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- Thread starter OSUBasketballJunkie
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NOTREDAMECHIEF
Legend
ND may very well have trouble getting a top RB this year as most know ND has
a star freshman RB back on campus!
a star freshman RB back on campus!
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If thats the reason then why was the recruit considering ND before you guys fired TW?
Denial isn't just a river in Egypt domer, you guys were screwed up before but the Ty firing has gone ahead and etched it in stone. ND will be lucky to ever get back to the big time if this coach fails.
Denial isn't just a river in Egypt domer, you guys were screwed up before but the Ty firing has gone ahead and etched it in stone. ND will be lucky to ever get back to the big time if this coach fails.
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NOTREDAMECHIEF
Legend
Weis looks to be moving fast! Looks like..
OC -Former OLE MISS -Head Coach and Tenn. OC - Cutcliff
DC- Former Virginia DC - Golden
OC -Former OLE MISS -Head Coach and Tenn. OC - Cutcliff
DC- Former Virginia DC - Golden
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Carrol had HC experience, albeit a terrible one.
Thats my whole point for the ND faithful who are proclaiming themselves "back" already (go look at any ND board, they are saying it). The guys lack of HC experience and college recruiting experience should be a major concern.
I don't have the exact quote handy but I have seen both Ara Parseghian(sp) and Lou Holtz say on record that they had no idea how demanding the ND HC job was before they took it and they needed every ounce of their HC experience when they got there.
Now consider the stats I showed you up above and realize there are some major fundamental issues at ND that have been going on for the better part of a decade and I just don't see how you expect a novice HC to come in there and fix it in 4-5 years when he's taking a mulligan on his first recruiting class!!
When you consider ND has all their eggs in the Weis basket, I just don't see what all the excitement is about. If he can't do better than a 9-3 in his first 4 years they will be ready to fire him as well and they just won't be able to get any big name when they are working on their 5th coach in 12 years.
The ND nations fantasy of being an elite college football team dies harder than Rasputin, but another 4-5 years like the past 8 with yet ANOTHER coach and it will sink in to all but the most demented. ND's future as an elite rests with CW there is zero doubt about that and for all the reasons I listed above he is a huge gamble for them.
Thats my whole point for the ND faithful who are proclaiming themselves "back" already (go look at any ND board, they are saying it). The guys lack of HC experience and college recruiting experience should be a major concern.
I don't have the exact quote handy but I have seen both Ara Parseghian(sp) and Lou Holtz say on record that they had no idea how demanding the ND HC job was before they took it and they needed every ounce of their HC experience when they got there.
Now consider the stats I showed you up above and realize there are some major fundamental issues at ND that have been going on for the better part of a decade and I just don't see how you expect a novice HC to come in there and fix it in 4-5 years when he's taking a mulligan on his first recruiting class!!
When you consider ND has all their eggs in the Weis basket, I just don't see what all the excitement is about. If he can't do better than a 9-3 in his first 4 years they will be ready to fire him as well and they just won't be able to get any big name when they are working on their 5th coach in 12 years.
The ND nations fantasy of being an elite college football team dies harder than Rasputin, but another 4-5 years like the past 8 with yet ANOTHER coach and it will sink in to all but the most demented. ND's future as an elite rests with CW there is zero doubt about that and for all the reasons I listed above he is a huge gamble for them.
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When you have the idiot media still trumpeting the virtues of ND football at every opportunity, it isn't hard for fans to buy the hype. Hell, I was listening to various sportstalk radio shows while driving to Ohio yesterday...anyone else hear Beano Cook say ND would win a NC within the next four years? Unreal.Jaxbuck said:
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osugrad21 said:
I suppose they'll house the trophy next to Powlus's Heisman's?
I mean c'mon how much credibility can one fat, senile overly medicated human possibly lack? Beano has become a cartoon charachter, paint him purple and he's fucking Barney.
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smithlabs
Heisman
A while back I posted my theory about the decline of Catholicism affecting Notre Dame football. After a couple of quips and red chicklets I was left with the feeling that I didn't do a good job of expressing myself or my theory was just plain flawed. I have researched and pondered and now I am ready to pontificate. I now feel that the woes that are befalling Notre Dame are indisputably connected to fall of modern Catholicism.
