area that research Universities need more funding to get to the bottom of the problem. Part of it probably has to do with women leaving home and entering the workforce but there has to be more to it than that.

 

[1997Buckeye]

Why would you need to step in. I thought you said kids should just "suck it up"?

Thump,
As you see, I'm all over the place on this subject. It's difficult to put into words exactly how I feel without writing a dissertation. Kids should "suck it up" but to be a responsible parent, I need to help teach my child different ways to deal with these problems. I should continually help build their sense of self worth. Show them they are loved and respected by those that truly matter.

If any of my children ever try suicide, I will view it as a failure on my part.

 

[Mike80]

I'd probably be spending the night in the county jail after witnessing that.

Between this and the story about the idiots in Detroit harassing a dying girl, yeah, I'd be in jail for sure and it likely wouldn't be just for the night.

 

[Thump]

Part of it probably has to do with women leaving home and entering the workforce but there has to be more to it than that.

Possibly, but my guess is the amount of single parent families these days is a leading cause.

 

[Thump]

If any of my children ever try suicide, I will view it as a failure on my part.

I guess I can see that but many who commit suicide already have psychological problems that can't be cured by "sucking it up."

 

[scarletmike]

Exhawg, I'm sorry, but your post was pretty far off base. And I can say that with absolute certainty because I have personally struggled with thoughts of suicide for quite a while (and still do from time to time, as recently as...three weeks ago). While the circumstances that prompt such thoughts out of me are different than during my high school/middle school years, my string of thoughts invariably and inevitably involve thoughts of the years of being bullied day in and day out all the way from about 3rd grade through to 8th grade, when the bullying stopped being daily when I moved to Indiana and changed to a two or three times a week thing and kept lessening through HS.

It isn't the bullying that cause the thoughts, it is the thoughts that the constant bullying positively reinforces. Thoughts of inferiority, weakness, and worthlessness. This is especially harmful when it starts early and is a constant in a person's life. I can imagine the situation an immigrant being in would result in a similar state of mind as that of a person who was consistently bullied throughout their childhood.

I had a great group of people around me growing up between my family, the few friends who didn't pick on me, and people at my church(es). But that didn't change the fact that day after day growing up, the thought that I was inferior/weak/worthless was reinforced at school, and eventually outside of school. For some people (like myself), the encouragement and support of those around you just simply aren't enough. Suddenly when that person finds themselves in a high-stress or other situation where those thoughts can work their way back up, it can simply be too much for their mind to take. I can certainly understand, I've come close to that point on more than one occasion.

You simply cannot make rash and broad generalizations about a topic like this, and thankfully most everyone here recognizes that. Just thought I would try to provide a little insight from a point of view you don't often hear.

 

[BUCKYLE]

...my string of thoughts invariably and inevitably involve thoughts of the years of being bullied day in and day out all the way from about 3rd grade through to 8th grade, when the bullying stopped being daily when I moved to Indiana and changed to a two or three times a week thing and kept lessening through HS.

I gotta ask...not trying to be a dick....

Did you ever stand up to bullies?

I think at least part of the problem these days is the "Zero Tolerance" policies schools take towards fighting/violence. In my day, which wasn't THAT long ago, if you fucked with a kid enough, he was expected to at least take a swing at a bitch ass bully.

When I started at my new school in fourth grade (Utica, OH), there was a kid...much bigger than everyone else in the fuckin' school...and first day of school, we're waiting on the bus by the big mailbox area at the apt complex I lived in. He had spent the summer with his dad or whatever, so this was the first I'd seen of him. This douche comes up and starts demanding money from my friends, convieniently ignoring me, the one kid he didn't know. Well, he got around to my best friend at the time, and I told my dude not to give him shit. He tried to charge at me, I ole'd his oafish ass and swung him by his shirt into the mailboxes. Busted his face up pretty good. When I got to school, I had a teacher THANK me. These days, I'd have been suspended. We've pussified our kids to an extent (not saying that's the case with you), and by doing so, kids that used to fight back are now afraid to do so. Just my opinion.

 

[scarletmike]

I tried, at times. I was however raised (single parent, mom) that fighting was always the last resort, and I stuck to that for the most part. Of course, I have always been on the low end of the food chain as far as size/strength is concerned, so the few times I did try to hold my own as I got older...yeah, never worked. Usually ended in me being slammed against a locker/wall and being told I got off lucky.* I think my mom realized how literally I took things when I was in 8th grade and was being antagonized in the locker room after PE. Class ended (also the end of school) and I was royally pissed off. At that time I was in both cross country and track, so I had sufficient leg power, but instead of kicking the legs out from under the kid(s) who were antagonizing me, I - in my infinite wisdom - decided to take my anger out on the hallway brick wall. Of course that ended in a broken bone in my foot and me in a cast until I moved to Indiana. In...9th grade, an incident at my church occurred (a not so nice group of kids frequented the open gyms we had) where I decided enough was enough and again got slammed to the ground, got back up, was promptly slammed against a basketball post, and then against the wall (the adults were all conveniently inside the youth room, practically no one besides me and the group of antagonizers was in the gym).

