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We Can Move Up To 3rd In All-Time Winning Percentages This Year!

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And if we're completely agreed upon as National Champions (by the all-encompassing NCAA that doesn't award championships in DI football) in 1970 ktf-whatever-the-hell-your-name-is, why was everyone...EVERYONE...meaning TV people, NCAA people, OSU people, etc...in 2002 making such a big deal about Ohio State not having won a title since 1968?
 
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3yardsandacloud said:
Why are we covering this ground again?

No Stassen does NOT get his information from ANY of the sources you just listed. Until you can answer that question (where does it come from) you have NO business even commenting on the validity of his data. I suspect (from the 3 points you listed) you have no idea how the NCAA compiles it's information either.
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Did you say where it came from? Someone did. Yes, stassen got his information from those sources, you saying he didn't doesn't make it so.

The NCAA started compiling records way back when based on what information was given to them by the team. In 1937, they started compiling their own records base on information given to them by the teams. At some point they ruled "records" prior to 1937 as unconfirmable and so the "records" started with 1937 unless they could confirm the information reliable. For information based on the team and coaches, they take information submitted by each team. Any forfeits that are sanctioned by the NCAA are not counted for that team, other forfeits are ignored unless the team themselves count it.
 
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Bucklion said:
And if we're completely agreed upon as National Champions (by the all-encompassing NCAA that doesn't award championships in DI football) in 1970 ktf-whatever-the-hell-your-name-is, why was everyone...EVERYONE...meaning TV people, NCAA people, OSU people, etc...in 2002 making such a big deal about Ohio State not having won a title since 1968?
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Ohio State had not won a wire service championship since 1968, which is the information quoted when it was said. Ohio State's consideres themselves to be champion in 1970, and the NCAA lists Ohio State among the consensus champions. Either is good enough for me to count it.
 
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ktffan said:
Ohio State had not won a wire service championship since 1968, which is the information quoted when it was said. Ohio State's consideres themselves to be champion in 1970, and the NCAA lists Ohio State among the consensus champions. Either is good enough for me to count it.
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Soooooo.....in 1970 if the UPI said it was Texas, and the AP said Nebraska...what the hell criteria are being used to say OSU was the "consensus" champion by the NCAA? Doesn't consensus sort of imply people agree?
 
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ktffan said:
Ohio State had not won a wire service championship since 1968, which is the information quoted when it was said. Ohio State's consideres themselves to be champion in 1970, and the NCAA lists Ohio State among the consensus champions. Either is good enough for me to count it.
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but "everybody who counts" didn't count it.
 
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ktffan said:
Ohio State had not won a wire service championship since 1968, which is the information quoted when it was said. Ohio State's consideres themselves to be champion in 1970, and the NCAA lists Ohio State among the consensus champions. Either is good enough for me to count it.
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now the story is changing a little... personally I don't care what the school claims, USC claims about 400 titles, give or take a few. You were insisting that 'anyone that counted' used the NCAA's records. Looks as tho nobody that counted was around after OSU won the title in 03.
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks said:
You've found this? How exactly did you "find this" Particularly where the early days of College Ball are concerned.
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I've compared information give by the NCAA to information given by the schools. I've made the same comparison with Stassen. The NCAA is remarkably accurate considering the amount of info they give.

Your argument from authority has been shown to fail, get a new schtick.
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Simply put, I accept what is official. That you do not says more about you than it does me.

What's teh NCAA's explaination? they want to endorse non-compliance with their own rules?
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If the NCAA does not sanction the forfeits, than their rules have not been show to have been broken.





It' "Seems" a recognition to YOU... so what? Who did they "recognize as having won the 1990 Championship? Georgia Tech's coach or Colorado's coach...
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Both. The whole article, in fact, kind of stemmed from the fact that the prior two years had had "split" titles, where in the 15 or so prior the four major polls (UPI, AP, NFF, FW) were all in agreement.




As "A" champion? Son, explain to me how one body, in this case the NCAA, can declare multiple champions for the same sport, and in the same division. How many teams won the NCAA tourny this year? How many teams won the DIII championship last year?
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If you want their reasons, you'll have to ask them.

BTW, why is everybody so rude here? If you guys want to have a conversation, can't we have it without being so rude?
 