[font=Times New Roman, serif]There are 20 million more catholics today than there were in 1965 but they don't show the same devotion to their faith. Catholic marriages have fallen in number by one-third since 1965, while the annual number of annulments has soared from 338 in 1968 to 50,000 in 2002. A 1958 Gallup Poll reported that three in four Catholics attended church on Sundays. A recent study by the University of Notre Dame found that only one in four now attend. Perhaps the most relevant statistic to Notre Dame football is the parochial school system. Almost half of all Catholic high schools in the United States have closed since 1965. The student population has fallen from 700,000 to 386,000. Parochial schools suffered an even greater decline. Some 4,000 have disappeared, and the number of pupils attending has fallen below 2 million – from 4.5 million. [/font]
The parochial school system historically produces top notch football squads and is as much of a recruiting pipeline to Notre Dame as Glenville is to Ohio State. Certainly looses half of your recruiting base can not help. Lets look at the recent performance of a tradition Ohio catholic football powers. Alex Boone, perhaps the highest touted Catholic recruit in Ohio isn't going to Notre Dame. St Ignatius seems to be loosing a step in their football program in general. In the late 80's they had a 39 game winning streak and won 3 national championships between 1989 and 1995. Not surprisingly, this era roughly corresponds to Notre Dame's last period of prominence. Now St Ignatius is loosing 4 games a season and it has been a decade since their last national championship. Even their three year hiatus from the state championship represents their longest absence in almost two decades. The Notre Dame football well does appear to be drying up.
Another thorn in the side of Catholics everywhere has been the priest sex scandal. My local Tucson diocese has recently declared bankruptcy. I doubt they are going to be giving many scholarships to needy football players who want to play in a Catholic school. The scandal has direct ties with Notre Dame. Here is an excerpt of an article about a boy, John Salveson, who was abuse while at Notre Dame. “In 1980, at age 24, I understood that the relationship with Father Huneke was more than just a strange aspect of my life. It was abuse, and it was having a major effect on my life as an adult. As I tried to deal with its impact through therapy, I began to think about what Father Huneke was currently doing. Was he still abusing other people? Was he still at Notre Dame? I became obsessed with stopping him and protecting any future victims. “ After reading this, I would think twice before sending my son and my booster money to Notre Dame.
How is the decline of the Catholic faith and parochial school system affect Notre Dame? In 1991 they signed a lucrative contract with NBC (Notredame Broadcasting Company) to broadcast Notre Dame football. Since then, their payout per game has decreased slightly but the audience has decreased by more than 100%. I think NBC is getting the short end of this stick. It is difficult to say which is harder to stomach, NBC's football subsidies or the BCS' special Notre Dame rules. In fact without the NBC's, BCS', and various Tom Lemming types propping up Notre Dame who knows how far they might have fallen. The problems with Notre Dame are much deeper than their head coach. The entire Notre Dame football apparatus it at risk. If NBC backs out of their contract or the BCS is restructured look out. We might be looking at the next University of Chicago.
Smithlabs
Reference:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-09-20-tucson-bankrupt_x.htm
http://www.tldm.org/News6/statistics.htm
http://www.ignatius.edu/athletics/
http://www.nd.edu/~ndmag/su2003/salveson.html
http://notredame.scout.com/2/237608.html
http://www.theamericancause.org/patanindexofcatholicismsdeclineprint.htm</pre>
[font=Times New Roman, serif]There are 20 million more catholics today than there were in 1965 but they don't show the same devotion to their faith. Catholic marriages have fallen in number by one-third since 1965, while the annual number of annulments has soared from 338 in 1968 to 50,000 in 2002. A 1958 Gallup Poll reported that three in four Catholics attended church on Sundays. A recent study by the University of Notre Dame found that only one in four now attend. Perhaps the most relevant statistic to Notre Dame football is the parochial school system. Almost half of all Catholic high schools in the United States have closed since 1965. The student population has fallen from 700,000 to 386,000. Parochial schools suffered an even greater decline. Some 4,000 have disappeared, and the number of pupils attending has fallen below 2 million – from 4.5 million. [/font]
The parochial school system historically produces top notch football squads and is as much of a recruiting pipeline to Notre Dame as Glenville is to Ohio State. Certainly looses half of your recruiting base can not help. Lets look at the recent performance of a tradition Ohio catholic football powers. Alex Boone, perhaps the highest touted Catholic recruit in Ohio isn't going to Notre Dame. St Ignatius seems to be loosing a step in their football program in general. In the late 80's they had a 39 game winning streak and won 3 national championships between 1989 and 1995. Not surprisingly, this era roughly corresponds to Notre Dame's last period of prominence. Now St Ignatius is loosing 4 games a season and it has been a decade since their last national championship. Even their three year hiatus from the state championship represents their longest absence in almost two decades. The Notre Dame football well does appear to be drying up.
