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We Can Move Up To 3rd In All-Time Winning Percentages This Year!

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jwinslow said:
just like an official report out of the white is official, and that doesn't make it accurate.

You state that you do not care whether it is accurate all of the time, yet turn around and act like we are fools to not accept it as the definitive source for CFB history.
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"Fools?". Come on, that's overstating it. I've called nobody a fool, I'm disagreeing with you. Like I said, stassen's is different because his opinion is different. For the record, I have no problem with Stassen's opinion, but it's not official.
 
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Bucklion said:
OK, here's a non-rude question: There are 3 polls I can find widely recognized in 1970: the UPI, the AP, and the FWAA.
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Ohio State also recognizes the National Football Foundation and Hall of Fame which awarded us the title in 1970 (and they are the sole entity to award us the title in 1970).

Back to ktffan's "consensus" point, no way can the NCAA call it a consensus title when the NFFHOF is the only group to award it to us...
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
Ohio State also recognizes the National Football Foundation and Hall of Fame which awarded us the title in 1970 (and they are the sole entity to award us the title in 1970).

Back to ktffan's "consensus" point, no way can the NCAA call it a consensus title when the NFFHOF is the only group to award it to us...
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I believe these are called consensus titles because each organization has several members vote.
 
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ktffan said:
For better or for worse, for years the NCAA has considered the winner of one of the four majors as "consensus" champions.
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obviously for worse... and this is a primary example of why we're not infaturated with official records that make no sense. I'm not very interested in why they are called consensus titles. The two polls widely recognized as THE deciding polls did not pick OSU, therefore we are not champions, let alone 'consensus champions'. Examples like that one exemplify why 'official' is just an appealing word attached to the records, and not an indicator of their accuracy.
 
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ktffan said:
In 1970, Ohio State won the McArthur trophy as champions of the National Football Foundation. To the NCAA, that holds as much weight as the Football Writers and that's why Ohio State is listed as consensus champions. For better or for worse, for years the NCAA has considered the winner of one of the four majors as "consensus" champions.
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That makes officially zero sense. So you question the accuracy of Stassen and CFDW, but you are willing to accept the word of the NCAA, which apparently calls someone "consensus" for winning 1/4? That should mean there is more than 1 "consensus" champion in 1970, shouldn't it? Does that make sense? We therefore have 3 "consensus" champions for 1970????
 
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Bucklion said:
That makes officially zero sense. So you question the accuracy of Stassen and CFDW, but you are willing to accept the word of the NCAA, which apparently calls someone "consensus" for winning 1/4? That should mean there is more than 1 "consensus" champion in 1970, shouldn't it? Does that make sense?
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Should we take the word of everybody who puts information on a website? Does having a website make you an expert?
 
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ktffan said:
Should we take the word of everybody who puts information on a website? Does having a website make you an expert?
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Did I say it did? I didn't even say that questioning those sites was a bad thing. I just fail to see how you aren't as skeptical of the NCAA, who apparently has no grasp of the English language and awards multiple "consensus" championships. It's not true just because the NCAA says so. It's not even official because the NCAA says so, because there is no official DI football championship...hence the "MNC" (mythical national championship) one sees a lot in discussing it.
 
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Bucklion said:
Did I say it did? I didn't even say that questioning those sites was a bad thing. I just fail to see how you aren't as skeptical of the NCAA, who apparently has no grasp of the English language and awards multiple "consensus" championships. It's not true just because the NCAA says so. It's not even official because the NCAA says so, because there is no official DI football championship...hence the "MNC" (mythical national championship) one sees a lot in discussing it.
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Ok, so we have multiple sources, all saying different things. Who do we take as "right"? For me, I'll stick with the NCAA.
 
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Bucklion said:
That makes officially zero sense. So you question the accuracy of Stassen and CFDW, but you are willing to accept the word of the NCAA, which apparently calls someone "consensus" for winning 1/4? That should mean there is more than 1 "consensus" champion in 1970, shouldn't it? Does that make sense? We therefore have 3 "consensus" champions for 1970????
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I think the word "consensus" is getting lost in translation here. Deep breath everybody.

When the NCAA says 'consensus,' they mean 'Organization XYZ that has a national, peer membership that is respected among CFB officals.' This is to distinguish the NFF from, say, the national championship trophy award by Dennis Dodd.

The fact is, the NCAA does recognize Ohio State as 'consensus' national champions in 1970 because of the NFF vote, whereas the NCAA does not recognize a 'consensus' national championship in 1998 for the Jeff Sagarin vote. :wink2:
 
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ktffan said:
Ok, so we have multiple sources, all saying different things. Who do we take as "right"? For me, I'll stick with the NCAA.
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That was my point...there is no "right" because there is no official championship...period. The NCAA can recognize whatever it wants, however it wants, with whatever stupid vocabulary it wants (I see your point Dryden), but in the absence of an official championship like there is in every other sport, there is no "right". There could be a poll in basketball that said the National Champion last year was Duke...would that count? No, because there is an official champion, and it wasn't Duke. Football doesn't have this though, and never did, thus there is no reason to weight any opinion as more "right" than any other...including that of the NCAA.
 
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jwinslow said:
so you're siding with the organization which does not choose a national champion, ignoring the two established polls that did in that era?
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Having read some period pieces on the subject, I'll tell you that the Football Writers held more weight than the UPI poll did in the 60s. The UPI poll was known for some strange voting. Take Illinois in 1962. Ranked #20 with a 2-7 record. Because these are the standard today does not mean they were the standard back then. The NCAA traditionally supported the four polls mentioned back then and, out of tradition, still do today.
 
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ktffan said:
Ok, so we have multiple sources, all saying different things. Who do we take as "right"? For me, I'll stick with the NCAA.
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Sounds like you can just leave it at that and move on. You seem to take the word of NCAA, while others don't. That's pretty simple.

Now move on, and take your pompous attitude with you.
 
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Bucklion said:
That was my point...there is no "right" because there is no official championship...period.
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I'm sorry, I wasn't talking about championships. We can all agree that how championships are counted are screwy. I was asked if I would count Ohio State's in 1961 and I said yes, because it's one of the NCAA's main polls, that doesn't mean I take any count of national championships real seriously, because we all know it's messed up. I'm saying, yes I count it because the NCAA does, but frankly we are in agreement that it's messed up. Is that clear?

What I was asking about here, since we were talking stassen, was winning percentages. We've got two ad hoc sites and the NCAA that don't agree. Who do you consider to be "right"?
 
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