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ktffan said:
Did you say where it came from? Someone did. Yes, stassen got his information from those sources, you saying he didn't doesn't make it so.

The NCAA started compiling records way back when based on what information was given to them by the team. In 1937, they started compiling their own records base on information given to them by the teams. At some point they ruled "records" prior to 1937 as unconfirmable and so the "records" started with 1937 unless they could confirm the information reliable. For information based on the team and coaches, they take information submitted by each team. Any forfeits that are sanctioned by the NCAA are not counted for that team, other forfeits are ignored unless the team themselves count it.
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ktffan, if you want to act the part of an expert, then you need to do the research on your own. I've done it. I know the answer ... you do not. I will not GIVE it to you. It's obvious you 'parrot' much of your supposed 'expertise'. Oddly, I agree with you on several main points, but to dismiss other avenues of information without knowing the genesis of that information is intellectually dishonest. Go to Stassen or CFDW and dig around. Find out how and why their data is different from each other and from the NCAA ... then we can have a discussion. DON'T come back here with the same routine of playing "official" statistics against "ad hoc" statistics. At least until you know where the "ad hoc" statistics came from and how they are different from the "official" ones.

And never EVER play the game of attempting to equate "official" as "truthful".
 
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ktffan said:
I've compared information give by the NCAA to information given by the schools. I've made the same comparison with Stassen. The NCAA is remarkably accurate considering the amount of info they give.



Simply put, I accept what is official. That you do not says more about you than it does me.



If the NCAA does not sanction the forfeits, than their rules have not been show to have been broken.







Both. The whole article, in fact, kind of stemmed from the fact that the prior two years had had "split" titles, where in the 15 or so prior the four major polls (UPI, AP, NFF, FW) were all in agreement.






If you want their reasons, you'll have to ask them.

BTW, why is everybody so rude here? If you guys want to have a conversation, can't we have it without being so rude?
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OK, here's a non-rude question: There are 3 polls I can find widely recognized in 1970: the UPI, the AP, and the FWAA. Nebraska was #1 in 1970 in the FWAA and the AP, and Texas was #1 in the UPI. Again I ask you: because there IS NO OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP AWARDED BY THE NCAA IN DI FOOTBALL....what criteria could POSSIBLY be used to claim OSU as "official consenus" national champion in 1970, according to the NCAA or anyone else? And if there are no criteria and there is no official title awarded, why does the NCAA all of a sudden become the unquestioned authority? It isn't their championship to award.
 
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3yardsandacloud said:
ktffan, if you want to act the part of an expert, then you need to do the research on your own. I've done it. I know the answer ... you do not. I will not GIVE it to you.
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You aren't going to claim he got his information from Howell, are you? He had had his winning percentage program up well before he tapped into howell's data. That's NOT where he got his info.


Find out how and why their data is different from each other and from the NCAA ... then we can have a discussion.
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I know why their info is different from the NCAA. In some cases, it's just because they made a mistake.


And never EVER play the game of attempting to equate "official" as "truthful".
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Official is official. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
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ktffan said:
Official is official. Nothing more, nothing less.
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just like an official report out of the white is official, and that doesn't make it accurate.

You state that you do not care whether it is accurate all of the time, yet turn around and act like we are fools to not accept it as the definitive source for CFB history.
 
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Bucklion said:
OK, here's a non-rude question: There are 3 polls I can find widely recognized in 1970: the UPI, the AP, and the FWAA. Nebraska was #1 in 1970 in the FWAA and the AP, and Texas was #1 in the UPI. Again I ask you: because there IS NO OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP AWARDED BY THE NCAA IN DI FOOTBALL....what criteria could POSSIBLY be used to claim OSU as "official consenus" national champion in 1970, according to the NCAA or anyone else? And if there are no criteria and there is no official title awarded, why does the NCAA all of a sudden become the unquestioned authority? It isn't their championship to award.
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In 1970, Ohio State won the McArthur trophy as champions of the National Football Foundation. To the NCAA, that holds as much weight as the Football Writers and that's why Ohio State is listed as consensus champions. For better or for worse, for years the NCAA has considered the winner of one of the four majors as "consensus" champions.
 
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