Life has pretty much taught me that I don't fight back physically, I won't win those battles. Its not that I didn't want to stand up, but when you know you're the weakest link physically...

And no offense taken. I'm secure enough in what happened in the past to talk about it somewhat lightheartedly, but that doesn't mean the thoughts associated with and reinforced by those events are any less powerful when you're talking about someone in a depressed state of mind.

*Heck, there were times the first thing to happen in the morning at school would be getting pinned to the wall/locker for no apparent reason. Those were great starts to the day, let me tell you...

 

[JBaney45]

I'm just telling you man, the amount of garbage and venom that is spewed online that bleeds inside the school walls is absolutely unfathomable.

No doubt that the online thing creates another problem, however the internet is everywhere and you don't have so many incidents in 1 school district.

Sorry but if I had a kid that went to Mentor I would have pulled them out of that dump ages ago. The way those kids act is disgraceful and NOT a representation of how it is everywhere across the country

 

[Thump]

Exhawg, I'm sorry, but your post was pretty far off base. And I can say that with absolute certainty because I have personally struggled with thoughts of suicide for quite a while (and still do from time to time, as recently as...three weeks ago). While the circumstances that prompt such thoughts out of me are different than during my high school/middle school years, my string of thoughts invariably and inevitably involve thoughts of the years of being bullied day in and day out all the way from about 3rd grade through to 8th grade, when the bullying stopped being daily when I moved to Indiana and changed to a two or three times a week thing and kept lessening through HS.

It isn't the bullying that cause the thoughts, it is the thoughts that the constant bullying positively reinforces. Thoughts of inferiority, weakness, and worthlessness. This is especially harmful when it starts early and is a constant in a person's life. I can imagine the situation an immigrant being in would result in a similar state of mind as that of a person who was consistently bullied throughout their childhood.

I had a great group of people around me growing up between my family, the few friends who didn't pick on me, and people at my church(es). But that didn't change the fact that day after day growing up, the thought that I was inferior/weak/worthless was reinforced at school, and eventually outside of school. For some people (like myself), the encouragement and support of those around you just simply aren't enough. Suddenly when that person finds themselves in a high-stress or other situation where those thoughts can work their way back up, it can simply be too much for their mind to take. I can certainly understand, I've come close to that point on more than one occasion.

You simply cannot make rash and broad generalizations about a topic like this, and thankfully most everyone here recognizes that. Just thought I would try to provide a little insight from a point of view you don't often hear.

WOW!

Great Post Award if I've ever seen one.

 

[BUCKYLE]

I tried, at times. I was however raised (single parent, mom) that fighting was always the last resort, and I stuck to that for the most part. Of course, I have always been on the low end of the food chain as far as size/strength is concerned, so the few times I did try to hold my own as I got older...yeah, never worked. Usually ended in me being slammed against a locker/wall and being told I got off lucky.* I think my mom realized how literally I took things when I was in 8th grade and was being antagonized in the locker room after PE. Class ended (also the end of school) and I was royally pissed off. At that time I was in both cross country and track, so I had sufficient leg power, but instead of kicking the legs out from under the kid(s) who were antagonizing me, I - in my infinite wisdom - decided to take my anger out on the hallway brick wall. Of course that ended in a broken bone in my foot and me in a cast until I moved to Indiana. In...9th grade, an incident at my church occurred (a not so nice group of kids frequented the open gyms we had) where I decided enough was enough and again got slammed to the ground, got back up, was promptly slammed against a basketball post, and then against the wall (the adults were all conveniently inside the youth room, practically no one besides me and the group of antagonizers was in the gym).

Life has pretty much taught me that I don't fight back physically, I won't win those battles. Its not that I didn't want to stand up, but when you know you're the weakest link physically...

And no offense taken. I'm secure enough in what happened in the past to talk about it somewhat lightheartedly, but that doesn't mean the thoughts associated with and reinforced by those events are any less powerful when you're talking about someone in a depressed state of mind.

*Heck, there were times the first thing to happen in the morning at school would be getting pinned to the wall/locker for no apparent reason. Those were great starts to the day, let me tell you...

There's your problem. It's not about winning. It's about fighting. Bullies want an easy mark. They don't like working for their fear.

For christ's sake, haven't you ever seen Shawshank? :p