Another thorn in the side of Catholics everywhere has been the priest sex scandal. My local Tucson diocese has recently declared bankruptcy. I doubt they are going to be giving many scholarships to needy football players who want to play in a Catholic school. The scandal has direct ties with Notre Dame. Here is an excerpt of an article about a boy, John Salveson, who was abuse while at Notre Dame. “In 1980, at age 24, I understood that the relationship with Father Huneke was more than just a strange aspect of my life. It was abuse, and it was having a major effect on my life as an adult. As I tried to deal with its impact through therapy, I began to think about what Father Huneke was currently doing. Was he still abusing other people? Was he still at Notre Dame? I became obsessed with stopping him and protecting any future victims. “ After reading this, I would think twice before sending my son and my booster money to Notre Dame.
How is the decline of the Catholic faith and parochial school system affect Notre Dame? In 1991 they signed a lucrative contract with NBC (Notredame Broadcasting Company) to broadcast Notre Dame football. Since then, their payout per game has decreased slightly but the audience has decreased by more than 100%. I think NBC is getting the short end of this stick. It is difficult to say which is harder to stomach, NBC's football subsidies or the BCS' special Notre Dame rules. In fact without the NBC's, BCS', and various Tom Lemming types propping up Notre Dame who knows how far they might have fallen. The problems with Notre Dame are much deeper than their head coach. The entire Notre Dame football apparatus it at risk. If NBC backs out of their contract or the BCS is restructured look out. We might be looking at the next University of Chicago.
Smithlabs
Reference:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-09-20-tucson-bankrupt_x.htm
http://www.tldm.org/News6/statistics.htm
http://www.ignatius.edu/athletics/
http://www.nd.edu/~ndmag/su2003/salveson.html
http://notredame.scout.com/2/237608.html
http://www.theamericancause.org/patanindexofcatholicismsdeclineprint.htm</pre>
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Smith, find the number of Catholic players on the 1988 NC squad and then compare that to the number on this year's squad. Do you really think there were more Catholics on the NC squad? The decline of Parochial schools has as much to do with the rising percentage of single parent households as anything you have mentioned. People cannot afford the tuition...
I just don't see Catholicism being any type of factor in the football program. Hell, ND even has a Muslim starting on the OL.
I just don't see Catholicism being any type of factor in the football program. Hell, ND even has a Muslim starting on the OL.
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NOTREDAMECHIEF
Legend
Jax- You must be a glass half empty kind of a guy! Some may very well go over-board but with the success Weis has had why wouldn't the ND faithfull have a little hope? Geez ya cant blame a guy for dreaming! I am sure you all had visions of sugar plums dancing in your head when Tressel came aboard as well!
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smithlabs
Heisman
If that's not a sign of the decline of Catholicism at Notre Dame I don't know what is.osugrad21 said:
It still sounds like you agree with me on some important points. Wether it is the (well documented?) decline of Catholicism or the rise of single parent families (perhaps because more Catholics are getting devoiced / annulled) the parochial school system is in trouble. The parochial schools are a historic recruiting system for Notre Dame. By my count 40 out of 106 players on the current ND roster are from parochial schools. What does that prove? Nothings. Even if ND still can recruit a full roster from these schools I find it hard to believe that they can find the same talent level with half the talent pool. ND has deeper troubles than their head coach.
Smithlabs
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buckiprof
21st Century Buckeye Man
We did Chief but the difference is that Tressel had won NC's at Y-Town State as the HC; not an assistant, but the head coach! He also could recruit players from FLA to Y-town State, and recruting is part of the job of a HC, which Weis has no experience at. Your attempt at comparing your delusions of ND grandeur thanks to Weis, to the Buckeye faithful visions of National Champs when we hired Tressel, is worse than comparing apples to oranges. (At least apples and oranges are both in the fruit family.)
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